Stubborn Christians

[Guest _mike]

I don't know what it is about Christians that makes them so stubborn and stuck in their inconsistent and fallacious views. No matter how logically convincing the arguments are against their beliefs, how absurd their beliefs are mad out to be, and how irrational their viewpoints and notions of beliefs are shown to be, they just don't want to give it a rest. It’s the "believe 'till you die" mentality that I find to be all the more pervasive in most Christians that I encounter.

 

I have spent a great deal of time over the past few months, when I have made my disbelief public, explaining to Christians my position and providing them with why theirs simply doesn't stand after being scrutinized. But my efforts have been to no avail. Even after I show them all the pseudo-science, false history, incorrect prophecy, and other absurdities in the Bible, they are strangely ever more relentless to convince me otherwise. So I let them try, but they fail every time and thereafter are incapable of doing anything else but hiding behind their projections of sorrow for me, mentioning or feeling within themselves that God will one day reveal himself to me in a way that they apparently cannot explain. It’s patronizing and extremely disrespectful to end a conversation of this kind in such a manner.

 

I'll give them some credit: they simply can't support their beliefs. But why are they so incapable then of admitting that they really don't know that this God they believe in really exists? If they can't provide valid grounds for it, why do they still hold on to the idea? Why are they so intolerant of the opposing views? Why can't they accept it when their views are at fault?

 

Am I wasting my time with these people? Should I just give it a rest and let them view me as they please, however negative that may be? I'm the type that hates to let the other party get away with anything they are at fault with, so this would take a little effort on my part. I'm really interested to hear of some tactics some of you here may have used in the past that have actually worked to get the other party to actually take these matters seriously and begin to question their beliefs as they ought. Anyone?

[Evolution_beyond]

All those christians that are capable of thinking their way out of the nonsense will doubtless have already done this, probably in their late teens. It's only those that are blinded by their own stubbornness that remain in the church these days - and they are quite possibly beyond help

[Amethyst]

I think part of the reason they don't take the views seriously is because they don't really worship a deity, they worship their own idealized picture of what god should be like. So when someone tells them they are wrong, they don't want to give up their ideas because it's like giving up part of themselves. My two cents, anyway.

 

IMO it isn't worth it wasting time on them. For most of them, debating will only make their own beliefs stronger to them. For a fundy, even if you give them hard scientific evidence they are wrong (for example, the bones of bird-like dinosaurs that were recently found), they still won't take their heads out of the proverbial sand. So it's not really worth it. Myself, I'd rather spend time with a liberal Christian than a fundy who thinks I'm going to burn forever in the afterlife, anyway.

[Legion]

Hey Mike and welcome to the forums.

 

I won’t venture to tell you what you should or should not do. I’ll leave that for you to decide. As for me however, I generally don’t engage Christians with the intention of encouraging them to examine their beliefs critically. I think that in many instances they want to believe and therefore they do. If someone really wants to believe something then I suspect there is very little that another person can do to alter those beliefs.

 

I mean think about it. Christianity assures it’s believers of a number of very comforting things.

 

They will not perish; they will have everlasting life.

They are set above all other living things.

They stand among the saints.

They participate with their Creator to make manifest the perfect plan for their lives.

 

These are just a few off the top of my head. These are very desirable things to believe. These things serve to convey a sense of purpose, status, and security to those who believe. They want to believe it. So they do.

[Piprus]

Legion Regalis has it nailed.

Personally, Mike (and welcome, BTW) : I don't know how long you've been out of xianity, but I think it's common for those who've abandoned "the faith" recently to want to engage in debate with xians, wanting to share that sweet feeling of freedom with those still caught in the borg. As you've seen, it's very often futile. But at the same time, it can be reinforcing to you.

[kellyb]

Yeah, you're wasting your time most of the time. It's part of human nature to be able to do some mental gymnastics to get out of facing the obvious.

I can't even get people to question homeopathy, and that should be pretty simple compared to something like Christianity, which has all the hellfear and weekly brainwashing and promises of eternal bliss.

