Reverend AtheiStar Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 Hello all, I just wanted to announce my upcoming book is four pages into chapter 3! It's a project I started back in February, the day after Valentine's Day to be exact, when I took two weeks off from work. That's when I got a great deal of what I have, now, done. I've been struggling since then to find the time, energy and motivation to keep going with it. I've managed, though, to crank out 37 pages so far and it's looking very, very nice! The main thesis, obviously, is that if there be a creator deity, than it is clearly evil and delights in our torture. In the first four chapters, Biological, Environmental, Cosmological and Mythological, all the evidence for this hypothetical hypothesis will be laid out for the reader to examine for themselves. The only problem I've had is trying to limit what I present as there's just too much! ~RAS Founder of FSA Reverend AtheiStar Free Speech Atheists Malevolent Design 7 Day Atheist Challenge Believerbots Battered Believer's Syndrome Join my group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Free_Speech_Atheists/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 Hey there, Reverend AtheiStar! I tend to disagree with your "Malevolent Design" concept mostly because for many years when I was a believer I experienced an incredibly loving God. Whether that was all in my head and the product of the power of belief or from a real God (whether the Christian god or not) doesn't really matter in the end, I suppose. The experience was definitely real. There is an emotional block keeping me from being comfortable with the concept of God being evil. It just doesn't compute for me, even though either you or I could easily reference verses in the bible showing God either ordering or directly committing mass murder or genocide. Go figure. But, that aside, I thought you might find it interesting that this South African ex-Christian has apparently come up with the same concept independently...sort of like Darwin and that um, other guy , did with evolution. Here's the link to his relevant post: http://mexc.blogspot.com/2005/11/malicious-design.html Congratulations on the progress with your glorious book! Let me know when it's published. I definitely want a copy of it! Glory! Also, make sure to back your work up to CD or something. Don't give the Talking Snake or his evil spooks any opportunity to work their diabolical magic against you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend AtheiStar Posted July 8, 2007 Author Share Posted July 8, 2007 I tend to disagree with your "Malevolent Design" concept mostly because for many years when I was a believer I experienced an incredibly loving God. Whether that was all in my head and the product of the power of belief or from a real God (whether the Christian god or not) doesn't really matter in the end, I suppose. The experience was definitely real. I just call it like the universe clearly spells it out. If there be a god, then it is clearly an evil being who loves to see us suffer. Why else would there be mosquitos and malaria, West Nile virus, Dengue fever, yellow fever and viral encephalitis. What kind of loving father would eeven create just these examples to bestow upon it's children? As a father myself, I am disgusted by the very thought of the kind of sick monster it would take to do such a thing. And, as you know, that's just the tip of the iceberg ( another good example)! There is an emotional block keeping me from being comfortable with the concept of God being evil. It just doesn't compute for me, even though either you or I could easily reference verses in the bible showing God either ordering or directly committing mass murder or genocide. Go figure. Such is the nature of religious programming. You've been trained, much like Pavlov's dog, to associate all your happy, loving experiences with the idea of a god. Once that programming is set in your mind, it doesn't matter what horrible things you can show this god would be responsible for, you just can't see it. I like to call it Battered Believer's Syndrome. But, that aside, I thought you might find it interesting that this South African ex-Christian has apparently come up with the same concept independently...sort of like Darwin and that um, other guy , did with evolution. Here's the link to his relevant post: http://mexc.blogspot.com/2005/11/malicious-design.html Actually, I'm glad that other people can see what I see. It'd be awful hard if I had to spread this idea all by myself! Besides it's just a more modern version of the argument from evil (inspired by the recent explosion of ID idiocy) -- which is ancient! Congratulations on the progress with your glorious book! Let me know when it's published. I definitely want a copy of it! Glory! Thank you, Jeff. Yes, it's coming along very nicely, albeit painfully slowly. I just can't spend as much time on the computer as I used to. The wife and kids always want to go out and do stuf, as do I, and so it's really hard to find time to sit down and crack out the pages. Also, make sure to back your work up to CD or something. Don't give the Talking Snake or his evil spooks any opportunity to work their diabolical magic against you! I haven't backed it up on CD, but I recently bought a new printer and printed out a copy! Oh, it was cool! It had weight to it and it excited me to think of how heavy the finished project will