Faith, Family, Country These Are The Things That Are Important.

[Warrior_of_god]

Are, Faith, Family and Country important above everything else we as humans and citizens experience in our lives. Any why country? A Country is just a geographic region hemmed in by lines on a map. Family is just a group of people who are supposed to help with problems and life in general as well as be teachers and guide younger members of the family in life. Faith, well why is that important at all? Believing something without evidence is foolish, having faith in a country is just patriotism under a different name, and patriotism has led to very bad things. If patriotism is supposed to be good then why would it lead to a man betraying his nation for nearly a decade? </rant> (before it turns into an anti-patriotism rant)

[R. S. Martin]

I can think of two answers:

 

1. Tribal society: Survival depended on family. Family seldom meant father, mother, kids. In some tribal societies the man joined the tribe of the woman he "married" or had kids with. In other societies the woman joined the man's tribe. Acquiring food, i.e. the hunt, required cooperation among a group of males; the women had their part, too. Keeping the kids alive was one of their tasks. Some Christians would say they lived as a herd of cattle--full-blooded brothers and sisters (mating with the same person exclusively for life) probably didn't happen all that much in some tribes. There were probably as many "rules" as there were tribal societies.

 

2. Control and other selfish reasons: Need we even discuss this???

 

About a man betraying his own country--if you mean Bush invading other people's homelands for his own selfish reasons--I think that is where the God of the OT comes in handy. Allah serves the same purpose. In my study of religion, esp. fundamentalism, I have been shocked at the extent to which some people use the OT for a model. One author differentiated between pacifist and other denominations. Pacifists apparently go more by the NT while those who believe in defense of the homeland and theocracy go by the OT.

 

Not much in this post that is going to solve your problem, I'm afraid. Maybe just getting it out there on the screen where you could see it served that purpose.

[Kurari]

I think family and country sort of run along the same mentality. All we have is each other, and we're social animals who draw together with the common need for the warmth and comfort of people who love us and will protect and support us in hard times. Country is sort of an extension of that. Not as intimate, but standing together as a country is necessary sometimes to protect your home, culture, and livelyhood.

 

Faith - Faith can also mean loyalty to a person, people, or institution, or having confidence in one's own or other's abilities. It doesn't necessarily have to be about God or religion.

 

Our country has seen greedy and dangerous wannabe despots in office before, and it's still survived without turning into complete dystopia. I rather enjoy the people, life, and culture that I have, so I gladly stand for my family, country, and faith.

 

'Cause where else am I going to go with people or governments that is not subject to stuff I disagree with? I'd sure rather live here than China, Ireland, Congo, or the Middle East.

[Lycorth]

Faith, family, and country are only "important" if the individual can derive worth from them, and also only if they are positive and beneficial to the individual. Try telling someone who lives under an oppressive regime that "country" is important or a person in an abusive family that "family" is important, and you'll get a very different answer than you would from those who live in nice places and have good relatives.

[Warrior_of_god]

Faith, family, and country are only "important" if the individual can derive worth from them, and also only if they are positive and beneficial to the individual.

I agree with the first part but not the second. Iraq under Saddam was important to everyone, but not in a good way. Saddam was the government, the government and it was important all through the country. Saddam was an important person.

 

I think family and country sort of run along the same mentality. All we have is each other, and we're social animals who draw together with the common need for the warmth and comfort of people who love us and will protect and support us in hard times. Country is sort of an extension of that. Not as intimate, but standing together as a country is necessary sometimes to protect your home, culture, and livelyhood.

I like that. It is necessary sometimes but country can also be a bad thing, look at Communist Russia, Pol Pot or Nazi Germany.

 

Not much in this post that is going to solve your problem, I'm afraid. Maybe just getting it out there on the screen where you could see it served that purpose.

It helped.

[Lycorth]

I agree with the first part but not the second. Iraq under Saddam was important to everyone, but not in a good way.