People question their beliefs when they're ready most of the time. If they're not menatally in a place to consider what you're saying as a possibility, then it just won't work.

[godlessgrrl]

But why are they so incapable then of admitting that they really don't know that this God they believe in really exists? If they can't provide valid grounds for it, why do they still hold on to the idea? Why are they so intolerant of the opposing views? Why can't they accept it when their views are at fault?

 

I suspect that one particularly compelling reason is because the stakes are too high for them to be able to let go of what they believe in.

 

If you've spent a lifetime being trained to believe that the loss of your faith will result in an eternity in hell, there's a lot riding on whether or not you believe the right things. To question faith is to challenge it; to challenge faith often is to destroy it. Best not to allow any questions through in the first place.

[bluewizard]

Yes, I remember this happening recently with my sister and grandmother, my sister has become religious all of a sudden ad is reading the Bible everyday and when I tldher that the Bible isn't all that great and it's full of sexism, genocide, homophobic, and that what separates it from any other religion she said "What /I say to yuo just goes in one ear and out the other", they can't get why I'd do this and not beleive in God even though I give examples of the Bible being screwed up.

[Thurisaz]

Everyone, let's not forget the tired old "da babble said there would be scoffers, so your opposition proves it true!!111!!!" crap while we're at it.

 

We all know it already, but I'd like to stress the point once again for any lurkers who might be out there right now... the babblical dogma is a closed-circle delusion. There's a safeguard built into it against any kind of challenge by reality. As far as I can tell, what I mentioned above is one of the best brainwashing-preservation mechanisms that have ever been invented.

[Brother Jeff]

Everyone, let's not forget the tired old "da babble said there would be scoffers, so your opposition proves it true!!111!!!" crap while we're at it.

 

We all know it already, but I'd like to stress the point once again for any lurkers who might be out there right now... the babblical dogma is a closed-circle delusion. There's a safeguard built into it against any kind of challenge by reality. As far as I can tell, what I mentioned above is one of the best brainwashing-preservation mechanisms that have ever been invented.

The Spook of Kryasst who is also somehow magically Him magically brought this glorious article by Brother Ed Babinski unto my remembrance:

 

http://www.secweb.org/index.aspx?action=viewAsset&id=86

 

Glory!

[DarthOkkata]

If one is seriously considering 'taking on' christan beliefs, I would suggest educating yourself. There's lots of books to be read on the subject.

 

There are lost causes, a great number of them. Many will die with their beliefs regardless of the evidence stacked against them. It can't be helped, and the brainwashing from childhood doesn't help matters. The horrible tactic of unleashing the horror of 'hell' on children makes me sick to my stomach. It's child abuse in my view.

 

I have less problem with grown adults who choose their beliefs as adults, than I do on non-thought being drilled and forced on unsuspecting innocent children. There's no such thing as a 'christian' four year old. The beliefs are held by the parents, and the child doesn't yet have the capacity for 'believing' and is simply trusting in its only means of survival.

 

That being said, your arguments carry more weight, and are harder to ignore and push aside if you can site your [provable] sources.

 

Most faithful are ignorant of science. They have no real idea what a theory is. The 'theory' of evolution is as proven as the theory of gravity. The 'missing link' the creationist are so fond of pointing out isn't a hole in our own evolutionary chain [which is remarkably complete] but rather a link between ourselves and modern apes.

 

They also mistakenly believe that we evolved from chimps, as opposed to taking a different evolutionary path.

 

Another common tactic is to cite 'transitional forms' claiming that there should be half frog, half monkey skeletons. Also a gross misunderstanding of how evolution works, and the amount of time and gradual change involved. They see it as a straight line, from a single microbacteria straight up into human beings, with all other life on earth being somewhere in between. The reality is, it's more like a tree, with branches moving off in millions, if not billions of directions, with human beings at the very tip of one of the smallest branches on the very outer fringes of the canopy.

