Do You Have Socialized Medicine?

[Wendybabe]

Michael Moore's new movie has some friends of mine arguing about socialized medicine, "People who live in countries with Socialized medicine aren't getting quality care!" "They have to wait for weeks on waiting lists." "Then they have to take substandard treatment." Moore's movie doesn't even address this claim, (He just shows nice clean hospitals, happy people who receive the best care) Which is the truth? You who live in these countries please respond!

[Sceadugenga]

Sometimes yes, sometimes no - elective waits can be longer at times (and depending on region) but for the most part wait times are close to average US wait times from what I have experienced.

[Vigile]

In Russia there is a long waiting list for free care and the quality, I've heard, is not good. Brutal in fact. Most Russians now splurge and pay for private clinics if they can afford to (more and more can). Private clinics are still cheaper than the US, by quite a large margin I believe. We also have western clinics, which charge the same as the US. Care in the Russian private clinics and western clinics is roughly the same, but the western clinics have prettier offices.

[CelloChick]

WARNING!!!!!! EXTREMELY PISSED OFF RANT

 

I only managed to watch half of Sicko before I got so angry I had to turn it OFF. I live in the USA. I have health insurance. I have spent, out of pocket, over $100,000 to stay alive during the past ten years. Two words that can, and will, bankrupt an average American family: co-pay and deductible.

 

It works like this. I pay 25 dollars every time I see a doctor. Which is GREAT, unless you see four doctors in one week. OK, that’s 100 bucks. Doctors prescribe four new medications. One is 15 dollars, the other is 15 dollars, the next two are 30 dollars each. Now I have spent 190 dollars on medical care in a single week. WITH health insurance.

 

Groceries or medical care? Which do we buy this week? I have fed my daughter POPCORN for dinner because we could not afford food after paying for my medical care. Our house has been in foreclosure so many times because we paid the doctor instead of our mortgage.

 

I had two surgeries THIS year. I had one surgery last year. I had chemotherapy for almost two years. I had cancer surgery that cost $200,000 in 1998. Our insurance paid 80% of the bill. It took us five years to pay off that medical bill. We spent my daughter’s college fund. We spent our entire retirement savings. And I still have medical bills that are not paid for. And as long as I am alive, I will have MORE medical bills. What insurance doesn’t cover is shocking. It really is.

 

As far as waiting for medical care, what the hell do you think goes on in America? I’ve waited two months to see a neurologist. I’ve waited six weeks to see a neuro-ophthalmologist. I got a prescription for a new wheelchair in January 2007. It’s now July 2007. Do I have my wheelchair? NO! Because my insurance company is tying things up in red tape. I’m still waiting for them to pre-qualify me so I can order the goddamn chair. When will I get my wheelchair? I don’t know. I’m so angry I could go to my insurance company and beat someone with a cane. Break someone’s legs. OK, now YOU can’t walk. Now, you wait seven months on HOUSE ARREST while some pinhead decides to pre-qualify you for the wheelchair you need! See how much YOU like it!

 

Sad thing is, if I DID beat someone, I’d get the damn chair in prison! America has socialized medicine… in prison. A criminal needs an MRI? They get one and don’t have to pay the deductible, either. Oh, you need a powerchair, here you go! It has crossed my mind that committing a crime might save my family financially. I pay my taxes. I follow the rules. I’ve never even gotten a speeding ticket. If I was a murdering bastard, I’d have my powerchair right now. Instead, I follow the rules and the rules... SUCK!

 

Catastrophic illness is a nightmare. It really is. I’m living most people’s nightmare scenario. I can handle chest cracking, rib spreading surgery. I can handle high dose chemo. I can handle pain so bad that all I can do is scream at the top of my lungs. I’ve done it all! I can deal with degenerative, incurable, neuromuscular illness. I cannot deal with the medical bills. It’s the BILLS that make me suicidal, not the illness. Because I love my family and I hate to see them hurt. And the medical bills hurt us. If I died, they would be financially better off, and that’s not fair to them, or me.

 

My husband makes too much money for me to qualify for Illinois Medicaid. I was a stay at home mom when I got sick, so I don’t have enough work credits to qualify for Federal disability income. I cannot collect disability on my husband’s job until my husband turns 63. He was 36 when I got sick. I’ll most likely be dead by the time he’s 63, but I’m gonna fight like hell to live, anyway. Because I have a life that matters!!!!!