be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend AtheiStar Posted July 8, 2007 Author Share Posted July 8, 2007 But, that aside, I thought you might find it interesting that this South African ex-Christian has apparently come up with the same concept independently...sort of like Darwin and that um, other guy , did with evolution. Here's the link to his relevant post: http://mexc.blogspot.com/2005/11/malicious-design.html I wrote him: I've come up with the same hypothetical hypothesis but named it something a little different, Malevolent Design. I'm currently writing a book on the subject. I have a MySpace page devoted to it, as well: http://www.myspace.com/malevolent_design --------------------------------------------------------------- p.s. That 'other guy' was Alfred Russel Wallace and yes, I suppose it is a bit of a kick in the ass to see someone else with pretty much the same thing (though not as thorough - he's just focused on the biological) written out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend AtheiStar Posted July 8, 2007 Author Share Posted July 8, 2007 Hey Rev, Longtime no see. It's cool that you are writing a book. You will have to provide advanced copies to us...LOL...just kidding. Good luck! Yeah, I've been gone from this place for quite some time. It's nice to be back, thanks. It's not like I have been twiddling my thumbs, though. I've been very busy. My group, Free Speech Atheists, is up to 117 members and quite active. I've created a total of six MySpace pages to spread the good word. I've defeated numerous theistic adversaries from YouTube to Answerbag to MySpace and sent these battles out across cyberspace for all to see. My book, which I'm amazed even exists, is really coming together and I'm sure will get the attention of theists across the globe. I'm thinking I'll probably even get some rebuttal books like Dawkin's did! And lastly, but certainly not least, we're expecting! Our new baby girl, which my wife has named Cady Storm (the first name taken from the Atheist feminist philosopher, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, and the middle from X-Men -- as per our tradition) is due somewhere between the 26th of Spetember and the 4th of October! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtheistMommy Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Hello all, I just wanted to announce my upcoming book is four pages into chapter 3! It's a project I started back in February, the day after Valentine's Day to be exact, when I took two weeks off from work. That's when I got a great deal of what I have, now, done. I've been struggling since then to find the time, energy and motivation to keep going with it. I've managed, though, to crank out 37 pages so far and it's looking very, very nice! The main thesis, obviously, is that if there be a creator deity, than it is clearly evil and delights in our torture. In the first four chapters, Biological, Environmental, Cosmological and Mythological, all the evidence for this hypothetical hypothesis will be laid out for the reader to examine for themselves. The only problem I've had is trying to limit what I present as there's just too much! ~RAS Founder of FSA Reverend AtheiStar Free Speech Atheists Malevolent Design 7 Day Atheist Challenge Believerbots Battered Believer's Syndrome Join my group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Free_Speech_Atheists/ That means in just a few more months you will have been working on it for almost a year. I suppose when the baby is born you're going to be working on it more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 AtheistMommy, I have removed you from my ignore list. I was rather pissed off at you there for a while, but I'm willing to let bygones be bygones if you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend AtheiStar Posted July 9, 2007 Author Share Posted July 9, 2007 That means in just a few more months you will have been working on it for almost a year. I suppose when the baby is born you're going to be working on it more? Hey now, Feb. 15th will be the one year anniversary! That's seven months away! My pace has been slow, but damn, not that slow! lol... Yeah, when I have some time off from work is when I'll actually get a lot done. Right now I'm lucky if I get two pages out! I was thinking of taking off the week surrounding your due dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Malaria is a great thing. It kept us out of the lungs of the planet for generations. There is a school of thought that sickle cell anaemia is a partial adaptation to living with malarial parasites. When the parasite tries to infest a blood cell it sickles, thus killing the parasite. Unfortunately, the early adaptation means about a 5th of carriers suffer the anaemia, since their blood cells sickle when not under attack. However, I don't see malaria as evidence of a malign god, just nature keeping one of her more wayward children under control... unfortunately, we slipped out the back door while she was looking else where... when you can see fires burning and the landscape changing colour from space due to our actions, then malaria seems a pretty benign response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babelfish Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 However, I don't see malaria as evidence of a malign god, just nature keeping one of her more wayward children under control... unfortunately, we slipped