 

The gap argument is another fun topic. For every evolutionary link we find in any place in the 'grand tree of life' two more gaps are created, one on each side of the newest addition. It's kind of like saying that you can never go five feet forward because there are an infinite amount of half distances between you and your destination. If I cross half the distance, there is another half distance in front of me, if I move to the next halfway point, there is yet another halfway point between me and my destination, etc. etc...

 

Missing fossils is another common tactic. Most people don't realize that fossilization is extremely rare. It requires just the right conditions, and even then, there is no guarantee that the remains of an animal will become fossilized.

 

The Precambrian explosion, often cited as 'creation day' is, most likely, the first occurrence of fossilizable life. [There are earlier fossils, but they are very small, and made up entirely of difficult to fossilize soft tissue.]

 

Natural selection is another problem area of misunderstanding. It's true an eye is far to complex to have simply appeared as it is. However, if you start with light sensitive cells, then group them together, then move them towards the 'front', localize them more, make them concave to focus light, then create a lens to further focus the light...etc. etc. then the improbability becomes completely probable.

 

Most of them believe a theory is more like a hypothesis. It's a misunderstanding of how science works. Ignorance is religions most potent tool, and the cause of it's greatest harm.

 

Having the ability to site your sources helps a great deal. Also an understanding of the 'why believing in god is stupid' is essential.

 

Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Steven Hawking, Sam Harris, and David Mills, are all authors worth reading. Penn and Teller's Showtime show 'Bullshit' [available on DVD, if you are so inclined] has a few excellent episodes on the subject of religion as well that are worth checking out.

 

Mills is a good place to start. His book 'Atheist Universe: A thinking person's answer to Christian Fundamentalism' seems to be written so your average person can understand clearly the concepts he's speaking of.

 

Dawkins is also excellent. Though, the first half of his book 'The God Delusion' can be a bit complex. The second half, which often uses some of the worst of scripture to make it's points, is well worth reading. It's also got a long list of recommended reading and has a number of web links to sites to help understand some of his points.

 

The best option for someone looking to confront ignorance, or defend against it, is a large arsenal of self education on the subject, a sharp wit, and the ability to shoot down 'guilt bombing' and 'pity reversal' with an unblinking firmness and cheer.

 

A popular counter is to point out bad atheist. Stalin and Hitler are popular examples. [Hitler was Christian btw. Though, there is evidence that he was using it as a political tool, and may not have been sincere in his beliefs. At any rate, even if Hitler wasn't Christian, his army most definitely was. 'The Final Solution' was justified by claiming that the Jews killed Jesus.]

 

Those arguments are easily shot down by Constantine, The Spanish Conquistadors, The Inquisition, Pias XII, and numerous other 'bad christians'.

 

It's also worth pointing out that neither Stalin, nor Hitler [Assuming he was indeed atheist.] Committed any of their atrocities because they were atheist. They had political motivations.

 

Another fun point of interest. The United States was not founded as a Christian nation. In fact, it was created explicitly to be secularist. The treaty with Tripoli, drafted in 1796 under George Washington, and signed by John Adams in 1797 explicitly states it. I quote:

 

"As the government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founding on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws religion, or tranquility of Musselmen; and as the said states have never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitian nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

 

In this case, the best defense is indeed a good offense, and the ability to be unapologetic and unwavering in your own ability to point out just how the argument they present is wrong.

 

If it's circular reasoning, tell them it's circular reasoning. If it goes against natural laws, tell them it goes against natural laws. The kicker here, is you need to be able to explain why.

 

This is where reading, research, and quite a bit of time get involved. It's a noble and worthy cause. I encourage your efforts, even though it will likely prove mostly thankless and fruitless to you.

 

Many people won't back down in public, or openly admit they are wrong. In private, it can be a different matter.

 

Make them think until their brain hurts. Even if they won't, someone who will might overhear, and you might find more support from others nearby than you might think.