 

We need healthcare reform in America. No child should be fed popcorn for dinner because mom had to choose between medicine and food. Housing and medicine. The car payment or medicine. The electric bill or medicine. I’m sick of choosing between medical care and my family’s needs. I’m sick of feeling guilty for being sick AND broke.

 

Isn’t being sick tough enough??????

 

Copy this, print it and hand it to your friend who says, socialized medicine would be worse. NOTHING is worse than losing every last penny to a medical nightmare. Nothing is worse than seeing your child cry because she’s hungry and you can’t afford food because you paid doctors. And you don’t meet the low income requirements for the food pantry, so no help there. Good thing you have popcorn this week. We’ll buy food next week, sweetie. Don't cry.

 

We make too much money to qualify for assistance, and not enough money to actually pull this off. And it never stops. Ever. Until I’m dead, or America reforms healthcare, which will happen just after hell freezes over. I’m starting to think I’ll get my new powerchair when hell freezes over!

 

Take it from someone who has been in the trenches for ten years. America's health care system sucks. Damn, I’m mad! I’m gonna go play my cello and calm down.

 

One still pissed off...

Cello Chick

[Thurisaz]

You who live in these countries please respond!

 

As for Germany...

 

...those on "socialized care" (I'll assume this is roughly what we call "Krankenkasse" over here, in contrast to private health insurance) have to pay more than was the case some years ago, that's true, and it annoys us patients to no end... but I dare say that the increased cost is tolerable (amounts to 40 € per year max). What do we get for it? From my personal experience, you'll have to wait for an average of one our or one-and-a-half before it's your turn, but the care you receive is okay. And aside from your monthly fee for the federal health insurance (which isn't back-breaking) you rarely have to pay extra bucks unless it's for some rather... exotic... treatments that are not officially endorsed by the insurance companies.

 

On the other side are the private health insurance customers who indeed get the very best care (as far as I can tell), but for a whopping price (unless they signed their contracts when they were damn young - the fees rise sharply with every passing year).

 

So, our health system could be much much better, but we don't normally have to worry whether we'll ever get over our diseases. Of course I don't exactly have much experience with how it works in other places...

[Thurisaz]

Groceries or medical care? Which do we buy this week? [...]

 

I try to make myself believe that's just a joke... I really do... but I can't

 

Addendum to my posting above: No matter how bad things are over here, they aren't that fucked up!

[Unknowing1]

I so agree with the medical issue. I work with retirees and the amount of money they pay for health insurance is outrageous. People put off retirement because they can't afford the health insurance. I have had people literally call me in tears because they couldn't afford their medications and put food on the table.

 

My brother in law is a veteran and needed care for a lump in his chest. The federal government tried to put off his surgery for a couple of month until the beginning of the next fiscal year because they were running out of money. My sister had to contact their congressmen to get him the care he needed immediately. Turned out to be cancer but he is ok now.

 

The whole system, veterans, medicaid, medicare need to be overhauled in addition to coming up with socialized health care.

[Casey]

Could an American please tell me just what Socialized Medicine is intended to be? Does it mean that private medicine would be abolished? Or would it be another scheme to increase medical coverage?

Casey

[Wendybabe]

Thanks for the responses, Unknowing, Vig, Scead, Please let me know what country you are talking about.

[Christine]

CelloChick, I'm pissed off too! I love how the argument against any universal care is " Oh, I hear you have to wait a long time." While their fellow Americans are out here screaming somebody help us! We can't get care! We can't afford care! Our medicine is so expensive we have to choose between taking it or sacrificing something else that is just as vital!

 

Wendybabe, did your friends even see Sicko? Or are they just repeating the propaganda they have heard without knowing the facts? Sicko is factual! http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/06/28/sicko...heck/index.html

[Ouroboros]

Michael Moore's new movie has some friends of mine arguing about socialized medicine, "People who live in countries with Socialized medicine aren't getting quality care!" "They have to wait for weeks on waiting lists." "Then they have to take substandard treatment." Moore's movie doesn't even address this claim, (He just shows nice clean hospitals, happy people who receive the best care) Which is the truth? You who live in these countries please respond!

I'm not quite qualified to give you a complete or accurate description of the Swedish health care anymore, but I can say that when I grew up, it was great. Unfortunately there are some problems with it today - based on hearsay from my folks back there - that older people get less quality care. It has become a bit of "best service to best person", so if you're young and productive it seems you can get a faster care. My grandma (about 5 years ago) had to go to the ER and was pretty bad (this is according to my mom who took her there) but had to wait for 24 hours to see a doctor. Maybe the incident was just a fluke, but I've heard other stories from other people, to realize that no system is perfect. The other problem with a socialized system like this is that the rich people who supposedly pay the largest part of the tax burden, knows how to avoid the taxes or move to another country.

