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Why do I still have a slight fear of Hell?


bluewizard

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Why do I still have a slight fear of dying and going to Hell? Something in my head tells me just become an xtian, everything will be ok, but I am smarter as an atheist and know I would go back to atheism the next day. I don't even believe in any god or gods. i have been an atheist since February but why is this happening?

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Why do I still have a slight fear of dying and going to Hell?  Something in my head tells me just become an xtian, everything will be ok, but I am smarter as an atheist and know I would go back to atheism the next day.  I don't even believe in any god or gods.  i  have been an atheist since February but why is this happening?

That is one of the powerful mechanisms of Christianity. What keeps so many people in it is some sort of lockins, and this is one of them.

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Guest JP1283

I know how you feel, Blue. People always say to look forward, but when I do I get scared about hell. One day it won't bother us anymore.

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...why is this happening?

 

Old habits die hard. :Wendywhatever:

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For me, fear is not always rational it's just another emotion.

After years of programming it takes a while to relearn rational thinking and fully dismiss mythology.

 

PR

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It's kind of scary, isn't it, blue? Guess what - it's meant to be. Fear is one of the primary tactics that the bible uses. And it is effective. It has struck terror into the hearts of men for 2,000 years.

 

I was afraid to leave christianity for 25 years. Off and on I did kind of leave it. But during those times I always kind of assumed it was true, and that the problem was me. I just couldn't live up to it. So, off and on, I lived in fear and depression all these years.

 

This time, I decided that something wasn't right, and it wasn't with me. So I started to educate myself about things. Learn. Gain Knowledge.

 

These are the things that broke the bible's power over me. Once you come to understand that christianity is nothing special, it's no more valid than any other pagan myth, then fear is no more.

 

Read. Then, when a bible thumper starts hitting you over the head, you can just smile and thump em right back.

 

If you like to read, here is a suggestion as a starter:

 

The Jesus Mysteries. By Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy

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In addition to books about the history of Christianity, etc., I would suggest reading some books about the human brain. A couple good ones are "Phantoms in the Brain" by V. S. Ramachandran, and "What makes you tick? the brain in plain English" by Thomas Czerzner. You'll find there's plenty of evidence that the things we do know about the brain all seem to point to a materialist/reductionist view, and nothing we know about the brain points to any sort of immortal soul, or to the brain as a kind of radio, receiving soul waves from the spirit world, or any other such nonsense. Essentially, the more you know about the brain and how it works, the more it becomes totally and completely obvious that there can be no afterlife and that the notion is just plain ridiculous, and so there is no hell to fear.

 

And BTW, those books I found just plain fascinating, so they shouldn't be a chore to read.

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I think Purple Rhino is right on. Fear (an emotional reaction) has nothing to do with logic or rational thought. Just because your logical mind has come to a decision you're happy and comfortable with, it may take a while longer for your emotional side to come around. Your fear of Hell was a long-standing fear, so it can't be expected to just turn off like a switch. Don't worry, though. It may take some time to let go of, but gradually your fear will get less and less.

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Why do I still have a slight fear of dying and going to Hell?  Something in my head tells me just become an xtian, everything will be ok, but I am smarter as an atheist and know I would go back to atheism the next day.  I don't even believe in any god or gods.  i  have been an atheist since February but why is this happening?

 

Thats the fun part of emotianal abuse, exactly what Christianity uses to keep us in. That good book plays with your mind, and fear is the best method to use to use. You will have to learn to accept that it was all a lie and there is no such thing as Hell. There is nothing to fear or save yourself from other than people trying to convince you that the slight fear is God trying to talk you back into his light. Im sure it probably does look like going back to Christianity will give you a safety net to fall on IF there is a hell. But even in their own good book, there was no such thing till some cruel person said, hey lets scare them into following us. Stop worrying about it, im sure your a great person and you should be enjoying life and living it up while your here. And if there is a hell, just tell God next time to make his presence really known to us and we would be more likely to play follow the leader.

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Bluewizard, this question has come up many times, both historically and on this board. This site has been through (I think) four incarnations and I joined on the second one. At that time, Reach (when she was still a Christian) and Lokmer decided to do a collaboration thread on the Hell doctrine.

 

It was absolutely excellent! One of the finest threads I've ever seen, with many people offering extremely pertinent experiences, thoughts and observations.

