XCCC Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Hi from a former Calvary Chapel/Campus Crusade evangelical. The short version of my deconversion is as follows: I grew up a nominal christian kid. In high-school I got involved with friends who were born-again and they took me to some Saturday night christian concerts at Calvary Chapel (an interdenominational church in So. Cal). I became a christian and devotedly sought god/christ for the next 10 years. After college I went on staff with Campus Crusade. I lasted only 3 years because every question I'd ever had about my faith surfaced as I tried so hard to be what I thought god wanted me to be. I began to hate god and I certainly hated the formulaic, dogmatic, hypocritical ministry. I had always had doubts about the god of the bible (verses that seemed awful, treatment of women, the fact that god had to be referred to with exclusively male pronouns, etc.) It took me a few years of being very angry, but I came out of my life as a christian as a very happy person. I feel like the truth has really set me free. I'm agnostic now. If there is any kind of god anywere it certainly isn't the god of the evangelical christian church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Welcome! My husband and I were involved with Crusade at one point, too. We were never on staff, thankfully... although my husband considered it. It's a crazy organization. Have you seen www.whichcircle.com? Check it out. It's a website that has some satirical comics of Crusade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCCC Posted April 24, 2007 Author Share Posted April 24, 2007 Thanks Pandora. I've only looked at a couple of cartoons on whichcircle so far. Bill Lite?! I'll have to check it out more fully. I'm very new to this website. I'm curious to read some of the discussions here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Hey, welcome, I was a member of a campus ministry in college that was very similar to campus Crusade and almost went on staff with it....they didn't let me join cause I wasn't "spiritual" enough...I guess they were right though hope you like it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oladotun Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 I feel like the truth has really set me free. I'm agnostic now. If there is any kind of god anywere it certainly isn't the god of the evangelical christian church.[/font] Welcome, welcome. I definitely understand your frustration. You can go to my other posts on this site to know more about where I am coming from. What I came to realize after about two decades of trying to live the dedicated and committed "born again" life (which brought more frustration than I could ever have imagined) is that the church is too legalistic and talks a lot about God's supposed grace and love but does not show it. It was this legalism that nearly drove me to utter insanity (no kidding, I had to go to a mental hospital because I was suicidal). The church loves to play the self righteous game by finding nototious "sinners" that they can look down on - like abortionists, homosexuals, fornicators etc - while simultaneously ignoring the matters of their own hearts that cause real damage - like unforgiveness, misogyny, hatred, biterness, pride etc. Think about this, the church was silent on the issue of slavery and racial discrimination for about 300 years, some using the so-called curse of Ham (on his son Canaan) as reasons why slavery was justified because blacks were an "inferior" race, and in their minds the Bible actually condones slavery (ironically, the Bible does not say anything against slavery, it tells slave to submit to their masters). The same Jerry Falwell who is so politically involved now once said during the Civil Rights movement that it was not the role of preachers to get involved in politics (he was insulting Martin Luther King Jr. who was assumed to be a phony by many in the conservative and religious white community. Yeah, he has a holiday in his name now, but many forget that he was once the most reviled man in religious circles in America) ..The religious Right, which is now praised as the bastion of "Christian values" got its real gusto from the opposition to integration during the Civil Rights era when the Tax exempt status of Bob Jones University (a private - at the time - all white school) was under the danger of being revoked becuase they would not admit black students. It took wars, a Civil rights movement and finally government leglislation for the evangelical conservative church in this country to change their position on the issue of the equality of blacks. And yet, they assumed that if you did not believe in their 'god" you were hell-bound..Not believe in a god that justifies slavery, and the subjugation of women, and I am hell bound? Give me a damn break! This just goes to show how religion can poison the minds of the followers. Was it not Oral Roberts that once said that if he did not collect a certain amount of money ($8 million) from his congregation, god told him that he would be killed. I would have rallied for evreyone in that church not to give, just so that I could see what would happen.."god" has become the prime instrument used for pimping people in this country these