 

I know that during the 80's and 90's in Sweden they talked about implementing more private clinics, so people had a choice or maybe it was because the care was too expensive and it wasn't enough tax revenue to cover the costs, but I don't know what happened to that.

 

In the end I think it's important to see that both systems have good and bad sides, and if we go all out to one or the other, we're setting us up for failure. The only way to do it somewhat fair is to find a system that is in the middle. Moderation is better than extremism. We do need a system in US that can catch people like CelloChick and help them, but without creating a system that eventually will crash financially.

[Sceadugenga]

Ooops my bad... was talking about Canada - with some breif visits to the US healthcare system on two visits.

[The Sage Nabooru]

The healthcare in America is absolutely fucking disgusting, you can't fucking live without shelling out hundreds of thousands of dollars, it's true, CC is right.

 

It's just another act to kiss the ass of the wealthy Republican minority. If you're poor, disabled, unskilled, immigrant, or really really sick........the best you can fucking do in a lot of cases is just sit back and watch yourself die.

 

I was charged over half a thousand dollars for a fucking ambulance ride that took fifteen minutes and had no flashing lights or anything. I told my coworkers after that to just let me bleed to death rather than call the fucking emergency again. Being a low-level, low-salary worker, I seemingly was not worth the medical care, so a huge proportion of American workers aren't considered "good enough", it seems, for basic health care.

 

I think a lot of politicians and doctors genuinely believe that certain kinds of people (like white married male white-collar workers) simply deserve care while others do not. Why bother keeping the colored female riff-raff alive, right?

[Robbobrob]

As of yesterday, July 1st, all citizens of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts have medical insurance to cover medical expenses. Or so the government of the state would want you to believe.

 

As of yesterday, anyone NOT covered by some sort of medical insurance will be FINED and PENALIZED by the state, having tax returns garnished and other economic attacks on the working poor and the self-employed.

 

The state's solution to get people insured is to attack the individual and FORCE everyone to buy insurance, whether there is a plan that fits a person's (or family's) real budget.

 

If this plan had been in effect when I was laid off, it would have cost me hndreds of dollars a month, money I spent more wisely making sure my credit rating was good and not defaulting on any bills. If I had had to have health insurance for those couple of months, and then the months BEFORE my work's insurance kicked in, I would have missed several due dates for bills, wrecking my credit and my future. JUST SO THE POLITICIANS IN THE STATE CAN BRAG THEY HAVE UNIVERSAL HEALTH COVERAGE....makes me sick.

[Guest Catlady34]

I live in Canada. The system is not nearly as perfect as described in "Sicko", but yet it's not bad either. We do have waiting list problems, but it depends on which area you live in. A few years ago one of my friends was diagnosed breast cancer and had surgery the following week and chemotherapy and radiation treatment immediately after; it was a hard time but now she's fine. She has not had any problem with the health system. When my grandfather, in his last 4 years, was frequently very ill, he never had to wait to get treatment and he had free home services (a nurse coming twice a week, another person once a week who helped him take his bath), the pharmacy preparing his medicines and delivering them, and when he was not able anymore to stay at home, he got a place in a government nursing home, where he was very well taken care of, until his death. Right now my father's parents (the other grandpa I was talking about was my mom's dad), aged 85 and 90, have the same home services. But some other people do have problems, are waiting, and even seeking health care in foreing countries (US or others) to wait less. Working at the customer service for the health care department, I do know about that.

 

So it's true we do have some problems, but I still think that a universal public health care system is the best, but it has to be well managed and this is hard to do for governements. Here in Canada it is an important, and widely agreed, social value, yet it is being questioned, especially those years. Here in particular, about 10 years ago, the governement made a big mistake and offered early retirement to millions of doctors and nurses; they did not think they would all take the opportunity but they did. Consequently now we've been lacking doctors and qualified nurses for years, and this will not stop for years to come. It is also true that there is a parallel private system for people who have a lot of money. Recently some law suits made the Supreme Court decide that private insurance companies should be allowed to give basic health coverage (so fare they were just authorized to give complementary coverage - they could cover what the governement dit not pay), but the laws to arrange how it's going to work are yet to be passed.

