I've Never Supported The Iraq War.

[Lightbearer]

I'd thought I'd throw that out there for everyone just to clarify where I stand on it. Some people here seem to accuse me of supporting things I don't, so this is refutation for that.

 

I don't support the war, I support ending it but not for the same reasons as others.

 

I've never supported Bush, I still don't, and I don't think I ever will.

 

I do support the idea of the War on Terrorism, however, I think it's not even been waged and that's why it's a major failure. I think the Republicans are too blame for this. We need for fight Islam as a political force, and the states who sponsor the terrorism it produces. The evidence about Saddam supporting terrorism is not very sufficient, at least from what i've seen.

 

Althought I don't support the Iraq war, I think some good has come out of it, that at least Saddam Hussien is dead and Iraq could have a better future, however, that does look grim. It's in the hands of the people know. It's not our responsibility now within our self-interest to bring democracy to these people.

 

Let me reiterate and clarify -- I support ending Islamic Totalitarianism (or Facism) as a threat to the lives of U.S. citizens and Western Civilization. They can practice Islam all they want, they can blow up each other all they want (no, that's not an edorsement and I don't agree with it) but, in the political context, don't get American citizens involved.

[Thurisaz]

Much truth in there, I have to admit. However, as long as shrubbenführer & co provide such a convenient target for is-lame-ist hate preachers to rant against, I'm afraid merely taking a position of "don't bother us and we won't bother you" won't work. The damage (brainwashing) has already been done, and one way or the other the world will have to deal with those braindead hordes. Well, make that one war or another, for I'm afraid there won't be a peaceful way.

[Taphophilia]

I don't support "war on terror", not in a conventional way at least. Al Quida was a threat prior to 9/11. It's been a threat for long, long time. Do you think the Bush Administration is the first to have to deal with them? Obviously, they grossly mishandled the situation prior to and after 9/11.

[Grandpa Harley]

TWAT is the Orwellian War Without End... An amorphous enemy that maybe like THRUSH or may be a rag tag bunch of nobodies who are willing to die for no clear aim other than to destroy their 'enemy'...

[♦ nivek ♦]

Moozies have been at war with uS since Tripoli. Figure since the America's colonization by the Whites and before, Izlame has been at war with everyone.

Treaties, 'making nice', playing fair and pretty simply forstall the day that the izllamers become popup targets closer to your front door.

 

Ron Paul nailed it correctly, we are collecting the blowback from our heavy handed meddling with the 'WOGs'... NOW, we will end up having to play their games here in the Americas all too soon..

 

Foolish to think that that branch of the sand dieties followers have been, or ever will be *peaceful*. Continually given reason and ability to drive their crusades of conquer and kill to any place they can establish colonies, we will nicely allow iz-lame to flow into Occidental homelands..

 

I for one will pay my impending dhimmitude in copper coated hi-vel lead..

 

kFL

[Grandpa Harley]

If the British Empire, the various Euro Trash, and the Teddy Roosevelt Govt had actually played straight, rather than doing what the USGOV did to the Amerinds and the British Empire did to every non white they met, which was 'we come in peace (shoot to kill)' we'd not have this problem now... TBH I don't see the problem of the Barbarian at the gates... but I'll be long dead by the time the Empire crumbles... what goes around comes around, and despite all the hand wringing about how terrible, or what a shootist blaze of glory we're going to die in our fate has been earned with every defaulted treaty and every landgrab we made... I really don't see the problem... Civilisations fall... welcome to a turning point in history, and the dawn of a new dark age...

[Grandpa Harley]

Vegetarians never bother to accommodate my dietary requirement for good steak...

[Lightbearer]

I don't support "war on terror", not in a conventional way at least. Al Quida was a threat prior to 9/11. It's been a threat for long, long time. Do you think the Bush Administration is the first to have to deal with them? Obviously, they grossly mishandled the situation prior to and after 9/11.

 

 

That's one point of contention I have with the current administration as well. As the handling after 9/11 goes i'd say Bush has done very little to eliminate the threat. Admittely, a few more attacks have been delayed but the people behind them still wish to harm America. Al-Qaida isn't the only threat to America. States that sponsor terrorism are the biggest problem with this whole situation. However, I don't like how Bush and the conserative pundits who support him have down played Bin Laden and turn around and started negotiating with Iran even though before and after 9/11 they have been recognized at the biggest state supports of terrorism. There is still on going evidence that they supply troops and weapons to fight our own soilders in Iraq!

 

Supposively this makes Bush "tough on terror" I say it makes him a pragmatic coward with no back-bone.

[Lightbearer]

I think MC Hammer generally get's my point across.

 

 

Except I didn't really support the war going into it. The reasons are actually different for that, I was kind of alot different person 4 years ago.

 

I still don't buy into the whole thing about this war being fought for oil. Seriously, Russia has a huge supply of oil, estimated to be larger then Saudi Arabia's, why didn't we invade them if we wanted bad enough to invade a country for it? We are sitting on top of tons of oil in Alaska too. It's Marxist stupidy.