 

That thread is archived here: To Hell With Hell

 

Many thanks to Sex Kitten who did the work of archiving threads like this one when we switched boards. Unfortunately, the archiving software didn't save the posts as seperate, and other things were lost such as avatars, and text differences like bolding, italics, underlining and so on. Also, the software chopped off the end of the thread without SK knowing it would do so, so the end is missing.

 

Bluewizard, I strongly suggest that you go read To Hell With Hell.

 

Here is a copy of my main post on that thread:

_____________________

 

Posted by: Loren Apr 12 2004, 02:08 PM

 

This is really to Nightbreeze, but there were some other things I wanted to address quickly, first.

 

Deep thanks to Reach and Lokmer for this thread and the way you two are going about it! The conjoining of two minds of differing perspectives is exactly the kind of action needed to start healing these grievous wounds. Obviously, two thousand years of leaving it in the hands of the clergy has certainly not healed a god damned thing. I love that you took it into your own hands.

 

Thanks also to all those who contributed excellent information, particularly channelcat.

 

FF, I agree completely that the eternal damnation doctrine is the gun to the heads of the population. As was mentioned, this is not exactly something Jesus actually taught. I do think that without it, there is no need for salvation in Jesus as current Christian doctrine defines it.

However, in looking at the teachings of Jesus, especially in non canonical works like the Gospel of Thomas, I tend to see the very same flavor of teaching present in works like the Tao Te Ching. Taken from such a perspective, I could easily put a more workable alternate slant on the "Hell" teachings as being about the kind of hell we all create for ourselves in this life as a result of our actions. In that sense, salvation becomes the action of living and doing as closely as possible to the way Jesus did for the same reasons, and Jesus becomes the principle or current of right action working within a person.

The need to "accept" Jesus as "savior" turns from an act of legalistic parroting of a magic mantra into a life-changing redirection of actions and motives which, if followed, is pretty much guaranteed to produce better and happier results than a life of selfishness.

In that sense, I could see an actual salvation from hell in Jesus, but it's a far cry from what most Christians think it is. Also, it doesn't require anyone to be of any particular religion at all, just that they make an effort to live rightly.

After all I've been through, and all I've read on the subject, it's my very strong opinion that some form of the above is more like what most of the original Christians taught.

Or I could be completely wrong. Just my opinion at this point. I definitely agree with all that whatever the original was, it got hyjacked early by rotten bastards for base political purposes to great and horrific effect.

 

 

 

Nightbreeze, what can I say? The things you've expressed just tear my heart. Normally, I would tackle the issue with cognitive/doctrinal stuff, but you already have all that and you're still in a hell of your own because of what's been done to you. Clearly, cognitive/doctrinal is not what you need. Reach and I were iming the other day about this and I dropped a term I once heard which summed up the whole Hell doctrine in a concise chunk. She and Lok haven't used it yet, so I'll drop it here.

 

 

Neurological sabotage.

 

This is what has been done to you.

 

Neurological sabotage.

 

This is the primary reason these doctrines make me want to beat the shit out of whoever's responsible.

 

Neurological sabotage.

 

Did you know that you have two distinct systems for memory retention? One is short term, the other, long term. From a neurochemical standpoint, they work quite differently. Your short term memory is not meant to be kept on file for any length of time. However, if you want to put something in your long term memory, simply focus your attention on it for seven to fifteen seconds. When you do, it becomes chemically encoded in the cells of your nervous systems. (Yes, I said nervous systems, plural.) I'll get back to that in a moment.

 

So when a piece of data gets encoded into your long term memory, it actually becomes a permanent, physical part of your body. Trust me, it works. It is often used against people by those who truly are not their friends, and it's remarkably effective. It's all about mind control techniques, brother. This is how some of them work.

 

Now to the multiple nervous systems thing. You have at least two main nervous systems, and a bunch of interlocked subsystems. One of the two is for dealing with common, everyday, non threatening situations such as digestion and respiration. The other is for dealing with life threatening situations. That's the one that gives you that burst of adrenaline and that sort of thing. You've heard of the fight or flight response? That would be that nervous system taking over. It's great in short, intense situations, but is not meant to "left running" for long periods. Such is very detrimental to the health. So here we have another general mind control technique: Fears which keep the fight or flight response in a constant state of activation are inserted in the long term memory. The person is then in a certifiable altered state of consciousness and usually pretty controllable by others, if the others have taken pains to be imprinted on the victim as trustworthy.