 

A lot of people aren't 'true' christians, but rather, pretend to be faithful so they can seem normal without taking it seriously, or literally. Those are the ones we need to find truth. Fundies and true believers cling to their ignorance like a security blanket wrapped tightly around them, and are pretty much unable to let go.

 

The ones carelessly dragging it behind them, waiting to have it snatched away are the ones people looking to change things should focus on.

 

It's tempting [and more convenient] to focus on loved ones and friends, but that often blinds us to the more important matter of making -real- facts more well known.

 

Welcome BTW. This is an interesting place to hang around I've found.

[Guest MattL]

Mike, I too am new to this site, but not atheism. Cognitive dissonance may be the answer you're looking for. It is a mental conflict that occurs in the brain when new information is received that contradicts that persons view or understanding of the world. CD commonly occurs when a great amount of time and emotion is invested in a set of beliefs. The brain must be open to new information before it will alter it's understanding. Unless a believer of any faith asks for information, I wouldn't waist my time.

[DarthOkkata]

Mike, I too am new to this site, but not atheism. Cognitive dissonance may be the answer you're looking for. It is a mental conflict that occurs in the brain when new information is received that contradicts that persons view or understanding of the world. CD commonly occurs when a great amount of time and emotion is invested in a set of beliefs. The brain must be open to new information before it will alter it's understanding. Unless a believer of any faith asks for information, I wouldn't waist my time.

 

Welcome to the website as well then.

 

I don't believe being annoyed by stupidity qualifies as Cognitive Dissonance Disorder. [CDD would be the correct acronym.]

 

I get in conversations like this with well meaning people and family quite often. I'm not shy, and quite proud to be an atheist. I'm not looking to sully our collective reputation either. I'm as cordial and polite as I can be without backing down. I won't chase someone around after they've backed off or blown their top.

 

I will curtly and rudely cut off anyone who starts yelling at me, refusing to discuss the matter with them in such an 'irate state'.

 

I don't feel it's an obsession or disorder to concern yourself with the fact that your family and friends are still acting like the ignorant self-absorbed fucktards religion makes them. One of the worst parts is that I'll never have to bring up the subject myself.

 

Trust me, they get around to it.

 

It's best not to be aggressive. I never bring the subject up myself. [You don't have too.] I am not of a mind to think that every opinion is equally valid and deserving of respect either.

 

I will not be bowled over and stand nodding just to shut someone up. Well, not unless I'm really busy at work, and then I make it obvious that's what I'm doing.

 

"Could you stop talking? I'm kind of busy. I'll tell you why you're an idiot later." Saying that tends to upset people, and mindless nodding while not making eye contact works almost as well. [There are times I've done this, but it's reserved for people who know me well enough to not take it seriously.]

 

Though, if someone asks if I'm paying attention to them, I will say "No." if they haven't got the hint by that point.

 

At any rate, it isn't even close to CDD. It's justified annoyance and frustration brought about by over exposure to prolonged episodes of ignorance and stupidity.

 

Completely rational, and worthy of pursuit. Just not aggressive or hostile pursuit. Doing that could cause more harm than good, on both sides of the argument.

 

It annoys me that I have to be 'extra nice' because I'm an atheist. Otherwise, you're just giving the theist justification for how 'being an atheist makes you'.

 

The best advice for any sort of theistic nonsense is firm politeness, a well read mind, and defensible system of provable beliefs.

 

"Here's my evidence, where's yours? If you can do better than what I've got on my side, I'll believe you."

 

I've yet to meet a theist that was up to the challenge.

[mwc]

I'll give them some credit: they simply can't support their beliefs. But why are they so incapable then of admitting that they really don't know that this God they believe in really exists? If they can't provide valid grounds for it, why do they still hold on to the idea? Why are they so intolerant of the opposing views? Why can't they accept it when their views are at fault?

 

Am I wasting my time with these people? Should I just give it a rest and let them view me as they please, however negative that may be? I'm the type that hates to let the other party get away with anything they are at fault with, so this would take a little effort on my part. I'm really interested to hear of some tactics some of you here may have used in the past that have actually worked to get the other party to actually take these matters seriously and begin to question their beliefs as they ought. Anyone?