 

As i've said before, the proper fight is with Iran, but if war with Iran is fought like this war then it would be better not to fight it at all. Bringing the troops home is the best bet for right now, strike against the terrorist groups at best as can be done and retreat for now. Recoup and have everyone on board for Iran. No lies, no bullshit. Just plain and simple, ending the Iranian regime and seperating church and state so they can't supply these jihadists anymore. We have the power to do this rather quickly and avoid alot of bloodshed of our own soilders.

 

Sadly, I think they would rather deal with the constant threat all the time then ending it.

[Grandpa Harley]

Because Russia already has nukes pointing at you, that's why they didn't invade Russia... Sheesh, what do they teach in Fortress Amerika?

[Vigile]

Because Russia already has nukes pointing at you, that's why they didn't invade Russia... Sheesh, what do they teach in Fortress Amerika?

 

Believe me, what this guy is saying in no way represents what is taught in the US. The US education system has many flaws, but even it doesn't deserve to be lumped in with this guy's theories.

[Grandpa Harley]

that's it... take irony and make it an Ad Hom whydonchya?

[Lightbearer]

Because Russia already has nukes pointing at you, that's why they didn't invade Russia... Sheesh, what do they teach in Fortress Amerika?

 

Believe me, what this guy is saying in no way represents what is taught in the US. The US education system has many flaws, but even it doesn't deserve to be lumped in with this guy's theories.

 

Yep. The education system is not only flawed, it is a flaw all together. They try to tell me that all the problems in the universe are caused by the fact that my country has more rich people in it then other countries. I guess that doesn't really jive with my "theories" that the America and a coalition of other countries didn't invade Iraq for the oil there.

 

It's crazy I know, considering the fact that the "the war is for oil" has been proven beyong a doubt and is 100% and accurately represents reality.

[Lightbearer]

Because Russia already has nukes pointing at you, that's why they didn't invade Russia... Sheesh, what do they teach in Fortress Amerika?

 

 

Well, wasn't that the pressumption about Iraq? That they had WMDs point at us? Didn't seem to deteriate them one bit though.

 

 

It might have something to do with the fact that Russia is considered an "ally"... although, personally, I don't really trust 'em. At least until someone replaces Putin.

[Japedo]

Because Russia already has nukes pointing at you, that's why they didn't invade Russia... Sheesh, what do they teach in Fortress Amerika?

 

 

Well, wasn't that the pressumption about Iraq? That they had WMDs point at us? Didn't seem to deteriate them one bit though.

 

 

It might have something to do with the fact that Russia is considered an "ally"... although, personally, I don't really trust 'em. At least until someone replaces Putin.

 

LB, First of all WMDs are not the same as Nuclear weapons. Second of all, Iraq had no WMD's and "if" they did... they didn't have the technology to send them all the way over to America. Even Powell said as much when he was attempting to BS Americans into this joke of a war. The US Government damn well knew this then. Their propaganda at the time was he was going to get the capabilities if he wasn't removed. He was hiding stuff smuggled in by the terrerist.. (in W speak ) .. so on and so forth.

 

A few slide show shots of empty buildings and a who bunch of Bullshit spewing from every direction about potential WMD's well.. it's no wonder many were confused.

 

 

We aren't going to pick a fight with people that can actually defend themselves. Haven't you learned that yet?

 

 

ETA: Ummm, LB I believe GH was typing about the cold war...

[Lightbearer]

LB, First of all WMDs are not the same as Nuclear weapons. Second of all, Iraq had no WMD's and "if" they did... they didn't have the technology to send them all the way over to America. Even Powell said as much when he was attempting to BS Americans into this joke of a war. The US Government damn well knew this then. Their propaganda at the time was he was going to get the capabilities if he wasn't removed. He was hiding stuff smuggled in by the terrerist.. (in W speak ) .. so on and so forth.

 

A few slide show shots of empty buildings and a who bunch of Bullshit spewing from every direction about potential WMD's well.. it's no wonder many were confused.

 

 

We aren't going to pick a fight with people that can actually defend themselves. Haven't you learned that yet?

 

 

ETA: Ummm, LB I believe GH was typing about the cold war...

 

I know, it was more of a joke. The thing about Russia was mentioned because of the war "war for oil" thing and I wanted to make a note about how Russia and other coutries have oil and we don't invade them, so it's dumb assumption.

 

That's another thing about this war and the Administration. I don't think they lie to us as much as they lie to themselves. They wanted to believe their were WMDs, they still do, so when a counter-point pops up they place "IM NOT LISTENING, IM NOT LISTENING!" I call it self-delusion and less of a deliberate attempt to decieve. Plus, the media trumped it up as such too and everyone in Congress believed it as well. The damage is done all the same though, worse so because of the incompetence displayed by Bush.

 

You used some interesting words in your sentence though. Honestly, we are the ones who aren't defending ourselves, that's why everyone wants to pick a fight. Yeah, and before you say it, I know Iraq wasn't a threat, i'm not refering to them.