out the back door while she was looking else where... when you can see fires burning and the landscape changing colour from space due to our actions, then malaria seems a pretty benign response. It seems as though his thesis is not that malaria et al are evidence for a malevolent god, but that if a creator exists, the case for his malevolence is far greater than that for his benevolence given the varied and painful things he/she/it (hypothetically) created to kill us off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 I'd agree, but malaria is a bad example of malignity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scitsofreaky Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 I'd agree, but malaria is a bad example of malignity. Well, I think that it assumes that we are the focus of the deity. From a purely human perspective, malaria seems malignant, especially to those who get it... repeatedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend AtheiStar Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 However, I don't see malaria as evidence of a malign god, just nature keeping one of her more wayward children under control... unfortunately, we slipped out the back door while she was looking else where... when you can see fires burning and the landscape changing colour from space due to our actions, then malaria seems a pretty benign response. It seems as though his thesis is not that malaria et al are evidence for a malevolent god, but that if a creator exists, the case for his malevolence is far greater than that for his benevolence given the varied and painful things he/she/it (hypothetically) created to kill us off. Yes, that is exactly it. That's why I called Malevolent Design a hypothetical hypothesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend AtheiStar Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 I'd agree, but malaria is a bad example of malignity. Tell that to the parents who lose children to it. Tell that to the husbands and children who lose both their mother/wife and their unborn child/sibling. A million people die annually do to this disease, most of them are pregnant women and children. Are you really so cold as to not see the malevolence of the situation? As a father and husband of a pregnant wife I know I can. Perhaps, though, if this parasite and the massive suffering it causes fails to register for you, I list a great many more examples in the Biological chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend AtheiStar Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 I'd agree, but malaria is a bad example of malignity. Well, I think that it assumes that we are the focus of the deity. From a purely human perspective, malaria seems malignant, especially to those who get it... repeatedly. Yes, if there be a god who created both the mosquito and malaria to travel along inside it, you have to ask what said god's motives would be in designing these two beings -- especially if we are supposed to be the dralings of a 'loving' deity! The answer is crystal clear: Malevolent Design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend AtheiStar Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 Malaria is a great thing. It kept us out of the lungs of the planet for generations. There is a school of thought that sickle cell anaemia is a partial adaptation to living with malarial parasites. When the parasite tries to infest a blood cell it sickles, thus killing the parasite. Unfortunately, the early adaptation means about a 5th of carriers suffer the anaemia, since their blood cells sickle when not under attack. However, I don't see malaria as evidence of a malign god, just nature keeping one of her more wayward children under control... unfortunately, we slipped out the back door while she was looking else where... when you can see fires burning and the landscape changing colour from space due to our actions, then malaria seems a pretty benign response. As an Atheist, I don't either. I just see it as an epic evolutionary battle between two species. It's the brutality of nature in living color in all its godless glory. But, if we suppose there is an allegedly loving god who created both a pathogen and a highly successful vector (the best in the world, actually) you have to wonder where the 'loving' comes in. I can't see it and not a single theist has been able to rescue their god from these allegations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Simple: God invent malaria to keep us from areas important to the well being of the whole planet, including us... thus, when we defeated malaria, we were under Satan's power, going against the loving hand of God. The good shepherd controls and protects his flock. Thus if one or two are lost to disease, it's for the good of the flock. And the loss of an occasional loved one is no more than God did for us all upon the Cross in the form of his only begotten son. GLORY! (That, btw, is as close as I've seen to a Christian response to why did God create malaria) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend AtheiStar Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 Simple: God invent malaria to keep us from areas important to the well being of the whole planet, including us... thus, when we defeated malaria, we were under Satan's power, going against the loving hand of God. The good shepherd controls and protects his flock. Thus if one or two are lost to disease, it's