How has your paradigm changed?

[Vigile]

Reading the thread on Terry “the vegetable” Schiavo (the name Schiavo just begs for a good mafia name - hey, I love Italians, it's all in good fun) raised an interesting question for me. It is interesting to read the clash of ideas between how Burry the Rag approaches the issue and the majority of Ex Christians. It occurs to me that the debate is almost pointless since both sides are approaching the issue from within the compounds of their own paradigm. Since the paradigms are in disagreement with each other agreement appears impossible.

 

My question for the board is how has your paradigm shifted since you deconverted from Christianity?

 

I for example used to be a Reagan republican, a fierce supporter of the death penalty, and generally conservative in my fiscal and social views. I recall watching Iraq I on television and cheering on the invasion, feeling a strong sense of pride in god and country.

 

Now, I am an opponent of the death penalty, vehemently anti war, socially ultra liberal, and am vastly disappointed in the direction the country (America – sorry if you are from another country) is heading in both foreign and domestic policy terms.

 

Did others notice that their views changed dramatically or gradually since leaving Christianity? How so?

[Alice]

The major shift for me was simply realising that people ACTUALLY see things differently. Not that I thought everyone was in agreement before .. but I thought that there were these set of 'truths' (and mostly that I was in possession of them!) and that people that opposed this or that 'truth' were either 'decieved' or 'in rebellion' or something.

 

And so many of these things were not prescribed by the Bible - they were lifestyle and political choices - that somehow had got themselves swallowed up in the religion ...

 

Sounds ridiculous now.

[Thurisaz]

Did others notice that their views changed dramatically or gradually since leaving Christianity?  How so?

 

My views changed very similar to yours around the time of my deconversion, though I think it's a bit far-fetched to say that my deconversion caused all those changes. It did cause some few directly, some others indirectly, and I guess some just happened to conincide with it.

Among other things, I actually was pro-Iraq-war until shortly after my deconversion. Then I stumbled onto one of the fundie playgrounds, learned about the connections between the shrub and the fundie cults, opened my eyes yet more and saw... oh well. You know what I mean.

[Vigile]

My views changed very similar to yours around the time of my deconversion, though I think it's a bit far-fetched to say that my deconversion caused all those changes.

 

 

I know what you mean. My deconversion happened while I was in the university, so I'm abolutely sure that education had just as much, if not more of an effect on my shift in ideas.

[LloydDobler]

My worldview actually shifted left long before my deconversion. I used to argue with my fellow christians about war and the Israeli Palestine conflict, women's rights, welfare, healthcare, and the like. The last issue for me to go liberal on was gay rights.

 

So basically by the time I deconverted I was basically just bringing my beliefs in line with my views.

[Ouroboros]

My worldview actually shifted left long before my deconversion.  I used to argue with my fellow christians about war and the Israeli Palestine conflict, women's rights, welfare, healthcare, and the like.  The last issue for me to go liberal on was gay rights.

 

So basically by the time I deconverted I was basically just bringing my beliefs in line with my views.

 

That pretty much happened to me too. I changed in many views before I de-converted. And one of the last one was the gay rights too.

 

But what’s funny is that I actually was against death penalty as a Christian, and now I’m somewhat for it. And I have my arguments for it too.

[Lizard]

My worldview actually shifted left long before my deconversion.  I used to argue with my fellow christians about war and the Israeli Palestine conflict, women's rights, welfare, healthcare, and the like.  The last issue for me to go liberal on was gay rights.

 

So basically by the time I deconverted I was basically just bringing my beliefs in line with my views.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I pretty much followed this route too. As my views of the world/humanity/issues changed, so did my view of christianity/bible/et al.

 

Through the years though, I was pretty much live and let live. Instead of trying to "change" others, except for that brief time in fundyland, I was pretty accepting of others beliefs and mores..

[Curtdude]

....  My deconversion happened while I was in the university, so I'm abolutely sure that education had just as much, if not more of an effect on my shift in ideas.