 

My personal opinion is, while it's the best system, it has to be looked at and rearranged regularly, to avoid situations like the one we have now. It can work very well, but it has to be handled carefully. A few countries, whose name are not coming to mind right now, have a mix of public and private systems, and it seems to work well. But I definitely think that private health insurance companies should not have the whole field and rule everything.

[Carolyn the Red]

Michael Moore's new movie has some friends of mine arguing about socialized medicine, "People who live in countries with Socialized medicine aren't getting quality care!" "They have to wait for weeks on waiting lists." "Then they have to take substandard treatment." Moore's movie doesn't even address this claim, (He just shows nice clean hospitals, happy people who receive the best care) Which is the truth? You who live in these countries please respond!

 

Some years ago, in Quebec, when my mother had her first hip replacement, she was a subject in a study which compared outcomes of hip and knee replacements in a few hospitals, some Canadian, some American. Yes, she had to wait a few months from being referred to surgery to getting the surgery (would have been a bit longer, but she got a cancellation slot). She got a copy of the study when it was published. There was in interesting conclusion in that study: The patients in the American centres did not have time on a waiting list, but their arthritis was more advanced, on average, when they got their surgery. This was, apparently, because the American patients did not get insurance approval for the surgery until their condition was more severe, or delayed the surgery due to expense. No, I can't find the study online, I think it was published in 1994. But it's coloured how I think about waiting lists, that they don't tell the whole story about delays in treatment. Yes, there are sometimes delays that there shouldn't be, but they really try to triage. Sometimes there just aren't enough resources, and some of the administrative decisions that have been made have been wrongheaded, but there seems to be a general sentiment that everyone should have access to health care.

 

Sometimes there's money questions in what's covered, but that happens with any kind of insurance, and at least the questions are debated publicly. It's complicated, especially since the underlying science changes all the time.

 

My experience is relatively good. If I have anything bothering me, I can go to either my GP or an after-hours clinic, and they'll usually be quite nice to me, and sort out my problem. I've had to wait for referrals occasionally, but not for an emergency. When I've been broke, I haven't had to worry about the wasted expense if it's nothing, and the doctors usually ask about drug insurance before prescribing anything expensive (and offer something cheaper and/or see if they have samples if cost is a problem). I've had some crappy doctors, and some that are amazing (one drew me pictures of the structures of the lungs on the examining table paper, and would always give a few fun facts about whatever problem I brought to him...I liked him) I can switch doctors at any time. When friends and family have been seriously ill, the hospitals have sometimes been grim, and the doctors, not always perfect, but they didn't need to really worry about money. When my husband had a nasty infection in his leg last year, he went off to the doctor every couple days for a few weeks, so they could keep track and make sure it was resolving, we didn't even have to think about the cost, and didn't consider skipping appointments to save money. My father had a pile of diagnostic tests all within a week of a crisis last year. Really, most of us just assume that if we really need it, we'll get care, and that that's the way it should be.

[Wendybabe]

No they haven't seen Sicko and they wont! They are Fundies to the max! Twice they have tried to change the subject on me (because they know they are busted! and start slamming Castro or Moore!) But I just keep posting what you have said and they have no response. (I can't post the cuss words! As I will be banned from their B.B.) Thanks again! I have learned so much!

[robbie]

I've never been seriously ill myself, but generally I find the NHS (National Health Service) to be OK. I was a bit surprised that when I tried to re-book an appointment the next one wa a few months later, but it wasn't for anything serious so I think it's fair enough.

 

There are of course problems with our hospitals, and those need to be sorted out. But abolishing a system that is free at the point of care is not the answer.

 

I do realise private healthcare can be much better...my cousin went to a wonderful private hospital a while back and was seen and treated immeidately. However, if she'd had an ongoing problem there's no way she could've afforded to pay the money regulalry. Few people I know could, if anyone.

 

I realise it's my culture that has brought about this belief, but I see free healthcare as a basic human right. I, and many others, would be rioting on the street if the NHS was abolished. Life is not a business...the capitalists can go too far. Life is a right.

[Casey]

I'd appreciate some American comment on this. It seems to me in Australia, where we have much the same system that Americans have although thankfully so far without the horrific deficiencies, that this fellow raises a few good points:

 

Lowering the Cost of Health Care

 

As a medical doctor, I’ve seen first-hand how bureaucratic red tape interferes with the doctor-patient relationship and drives costs higher. The current system of third-party payers takes decision-making away from doctors, leaving patients feeling rushed and worsening the quality of care. Yet health insurance premiums and drug costs keep rising. Clearly a new approach is needed. Congress needs to craft innovative legislation that makes health care more affordable without raising taxes or increasing the deficit. It also needs to repeal bad laws that keep health care costs higher than necessary.