for the good of the flock. And the loss of an occasional loved one is no more than God did for us all upon the Cross in the form of his only begotten son. GLORY! (That, btw, is as close as I've seen to a Christian response to why did God create malaria) That's not the answer I usually get. The most common is that it was because of the 'fall of man' that their god had to radically redesign the universe in order to punish every generation that would come after - despite the fact that this same god would've known that they would sin and in the exact manner in which they would do so. It was a set up from an omniscient perspective. They, though, for some odd reason, don't see the malevolence in that. I blame Battered Believer's Syndrome. It's characterized by the inability to see anything bad about their imaginary abuser. No matter what he does, he's loving. It's such a strange human psychological phenomena! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 You must admit, mine is more logical... Use it on one sometime and watch their brain melt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend AtheiStar Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 You must admit, mine is more logical... Use it on one sometime and watch their brain melt... Yours is definitely more funny, as it goes against common assumptions of Christians. How dare you even attempt eradicate one of God's creations, malaria! You must be under Satan's power! lol... But logical? I'd only agree if you place 'mytho' before it! lol... If I want to mindfuck a Christian I start going into the verses that show that free will is an illusion. It blows so many of their arguments that they, if you do it in real life, really look like they feel dizzy! It's so funny! lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saviourmachine Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Malaria is a great thing. It kept us out of the lungs of the planet for generations. There is a school of thought that sickle cell anaemia is a partial adaptation to living with malarial parasites. When the parasite tries to infest a blood cell it sickles, thus killing the parasite. Unfortunately, the early adaptation means about a 5th of carriers suffer the anaemia, since their blood cells sickle when not under attack.The main school of thought is that it's a genetic disease. It normally reduces the chance on survival. It's a protection against malaria. So, in those countries it's the other way around, it increases the chance on survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 If you apply external logic to it, then it's insane. Internally it is wholly self supporting, proves God's 'love' and puts a good spin on something that is pretty nasty (although I am so cold to think that we'd have been better not to have cured that particular disease) It has the advantage that it's brief... the usual Christian exegetical argument over such things is massive and baroque. The downside is it could just convince them that all medicines are of 'the devil' since God gave us the gift of disease to stop us killing all his creation in our fallen state... There again, if that wipes them out of the Gene pool I may have to set up a church based on the idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Malaria is a great thing. It kept us out of the lungs of the planet for generations. There is a school of thought that sickle cell anaemia is a partial adaptation to living with malarial parasites. When the parasite tries to infest a blood cell it sickles, thus killing the parasite. Unfortunately, the early adaptation means about a 5th of carriers suffer the anaemia, since their blood cells sickle when not under attack.The main school of thought is that it's a genetic disease. It normally reduces the chance on survival. It's a protection against malaria. So, in those countries it's the other way around, it increases the chance on survival. It's not a 'genetic disease' unless you sickle when not exposed to the parasite. As I said, it's an adaptation to the malarial parasitoid on humanity's part. Probably evidence of our in herently fallen nature as our very DNA begins to revolt against the LORD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend AtheiStar Posted July 12, 2007 Author Share Posted July 12, 2007 If you apply external logic to it, then it's insane. Internally it is wholly self supporting, proves God's 'love' and puts a good spin on something that is pretty nasty (although I am so cold to think that we'd have been better not to have cured that particular disease) It has the advantage that it's brief... the usual Christian exegetical argument over such things is massive and baroque. The downside is it could just convince them that all medicines are of 'the devil' since God gave us the gift of disease to stop us killing all his creation in our fallen state... There again, if that wipes them out of the Gene pool I may have to set up a church based on the idea... There's already a few sects of Christianity that preach this. No blood transfusions, no medicine, none of those fancy hospital trips. Oh no, a True Christian™ needs none of this. If the lawd don't heal it, you were just meant to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Yup. I like those sects, since it appeals to the tiny bit of Sir Francis Galton in my soul... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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