 

University had that effect on my thinking, also. As a believer I evolved from a Reagan wackco to right wing democrat, but at deconversion I went seriously to the socialist left, but have in the last 10 years become more of a moderate democrat. (I'm w/ Han re the death penalty, btw.) Perhaps we could benefit from taking on some of the policies of Western Europe on healthcare and education.

 

Maybe many of us go from the right to at least the middle, if not the left politically, because we no longer are being programmed at church on what our "leaders" want us to do. But there are many libertarians on this site, and we seem to be more politically diverse than the church would believe (the ol' athiest/commie team-up).

 

And apostates have rejected the notion that if you cease following the bible, it's a spiral loop straight to anarchy, destruction, murder and bestiality; we no longer need god's word and the hs to keep us from going out, shooting smack and going on an old fashioned rape and pillage spree. I have had to figure out (imagine that!) what my morals are. And they are pretty strong, but not because some dude in the sky needs to instruct me, but because I understand that we live in a social framework of contracts between each other. We need each other to survive and in order to survive, you have to get along.

 

Anyways, just my 2cents.

[Fweethawt]

My paradigms usually shift with each step that I take. Even moreso if I have less change in my pocket. Because then, they have more room to move around.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OOOOHH! You said "paradigm", not "pair of dimes".

 

I'm sorry.

 

[Ouroboros]

Lame joke alert!

[Valgeir]

The more I know, the more my views change. My beliefs concerning deities have little to do with any of my other beliefs.

[necrosmith]

My paradigm has shifted DRAMATICALLY.

 

I used to be a far right wing conservative Christian. Now, I'm the exact opposite.

 

I'm one of the more liberal of my friends. I'm no longer a registered Republican but a registered Libertarian. I voted Democrat for the first time in my life in 2004.

 

I value life much much more now than I ever did as a Christian.

 

As a Christian, I didn't give a fig about this life because heaven was all I cared about. Now that I know this may be the only life I get, I value it that much more.

 

I value my friends more as well. They may only get one chance at life and they choose to spend their scarce hours as my friend. That is an honor.

[Guest Hida Bukkorosu]

my paradigm when i first converted to christianity was that of an ultra-right wing Pat Robertson republican..

 

over the years that mellowed out as i was disillusioned with the political system, i became a very apolitical "evangelical youth subculture" type... then i moved toward the fringes of that subculture as i got involved in the "alternative" christian subculture... my paradigm was the "not of this world so this world's politics don't matter" view.

 

as i lost my faith, i hold much the same political paradigm as i held in the latter days of my xianity... except instead of it being "i consider myself a citizen of the kingdom of god, not the usa", it's more of an "i consider myself a citizen of the kingdom of ME" kind of thing.

 

the one view ii switched was from being staunchly "life begins at conception" pro-life, to being in favor of the morning after pill and other forms of abortion that occur early enough in pregnancy that brainwaves have not begun (now associating the beginning of life with the beginning of thought, as opposed to the imbument of a mythical "soul").

 

as for moral views, these changed radically, of course, particularily pertaining to sexual morality.

[Caretaker]

My paradigms usually shift with each step that I take. Even moreso if I have less change in my pocket. Because then, they have more room to move around.

 

 

OOOOHH! You said "paradigm", not "pair of dimes". 

 

I'm sorry. 

 

 

 

/me smacks Fwee around with a large trout (Ya SMARTASS!)

[Fweethawt]

 

 

I ain't never had trout before.

 

<-- Fwee wiping trout juice off of head.

[Caretaker]

I hear trout juice stains mouse fur...

[Fweethawt]

I hear trout juice stains mouse fur...

 

Actually, it's the stink that I'm worried about.

[Caretaker]

Actually, it's the stink that I'm worried about. 

Yeah, no kidding!!! But now that means you have to be careful, or I will have to sick Biggles after you!

[been borg again]

AfterI deconverted, and after the week of feeling depressed and 'whoa is me, I beleived a lie my whole life."

Then all of the sudden I felt very happy, like I was starting over with a clean slate, and everything seemed " New"

 

The world suddenly became very huge,

 

science and humanities all of the sudden became extremely interesting.

 

People seemed nicer and kinder ( no more demonizing the sinners).

 

No more demonic paranoia.