 

We should remember that HMOs did not arise because of free-market demand, but rather because of government mandates. The HMO Act of 1973 requires all but the smallest employers to offer their employees HMO coverage, and the tax code allows businesses – but not individuals – to deduct the cost of health insurance premiums. The result is the illogical coupling of employment and health insurance, which often leaves the unemployed without needed catastrophic coverage.

 

While many in Congress are happy to criticize HMOs today, the public never hears how the present system was imposed upon the American people by federal law. As usual, government intervention in the private market failed to deliver the promised benefits and caused unintended consequences, but Congress never blames itself for the problems created by bad laws. Instead, we are told more government – in the form of “universal coverage” – is the answer. But government already is involved in roughly two-thirds of all health care spending, through Medicare, Medicaid, and other programs.

 

For decades, the U.S. healthcare system was the envy of the entire world. Not coincidentally, there was far less government involvement in medicine during this time. America had the finest doctors and hospitals, patients enjoyed high-quality, affordable medical care, and thousands of private charities provided health services for the poor. Doctors focused on treating patients, without the red tape and threat of lawsuits that plague the profession today. Most Americans paid cash for basic services, and had insurance only for major illnesses and accidents. This meant both doctors and patients had an incentive to keep costs down, as the patient was directly responsible for payment, rather than an HMO or government program.

 

The lesson is clear: when government and other third parties get involved, health care costs spiral. The answer is not a system of outright socialized medicine, but rather a system that encourages everyone – doctors, hospitals, patients, and drug companies – to keep costs down. As long as “somebody else” is paying the bill, the bill will be too high.

 

The following are bills Congress should pass to reduce health care costs and leave more money in the pockets of families:

 

HR 3075 provides truly comprehensive health care reform by allowing families to claim a tax credit for the rising cost of health insurance premiums. With many families now spending close to $1000 or even more for their monthly premiums, they need real tax relief – including a dollar-for-dollar credit for every cent they spend on health care premiums – to make medical care more affordable.

HR 3076 is specifically designed to address the medical malpractice crisis that threatens to drive thousands of American doctors – especially obstetricians – out of business. The bill provides a dollar-for-dollar tax credit that permits consumers to purchase "negative outcomes" insurance prior to undergoing surgery or other serious medical treatments. Negative outcomes insurance is a novel approach that guarantees those harmed receive fair compensation, while reducing the burden of costly malpractice litigation on the health care system. Patients receive this insurance payout without having to endure lengthy lawsuits, and without having to give away a large portion of their award to a trial lawyer. This also drastically reduces the costs imposed on physicians and hospitals by malpractice litigation. Under HR 3076, individuals can purchase negative outcomes insurance at essentially no cost.

 

HR 3077 makes it more affordable for parents to provide health care for their children. It creates a $500 per child tax credit for medical expenses and prescription drugs that are not reimbursed by insurance. It also creates a $3,000 tax credit for dependent children with terminal illnesses, cancer, or disabilities. Parents who are struggling to pay for their children's medical care, especially when those children have serious health problems or special needs, need every extra dollar.

 

HR 3078 is commonsense, compassionate legislation for those suffering from cancer or other terminal illnesses. The sad reality is that many patients battling serious illnesses will never collect Social Security benefits – yet they continue to pay into the Social Security system. When facing a medical crisis, those patients need every extra dollar to pay for medical care, travel, and family matters. HR 3078 waives the employee portion of Social Security payroll taxes (or self-employment taxes) for individuals with documented serious illnesses or cancer. It also suspends Social Security taxes for primary caregivers with a sick spouse or child. There is no justification or excuse for collecting Social Security taxes from sick individuals who literally are fighting for their lives.

 

August 23, 2006

(Emphases mine)

Casey

[Astreja]

I live in Canada and have no major complaints about the system. My partner had to go to Emergency for an inflamed gall bladder and pancreatitis. We had to wait an hour or so, but she was admitted. She spent ten days in hospital and had her gall bladder removed. Cost to us (not counting our tax dollars) = Nil.