I hear ya. It sucks when you say you don't believe in a god then you're suddenly on trial when they should be the ones showing you the wonders of their god(s). What the hell did you do wrong by simply not doing anything? Why the little "flourish" at the end of the so-called discussion that makes you the bad guy? It is patronizing and annoying. Don't blame me because your god failed to perform its tricks. Just because I don't think a sunset or a puppy is reason to "buy in" is no reason to think I'm "blind" to the whole concept. The "threat" that your god is going to "get through to me" some day (and usually in a "bad" way) is just a wrong as labelling me something other than what I said I was. I'm an atheist not agnostic or whatever else makes you feel more comfortable around me. Sheesh.

 

I would love to hear them simply say "You're right. My god doesn't say or do anything for some reason. I can't blame you for not believing in it. Maybe that will change some day? Talk to you later." That's roughly what they say now but at least not condescending and it's honest but so far their god's shortcomings are all blamed onto me...as if I did something wrong. Like when I'm not around their god is just hanging out and chatting it up with these people but as soon as I open the door he hides like a frightened mouse because I just don't want to see him and he's eager to oblige me (until that day he does that "bad" thing to get my attention that is).

 

I used to try to force people to concede the point, much like it sounds you're trying to do. Stop it. It's much more effort on your part than it is on yours. They're mentally sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling "LA LA LA LA...CAN'T HEAR YOU! LA LA LA LA" while you're saying whatever you're saying. Save your breath and your sanity. When you come across a "receptive" xian, you'll know it after dealing with all these others, and spend your time there. It will time and effort much better spent.

 

mwc

[Lycorth]

Everyone, let's not forget the tired old "da babble said there would be scoffers, so your opposition proves it true!!111!!!" crap while we're at it.

 

In the end, this is what it boils down to. The Wholly Babble says people will oppose it, so any opposition to Xianity only highlights this "fact"

 

This is part of what Xians think gives them moral authority over non-xians, and therefore why many of them feel as if they don't need to take anything said by a non-xian seriously. They think their god is on their side, so human decency and logic go right down the shitter.

[Guest MattL]

Mike, I too am new to this site, but not atheism. Cognitive dissonance may be the answer you're looking for. It is a mental conflict that occurs in the brain when new information is received that contradicts that persons view or understanding of the world. CD commonly occurs when a great amount of time and emotion is invested in a set of beliefs. The brain must be open to new information before it will alter it's understanding. Unless a believer of any faith asks for information, I wouldn't waist my time.

 

Welcome to the website as well then.

 

I don't believe being annoyed by stupidity qualifies as Cognitive Dissonance Disorder. [CDD would be the correct acronym.]

 

I get in conversations like this with well meaning people and family quite often. I'm not shy, and quite proud to be an atheist. I'm not looking to sully our collective reputation either. I'm as cordial and polite as I can be without backing down. I won't chase someone around after they've backed off or blown their top.

 

I will curtly and rudely cut off anyone who starts yelling at me, refusing to discuss the matter with them in such an 'irate state'.

 

I don't feel it's an obsession or disorder to concern yourself with the fact that your family and friends are still acting like the ignorant self-absorbed fucktards religion makes them. One of the worst parts is that I'll never have to bring up the subject myself.

 

Trust me, they get around to it.

 

It's best not to be aggressive. I never bring the subject up myself. [You don't have too.] I am not of a mind to think that every opinion is equally valid and deserving of respect either.

 

I will not be bowled over and stand nodding just to shut someone up. Well, not unless I'm really busy at work, and then I make it obvious that's what I'm doing.

 

"Could you stop talking? I'm kind of busy. I'll tell you why you're an idiot later." Saying that tends to upset people, and mindless nodding while not making eye contact works almost as well. [There are times I've done this, but it's reserved for people who know me well enough to not take it seriously.]

 

Though, if someone asks if I'm paying attention to them, I will say "No." if they haven't got the hint by that point.