days. The give-to-get doctrine is such a popular thing in churches today. This is just one of the reasons why "Christianity" gets on my nerves. It is nothing but a social club for self-righteous nuts... I don't know what I believe these days, I guess you can say I am a doubter, or a skeptic...but I can tell you one thing, whatever I believe in, It is definitely not the god that is so popularly worshipped today! the god that only seems in making sure you pay your tithe so that you can get blessings "pressed down, running over." oladotun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbobrob Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Welcome, I was one of those people that campus crusaders badgered for several months when I first got to college. Biggest mistake was wearing my high school football shirt with my last name on the back. Easy to find me in the phone book, I was the only one. And they tried and tried to get me to their bible study. Once while working security two bible study people came in and asked me and the girl I was working with what religion we were. She said "Atheist". Stunned the bible thumpers. I then said "Taoist"....they were not prepared to face us, at all. Don't know what they expected at a big state university, but they were so badly unprepared for our answers, they left. I would have hated you then, BUT I'm glad you are here now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCCC Posted April 24, 2007 Author Share Posted April 24, 2007 Kuroikaze wrote: ..they didn't let me join cause I wasn't "spiritual" enough...I guess they were right though Wow, you made me remember my staff interview, Kuroikaze. I hadn't thought about that for YEARS. There was one guy from my campus staff team (when I was a student) who told me I was the LAST person the staff thought would go on staff. I guess I'm suprised I made it! Obviously I was not CCC material after all! Thanks for all the welcomes. And, Robbobrob, I did do some evangelism, but I really hated walking up to people and asking them creepy questions in order to attack them with the gospel. That always seemed cheesy and fake to me. Another reason I should never have been accepted on staff, I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Kuroikaze wrote:..they didn't let me join cause I wasn't "spiritual" enough...I guess they were right though Wow, you made me remember my staff interview, Kuroikaze. I hadn't thought about that for YEARS. There was one guy from my campus staff team (when I was a student) who told me I was the LAST person the staff thought would go on staff. I guess I'm suprised I made it! Obviously I was not CCC material after all! Thanks for all the welcomes. And, Robbobrob, I did do some evangelism, but I really hated walking up to people and asking them creepy questions in order to attack them with the gospel. That always seemed cheesy and fake to me. Another reason I should never have been accepted on staff, I guess haha, yeah I always had a problem with "cold turkey" evangelism as they called it. It always bugged me that I was expected to walk up to a stranger and interrupt their day...it just somehow seemed rude to me. Oh well, seems to me these campus ministries like campus crusades and student mobilization (the group I was in) aren't much better than cults... They get to you when you are a freshman in college, you have just left home and are generally totally unsettled and maybe a bit homesick. Also students are starting to think of themselves as adults, and don't have any parental oversight....its the perfect time to move in and manipulate a person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 Hi XCCC and welcome. I got converted by CCC. I met my wife in CCC. (SHe is still an ultra fundy now) I was a Christian 15 years. I went on the Santa Cruz summer project and many Christmas conferences etc. I wish I never heard of the "4 Spiritual Laws" now. I also considered staff. I'm glad you are out. Hi from a former Calvary Chapel/Campus Crusade evangelical. The short version of my deconversion is as follows: I grew up a nominal christian kid. In high-school I got involved with friends who were born-again and they took me to some Saturday night christian concerts at Calvary Chapel (an interdenominational church in So. Cal). I became a christian and devotedly sought god/christ for the next 10 years. After college I went on staff with Campus Crusade. I lasted only 3 years because every question I'd ever had about my faith surfaced as I tried so hard to be what I thought god wanted me to be. I began to hate god and I certainly hated the formulaic, dogmatic, hypocritical ministry. I had always had doubts about the god of the bible (verses that seemed awful, treatment of women, the fact that god had to be referred to with exclusively male pronouns, etc.) It took me a few years of being very angry, but I came out of my life as a christian as a very happy person. I feel like the truth has really set me free. I'm agnostic now. If there is any kind of god anywere it certainly isn't the god of the evangelical christian church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 XCCC, welcome. If you still hang around So.Cal and want to meet for coffee, let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbobrob Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 I wish I never heard of the "4 Spiritual Laws" now. Mind if I ask what they are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOkkata Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 I wish I never heard of the "4 Spiritual Laws" now. Mind if I ask what they are? I'm assuming he means these. It's a comon 'educational' tactic for christians. Four basic 'laws' that show up in a lot of different faiths. They might vary a little, from church to church, an extra one here and there, but should be pretty much the same where ever you go. These are more like, crazy christan laws of physics than govornmental laws. 1. God has a plan for you. 2. You, and every human, is a sinner. 