 

No more giult over being horny all the time ( and the obbsession suddenly fades away)

 

No more depression over the existance of Hell.

 

A huge moment came when I rejected my previous dualistic black/white thinking for the first time in my life. Before I never even considered that Dualistic thinking had such a huge influence on my world-view.......my whole understanding of Reality collapsed, I think this was the biggest shift in Paradigm

 

Other Religions all of the sudden became very interesting.

 

The Bible became suddenly less boring.

 

I like to think my Pride and Egoism disappeared, that is all of the sudden

I felt like I was able to admit being wrong, without any feelings of low self esteem, and more honest with my own humanity.

 

I got a sense of humor for the first time, and felt like I no longer felt the need to be controling.

 

No more Fear of not knowing.

 

No more fear of being ungrounded.

 

No more fear of not living up to Christian expectations.

 

No more fear of being judged " unspiritual" when being honest about my humanity.

 

More open to expressing emotions, instead of second guessing every emotion and thought, making sure I didnt "sin" or offend the christian Ideal

 

Over all it was very liberating and thinking back, it was the best moment of my life, also the most difficult, I gave up my Self Identity and

I faced my greatest fear ( that I beleived a LIE) and overcame it.

[Fweethawt]

Yeah, no kidding!!! But now that means you have to be careful, or I will have to sick Biggles after you!

 

 

 

[Kalidasa]

My paradigm is the same now as it was when I was still a Christian.

 

I have always been pro-choice. I've always seen everyone as deserving of the same level of respect - including homosexuals. I've always supported the death penalty, but only in the most extreme of cases. The only difference between then and now is that I now see the harm that religion can do to people.

[Lilith]

My experience closely matches that of Been Borg Again. One major difference is that I didn't spend a week depressed then "snap out of it" to a bright, shiny world. It was more of a tug of war between the two that lasted a couple of months.

 

I remember driving down the street, staring at people and thinking, "He's not going to hell, because there is no hell. Oh look, neither is he. Wonder if he's saved? Doesn't matter anymore...." It was a wonderment and wild feeling.

 

I recall at my initial conversion, how I felt a "great weight" lifted off of me. I spoke if this in my testimony often. I was equally amazed at this same sensation at my deconversion, when I was finally able to admit it to myself. Like Borg, the world opened up for me and it was brilliant. I didn't obsess over people's souls. Everyone became kinder. No one (evil sinners) was out to get me. Other religions were validated. I didn't feel guilty for being female. I didn't feel guilty for being female and enjoying sex. I just flat didn't feel guilty anymore (because we all know that we are sinners, saved by grace, and but for the grace of god we all have one foot in the gates of hell).

 

I am learning to truly be true to myself for the first time in my life. I love it.

[Purple Rhino]

My views are pretty much the same fundamentally pre & post de conversion.

Being raised ultra-left liberal pagan my value system was basically formed before jesus abducted my family.

Along with rejecting the church teaching on homosexuality I rejected the conservative political and religious points of view.

One of the things I constantly questioned was how could these people who preached love and compassion be so hateful and careless toward others in need. And for people who believed that god provided for them, they were awfully concerned with their own wealth and how to expand their personal power.

 

PR

[Mythra]

Appelation. what a beautiful, heartfelt post. Ditto for me. (except the part about being female)

 

So much for Jesus being the one who sets us free.

 

I don't know what to think about this paradigm question. Maybe I'm too newly removed from christianity. I don't know if my new found philosophies of life will spill over and begin to change the way I look at other things. Be interesting to find out.

 

For now, I'm still a republican. I still like Bill O'Reilly and the Fox News Channel. I still kinda like George Bush. (although I always thought Iraq was a big mistake)

 

Some of you are probably thinking, YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING.

 

And I just think; FUCK OFF. I've lived too long and seen too much for anyone to tell me what to think anymore. I'll think whatever the hell I want to.

 

When I was a christian, I fell in step and spewed the party line. But those days are gone. THANK GAWD

[Vigile]

Ditto for me.  (except the part about being female) 

 

 

 

You're not getting accused of that one twice in a week huh?