 

At any rate, it isn't even close to CDD. It's justified annoyance and frustration brought about by over exposure to prolonged episodes of ignorance and stupidity.

 

Completely rational, and worthy of pursuit. Just not aggressive or hostile pursuit. Doing that could cause more harm than good, on both sides of the argument.

 

It annoys me that I have to be 'extra nice' because I'm an atheist. Otherwise, you're just giving the theist justification for how 'being an atheist makes you'.

 

The best advice for any sort of theistic nonsense is firm politeness, a well read mind, and defensible system of provable beliefs.

 

"Here's my evidence, where's yours? If you can do better than what I've got on my side, I'll believe you."

 

I've yet to meet a theist that was up to the challenge.

[Guest MattL]

Mike, I too am new to this site, but not atheism. Cognitive dissonance may be the answer you're looking for. It is a mental conflict that occurs in the brain when new information is received that contradicts that persons view or understanding of the world. CD commonly occurs when a great amount of time and emotion is invested in a set of beliefs. The brain must be open to new information before it will alter it's understanding. Unless a believer of any faith asks for information, I wouldn't waist my time.

 

Welcome to the website as well then.

 

I don't believe being annoyed by stupidity qualifies as Cognitive Dissonance Disorder. [CDD would be the correct acronym.]

 

I get in conversations like this with well meaning people and family quite often. I'm not shy, and quite proud to be an atheist. I'm not looking to sully our collective reputation either. I'm as cordial and polite as I can be without backing down. I won't chase someone around after they've backed off or blown their top.

 

I will curtly and rudely cut off anyone who starts yelling at me, refusing to discuss the matter with them in such an 'irate state'.

 

I don't feel it's an obsession or disorder to concern yourself with the fact that your family and friends are still acting like the ignorant self-absorbed fucktards religion makes them. One of the worst parts is that I'll never have to bring up the subject myself.

 

Trust me, they get around to it.

 

It's best not to be aggressive. I never bring the subject up myself. [You don't have too.] I am not of a mind to think that every opinion is equally valid and deserving of respect either.

 

I will not be bowled over and stand nodding just to shut someone up. Well, not unless I'm really busy at work, and then I make it obvious that's what I'm doing.

 

"Could you stop talking? I'm kind of busy. I'll tell you why you're an idiot later." Saying that tends to upset people, and mindless nodding while not making eye contact works almost as well. [There are times I've done this, but it's reserved for people who know me well enough to not take it seriously.]

 

Though, if someone asks if I'm paying attention to them, I will say "No." if they haven't got the hint by that point.

 

At any rate, it isn't even close to CDD. It's justified annoyance and frustration brought about by over exposure to prolonged episodes of ignorance and stupidity.

 

Completely rational, and worthy of pursuit. Just not aggressive or hostile pursuit. Doing that could cause more harm than good, on both sides of the argument.

 

It annoys me that I have to be 'extra nice' because I'm an atheist. Otherwise, you're just giving the theist justification for how 'being an atheist makes you'.

 

The best advice for any sort of theistic nonsense is firm politeness, a well read mind, and defensible system of provable beliefs.

 

"Here's my evidence, where's yours? If you can do better than what I've got on my side, I'll believe you."

 

I've yet to meet a theist that was up to the challenge.

[Guest MattL]

Mike, I too am new to this site, but not atheism. Cognitive dissonance may be the answer you're looking for. It is a mental conflict that occurs in the brain when new information is received that contradicts that persons view or understanding of the world. CD commonly occurs when a great amount of time and emotion is invested in a set of beliefs. The brain must be open to new information before it will alter it's understanding. Unless a believer of any faith asks for information, I wouldn't waist my time.

 

Welcome to the website as well then.

 

I don't believe being annoyed by stupidity qualifies as Cognitive Dissonance Disorder. [CDD would be the correct acronym.]