3. Jesus is the only provision for man's sin. 4. Everyone must receive Jesus, [as Saviour.] Think of them as brainwashing upkeep activities. They translate into reality-speak like this. 1. You belong to the church. 2. You are naughty, and dirty. 3. You'll burn forever without us. 4. Listen to everything we say, and aquire new members. Here's a little [christian produced] flash movie that explains them. http://www.greatcom.org/laws/english/flash/ Amusing stuff if you've got the stomach for it. I found the 'Fact - Faiith - Feeling' train particularly amusing. 'Faith -feeling - fact' would be more accurate, but hey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCCC Posted April 26, 2007 Author Share Posted April 26, 2007 HanSolo wrote: If you still hang around So.Cal and want to meet for coffee, let me know. Man, I wish...I'm not in CA anymore. In the bible belt now that I'm not a christian!!! The Four Spiritual Laws is a little religious tract that a man named Bill Bright authored in the 60's (I think). He was the founder of Campus Crusade for Christ. The laws mentioned above by DarthOkkata are basically it. It reduces god down to a nice little formula for easy consumption. The Holy Spirit Booklet is a winner also. How to formulaicly walk in the power of the holy spirit. Even in the throes of my religiosity I never understood that booklet. The god of crusade is incredibly small. And (lazily) very dependent on people to do his work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 Did you ever use "the Bridge" illustration., we used to use that in evangelism all the time...It was stupid, I remember thinking so even back in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 HanSolo wrote: If you still hang around So.Cal and want to meet for coffee, let me know. Man, I wish...I'm not in CA anymore. In the bible belt now that I'm not a christian!!! It's a bummer isn't it. When I lived in the agnostic/atheist riddled Sweden, I was a hardcore fundamentalist Christian. "True" Christians probably account for 5-10% really. Usually statistics say the Sweden have a high number of Christians, but that's because you are registered to the Swedish Church at birth, so the number of registered members are whopping 90% or more, and you have to send in paperwork to un-register. But of those 90% very few are active, and many atheists and agnostics never care for un-registering. I think 70% are non-believers. So consider that I were a member of a very extreme evangelical group. Maybe 5-10,000 members in the whole country. I was the only active and believing evangelical Christian in my class of 30 students, pretty much from elementary and up to highschool. A few where active Church of Sweden members, but that was it. Church of Sweden is very liberal in its views and wouldn't be approved as "True Christian" by most religious here in US. Then I had to move to USA, and I see a huge number of active church goers and the evangelical and fundamentalist kind can be find in every corner... And what happens? I lose my faith and become an atheist! Damn it. Do I always have to go against the grain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughtyhamster Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 A few months ago I had an encounter with the Campus Crusade people and had to lie through my teeth to get them off of my ass. Luckily I had told them how I was "saved" at fifteen years old and they were saying "praise jesus!" Well I didn't tell them the day I was saved was also the day some fucker of a youth pastor put a curse on me in the name of Jeebus. Luckily that day an acquaintance of mine interrupted us as she had a personal problem and needed my advice. Anyway while this lady and I discussed her problem a guy carrying a skateboard was stopped by the CC thugs and they asked what religion he was. He said "Jewish" and all they could do was use a bunch of thinly veiled bullshit with him. He finally said "You know what I need to go. I had a brother who was killed four months ago by someone who probably was a Christian, so keep your shit to yourself!" and got on his skateboard and left. I figured out they really hit a nerve with him so I grabbed a brochure and said "Ive got to go to class." before I left though I just did that to keep them from trying thier brainwashing on me. After getting to class I snuck the brochure in the trash as I do any religious brochures I'm given at school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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