 

This year I had to get X-rays and an MRI of my right knee. The X-ray was walk in on my lunch hour, click, walk out. MRI was originally supposed to be a wait of up to six months, but the local health authority subcontracted some of the work to a private clinic and I got the scan done after about two weeks. Again, no charge.

 

Managing a system like the Canadian one is simply a matter of triage: Heart attacks trump splinters in the butt, as well they should. Walk-in clinics handle most of the non-emergency cases anyway. These can be quite busy, so it's still best to have a family doctor where one can make appointments.

[Lycorth]

I was opposed to the idea of socialized medicine for the longest time, and am still concerned about the long-term effects of letting the gaggle of pirates we call the "government" have a hand in healthcare, but making it affordable is more important.

 

I recall the staggering bills my parents incurred for my mother's cancer treatments - we nearly lost our house and everything we had, all for something that could've been provided for a hell of a lot less. But no one gives a shit when the almighty dollar is at stake.

[Unknowing1]

Thanks for the responses, Unknowing, Vig, Scead, Please let me know what country you are talking about.

 

The good ole US of A.

 

The hospital that did the surgery on my brother-in-law didn't have the necessary plastic surgeon on staff so shortly after the surgery she had to drive him to another hospital in order to have the wound that remained from the removal of a golf ball sized mass closed. Nice, really nice...he also was exposed to Agent Orange while in Vietnam which they felt had something to do with his cancer....

 

As for the retirees, they can pay up to $1259 for health insurance coverage per month, have a $200.00 deductable per insured and a $25/$35 co pay on visits along with $35/presciption. No wonder they can't afford to retire, let alone eat or pay for their medication.

[Vigile]

It's impossible to have a strong opinion on such a complicated issue I think. It does seem that there is something majorly wrong with the US med system though. If free market systems in other countries are dramatically cheaper, like qualified private clinics in Russia and India are, then something is wrong.

 

The problem with cost seems to be related to the fact that insurance companies and HMOs have paid off politicians for policies favorable to themselves. This is my impression, but I am admittedly ignorant on the subject, so my impression may be entirely off base. If so, however, then the US does not have a free market system, but as Burned put it, an oligarchical system.

 

The alternative that seems to be offered is a socialist program. I'm not sure it would be an improvement. Socialist medicine could never be like socialist medicine in Europe or Canada (not that going that route is a good alternative to begin with). They would have to rebuild it from the ground up, and I just don't see it happening in my lifetime. Moreover, if Americans think their taxes are now high, they should just try going the route of socialism and see how they like it.

 

The experiences of people like CelloChick are unacceptable in a rich, civilized, empathetic society. It seems to me that some form of insurance reform along with the introduction of true market forces to the US system (which should lower prices a lot) could go a long ways toward making sure that everyone's costs go down, that people like CC are not swept under the rug, and that HMO execs are forced out of their helocopters and back into their Caddies.

 

Calls for socialism in the US are just going to lead to more bullshit like what Rob described occured in MA in his shocking post on the previous page. Now if someone would just post a reasonable insurance/HMO reform solution, perhaps we can all look at it and critic its pros and cons.

 

*Musings of an uninformed consumer*

[Anad]

Michael Moore's new movie has some friends of mine arguing about socialized medicine, "People who live in countries with Socialized medicine aren't getting quality care!" "They have to wait for weeks on waiting lists." "Then they have to take substandard treatment." Moore's movie doesn't even address this claim, (He just shows nice clean hospitals, happy people who receive the best care) Which is the truth? You who live in these countries please respond!

 

 

Ah, your friends don't have a fuckin' clue what they are talking about. A friend of mine in Sweden laughs at this kind of bullshit while he is well taken care of by doctors for free.

 

I've seen people die in emergency waiting rooms here in the states while the people that brought them in argued with the hospital about the persons lack of insurance.

 

Maybe you need new friends.

[R. S. Martin]

Ooops my bad... was talking about Canada - with some breif visits to the US healthcare system on two visits.

 

I don't quite understand why anyone was asking where you're from. You say so under your name that you are from Canada.

 

As is evident, I am from Canada, too. If what we have is socialized medicine, then it doesn't cover everything. I had to pay fifty dollars for an ambulance ride a few years ago--I think it was in 2000. I have to dish out over a hundred a month just to control migraine headaches. That does not seem like socialized medicine to me. Doctor's visits and hospital are free but not the medicine. My guess is some of these things differ from province to province. I'm in Ontario. So far as I can figure out, healthcare seems to be on the provincial level.