 

I get in conversations like this with well meaning people and family quite often. I'm not shy, and quite proud to be an atheist. I'm not looking to sully our collective reputation either. I'm as cordial and polite as I can be without backing down. I won't chase someone around after they've backed off or blown their top.

 

I will curtly and rudely cut off anyone who starts yelling at me, refusing to discuss the matter with them in such an 'irate state'.

 

I don't feel it's an obsession or disorder to concern yourself with the fact that your family and friends are still acting like the ignorant self-absorbed fucktards religion makes them. One of the worst parts is that I'll never have to bring up the subject myself.

 

Trust me, they get around to it.

 

It's best not to be aggressive. I never bring the subject up myself. [You don't have too.] I am not of a mind to think that every opinion is equally valid and deserving of respect either.

 

I will not be bowled over and stand nodding just to shut someone up. Well, not unless I'm really busy at work, and then I make it obvious that's what I'm doing.

 

"Could you stop talking? I'm kind of busy. I'll tell you why you're an idiot later." Saying that tends to upset people, and mindless nodding while not making eye contact works almost as well. [There are times I've done this, but it's reserved for people who know me well enough to not take it seriously.]

 

Though, if someone asks if I'm paying attention to them, I will say "No." if they haven't got the hint by that point.

 

At any rate, it isn't even close to CDD. It's justified annoyance and frustration brought about by over exposure to prolonged episodes of ignorance and stupidity.

 

Completely rational, and worthy of pursuit. Just not aggressive or hostile pursuit. Doing that could cause more harm than good, on both sides of the argument.

 

It annoys me that I have to be 'extra nice' because I'm an atheist. Otherwise, you're just giving the theist justification for how 'being an atheist makes you'.

 

The best advice for any sort of theistic nonsense is firm politeness, a well read mind, and defensible system of provable beliefs.

 

"Here's my evidence, where's yours? If you can do better than what I've got on my side, I'll believe you."

 

I've yet to meet a theist that was up to the challenge.

[Guest MattL]

As I stated before I am new to this. Sorry about those replies!

[Toxic]

Christians won't take opposing views seriously - would yo if you thought Gawd was on your side? Come to think of it, I know Xtians who are happy to sneer and mock every other belief system but get very hot under the collar when their own faith is sneered at and mocked.

[Robbobrob]

Christians won't take opposing views seriously - would yo if you thought Gawd was on your side? Come to think of it, I know Xtians who are happy to sneer and mock every other belief system but get very hot under the collar when their own faith is sneered at and mocked.

 

I love the convenience that God-ists have (of any theist-centered religion) to label any opposing views as work of Supreme Evil, deluding and corrupting the non-believers. It makes arguement very easy when, if confronted with a very intelligent arguement, they can just shrug it off as the Devil playing mind games.

[Thurisaz]

I love the convenience that God-ists have (of any theist-centered religion) to label any opposing views as work of Supreme Evil...

 

Eh, maybe it's hard to believe but not all religions have even a concept of "Supreme Evil", let alone a need to blame everything on it

 

However, if we examine the dominant morontheisms you're mostly right

[Robbobrob]

I love the convenience that God-ists have (of any theist-centered religion) to label any opposing views as work of Supreme Evil...

 

Eh, maybe it's hard to believe but not all religions have even a concept of "Supreme Evil", let alone a need to blame everything on it

 

However, if we examine the dominant morontheisms you're mostly right

 

Point taken. It is easy to lump people unfairly into catagories they do not belong. I will watch that in the future. Thanks.

[Guest CerebralHypertrophy]

I think that it takes a hell of a lot more than logic/reasoning to get someone that is a Christian to de-convert. Right now I'm reading, How to Win Friends and Influence People," and it touches on the subject of getting people to change their views/accept your viewpoint. It goes into changing people's mind and that if you make them defensive or come out blatantly and state that they are wrong, they will not open themselves to any logic/reasoning that you may have. It is more of an emotional thing than an intellectual one. Christians are no dumber than non-Christians, they have the same logical/reasoning capacities, they just don't use it in this particular emotional part of their lives...