[Lightbearer]

Much truth in there, I have to admit. However, as long as shrubbenführer & co provide such a convenient target for is-lame-ist hate preachers to rant against, I'm afraid merely taking a position of "don't bother us and we won't bother you" won't work. The damage (brainwashing) has already been done, and one way or the other the world will have to deal with those braindead hordes. Well, make that one war or another, for I'm afraid there won't be a peaceful way.

 

 

Thanks for understanding, bro. Alot of damage has been because Bush doesn't even admit that we are fighting against religious people. It hits too close to home. As i've said before, there is a way to end this and it has to start with Iran and hopefully end there as well.

[Grandpa Harley]

Russian is a long term 'enemy' in an oil war, since, cold war or no, they still control the second largest nuclear arsenal, and most of it still targets the US... From memory, most of it goes over the north pole... at balistic missle speeds about two minutes away from Chicago, New York etc... Russia will remain an economic target for the foreseeable future.

[Vigile]

I know, it was more of a joke. The thing about Russia was mentioned because of the war "war for oil" thing and I wanted to make a note about how Russia and other coutries have oil and we don't invade them, so it's dumb assumption.

 

No, it's just a dumb analogy. Russia is not defensless. How is this fact so lost on you?

[Grandpa Harley]

Look on the bright side, now Saddam's gone there are low level WMD in the form of Chlorine Gas bombs now being used against the British and American troops there... and our fearless leaders are now trying to do what the French did in Vietnam...

[HuaiDan]

I know, it was more of a joke. The thing about Russia was mentioned because of the war "war for oil" thing and I wanted to make a note about how Russia and other coutries have oil and we don't invade them, so it's dumb assumption.

 

No, it's just a dumb analogy. Russia is not defensless. How is this fact so lost on you?

 

 

Is anybody implying Russia is defenseless? I'm confused.

 

edit: Figgered it out.

Yeah, LB, dude, if the US were desperate enough to invade a country for oil, regardless of whether they actually did, it would be incredibly , eh, unprofitable to invade anywhere in the former Soviet Union. Counterproductive even.

[Lightbearer]

I know, it was more of a joke. The thing about Russia was mentioned because of the war "war for oil" thing and I wanted to make a note about how Russia and other coutries have oil and we don't invade them, so it's dumb assumption.

 

No, it's just a dumb analogy. Russia is not defensless. How is this fact so lost on you?

 

 

I never said it was defenseless, why is this lost on you?

 

I only used Russia in the example because they have a huge oil supply. The point still stands valid, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, and alot of other Middle Eastern and Latin America countries have oil and are on the same level of military might as Iraq was, and yet we are not invanding them for their oil. And again, we have oil in America, if we were so desperate we could of opened up the places that are being blocked from drilling... that would of been alot simpler.

 

The point is, the war for oil concept is ridiculous.

[Vigile]

The point still stands valid, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, and alot of other Middle Eastern and Latin America countries have oil and are on the same level of military might as Iraq was,

 

Puppet, we are trying, puppets and more puppets. The better question to ask is why didn't we just try to control Iraq with CIA ops like we have used and attempted to use in other countries?

 

I'm tired of debating this with you though. I was merely pointing out the flaw in your arguement, which you have now disingenuously denied making.

 

Believe what you want to believe.

[Guest drekmac]

(hijacks thread from Russian tangent) sorry

 

One thing that seems to have been left out of the blowback argument is our massive support for Israel and their occupation of Palestine. They came in sanctioned by western civilization, took over their “holy land”, set up an apartheid government and legal discrimination, and treated the rightful owners of the nation as second rate citizens. Now the middle east is not one unified country, but they are unified by the dominate religion, Muslim. They see the way their religious brothers are being treated and won’t stand for it. How would we like it if the Native Americans decided to take back their ancestral lands and a rich country or group of rich countries decided to give them billions in aid and weapons? Suppose they only decided to take back the states with names derived from Native American words. That’s about half of the U.S. What would the rest of the U.S. think of that? Would they say, ”Oh, well they have claim to those states, so I guess it’s ok.” No, there would be bloodshed all around. Granted the scenario is unlikely, since we are the strongest nation in the world, but as the strongest nation we have the responsibility to put our selves in the places of the other nations around the world to see where they are coming from. As Ron Paul said,” They don't come here and attack us because we're rich and we're free. They come and they attack us because we're over there.” And by supplying Israel we are basically "over there" even if we pull troops out of the middle east.

Also, how can we tell Iran that they can’t have nuclear weapons when we have the biggest stockpile in the world and their biggest enemy, Israel, is presumed to have nuclear weapons? Why not disarm everyone, or at least all the middle eastern countries, and not leave one country with them. I believe that if Israel would sign the non-proliferation treaty, it would go far towards peace in the middle east.

[Grandpa Harley]

Israel wants peace on those terms like a fish wants a bicycle...