 

But that still makes it important, as you went on to admit. As with your Saddam example, what is important to an individual can be pretty shitty stuff.

[Vigile]

When I was in India I had some time to observe the homeless dogs on the beach. Small packs of them would sit under the beach chairs, and if someone came walking down the beach with their pet dog, the dogs would run out from under the chairs, bark and snarl at the intruder that dared walk across their property. Each pack had a small area of property and dogs from other packs didn't dare cross the line into other territory as they knew the consequences.

 

Nationalism isn't much different. I see two ways to look at this. Either it is an inate trait bred into our genetics that has roots that stretch back millions of years (undoubtably)...

 

or,

 

...those who are most nationalistic are merely controled by their reptilian instincts as they have not evolved through education and/or don't have the IQ to rise above their natural traits and choose a more dignified, rational perspective.

 

Family can find its roots in evolution as well, but it still has a more important role to play in modern man than territorialism does. Children are still very vulnerable in this world and need familial ties to survive past the long vulnerable age.

 

Faith is just religious nonsense.

[Warrior_of_god]

I agree that nationalism is just another animal instinct we show in only slightly more civilized ways. The whole reason I brought patriotism and its factors up as because of something Robert Hanssen said. He claimed that one reason he spied for the Russians was to show the FBI that they really WERE vulnerable and, by extension, the US. In one of his letters to his "Dear Friends" he likened the US to a "retarded child" calling it "powerfully built but young and immature". This mans nationalism was interesting, he loved the US, however, he betrayed it. He betrayed it so it would be better off, security wise later. I, for one, find this to be an odd thing.

[Vigile]

I agree that nationalism is just another animal instinct we show in only slightly more civilized ways. The whole reason I brought patriotism and its factors up as because of something Robert Hanssen said. He claimed that one reason he spied for the Russians was to show the FBI that they really WERE vulnerable and, by extension, the US. In one of his letters to his "Dear Friends" he likened the US to a "retarded child" calling it "powerfully built but young and immature". This mans nationalism was interesting, he loved the US, however, he betrayed it. He betrayed it so it would be better off, security wise later. I, for one, find this to be an odd thing.

 

I would just call this Bob's twisted rationalization.

[Warrior_of_god]

I would just call this Bob's twisted rationalization.

True, but it still is a mark against patriotism in my book.

[HuaiDan]

Go against faith, family or country, and guess what you are? A dirty traitor, that's what.and you7 know what happens to traitors? They don't get gassed, lethal injection, or the firing squad.....they get hanged. So best just to keep your complaints to yourself, take the rifle when they hand it to you, and charge into the meat grinder...in the name of god, country, and family.

[Taphophilia]

I'd like to point out, that in all actuality, the founding fathers of the US were traitors. The fate of traitors depends on who wins.

 

It's a hand-me-down of, God, King, and country. This is from the belief of sovergnty of royalty; they were appointed and annointed by god. If the ruler was bad, god was punishing the people. If the ruler is good, god had found favor with the people. It keeps the people in line and loyal without questioning the whims of the ruler.

[Vigile]

I'd like to point out, that in all actuality, the founding fathers of the US were traitors. The fate of traitors depends on who wins.

 

 

Exactly Taph. And people in general don't see this mistake in logic when they consider the position of the "insurgents" in Iraq either. If they eventually win, they will be hailed as patriots. Right now we are viewing them the same way the British viewed our own patriots in 1776.

[Taphophilia]

Exactly Taph. And people in general don't see this mistake in logic when they consider the position of the "insurgents" in Iraq either. If they eventually win, they will be hailed as patriots. Right now we are viewing them the same way the British viewed our own patriots in 1776.

 

I consider them hero's no matter how it turns out. It says so much for the Iraqi people. Two wars waged against them by a "super power", Saddam, US sanctions. Yet, they are not a defeated people. I only hope history will see it this way.

[Warrior_of_god]

I only hope history will see it this way.

Our history wont, their own may.