 

Fear is a very effective way of putting someone in an extremely neurologically imprintable state.

Ask Randon. He'll tell you.

 

One of the things I've learned which has been useful in my own life has been the shamanic approach. It is often observed by the shaman that the mind of the body does not know the difference between fantasy and reality. After all, everything you experience is a set of coded interpretations of

your sense impressions. The parts of you that make the decision of which nervous system is right for the moment don't understand that the pictures in your head are not really happening. Does this make sense to you? You can see it happen when you think about sex, for instance. Even though it isn't happening, your body reacts as though it were. Fantasizing about something that makes you angry is another example. Even though the actual situation may be long dead in the past, your body reacts as though it's happening now.

 

This little shamanic tidbit can be used to great effect if you make a deliberate choice about what you want to have going on in your head. It has been used against you by others. It's time for you to stop allowing criminals and theological perverts to have access to your nervous systems! This is a small, but very useful tool here, Nightbreeze. Do with it what you will.

 

 

Childrens' brains and nervous systems don't stop developing for many years after they are born. There is definitely a period of super imprintability in youth.

 

This (among other things) is what has been done to you.

 

Neurological sabotage.

 

WHO WOULD DO SUCH A THING TO A CHILD?!?!

 

Part of the answer, of course, is someone who has had it done to them. They are simply propagating their own mind control programming, as they were instructed to do.

 

As I said, I really don't have any doctrinal stuff for you that you don't already have. And as I said, it tears holes in me that this shit has been done to you when you were too young to defend yourself.

 

I wish I could speak with you for a while face to face. I don't have any idea if what I've said here will be of any use to you, but I hope it will. You are in need of such deep healing, just like any other victim of deep mind control abuse. It will take a while, brother. Just don't give up. An evil spell has been cast on you. You have to fight your way out.

 

But you can do it. I know you can. All this horrific shit has been done to you. The real question now is, what are you going to do about it?

 

Much love,

Loren

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But even in their own good book, there was no such thing till some cruel person said, hey lets scare them into following us.
Interesting to notice which cruel person that was, too. I don't understand why almost everybody, even non-Christians, seem to think Jesus was some great role model. I found him to be pretty much a prick when I read the Gospels.
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It is the fear of hell that drove me away from Christianity.

 

It is the fear of hell that made me question that decision.

 

It is the fear of hell that would still be there if I returned.

 

All we have to fear is fear itself.

 

 

Only men would use such a tool. It is beneath the attributes of any kind of universal creator.

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I also have a problem right now with people saying God has something meant for every1. if you don't become an xtian, you're not being loyal to God or faithful or the preacher saying he was called by God to be a preacher only makes things even more cloudy. People saying God talks to them, that is my other problem with xtianity besides hell right now.

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I also have a problem right now with people saying God has something meant for every1.  if you don't become an xtian, you're not being loyal to God or faithful or the preacher saying he was called by God to be a preacher only makes things even more cloudy.  People saying God talks to them, that is my other problem with xtianity besides hell right now.

 

Hey bluewizard. Most anyone here who was a christian for any period of time and got out will tell ya that it's bullshit. "God has a wonderful plan for your life" is old stale baloney. It's another little ploy to make you think that you're really important in God's eyes, and that you'll be messing up his plan if you don't go along with it. Some of us struggled with this shit for years and years before getting free of it. I hope it doesn't take you that long.

 

And God doesn't talk to anyone. Unless they're literally insane.

 

When they say that, corner em. You'll see that the way God "talks to them" is by confirming things to their hearts, by reassuring them. By giving them a peaceful feeling. They'll say God guided them into something. God led me here to you. There's a reason you're hearing about God right now. All bullshit.

 

In the last church I was in, the Pastor there said several times that God revealed something to him that was about to happen. The time came and went, and it didn't happen. When I asked him about it, he acted like I was being a troublemaker. God doesn't talk to people any more than the wall does.

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Hey bluewizard.  Most anyone here who was a christian for any period of time and got out will tell ya that it's bullshit.  "God has a wonderful plan for your life" is old stale baloney.  It's another little ploy to make you think that you're really important in God's eyes, and that you'll be messing up his plan if you don't go along with it.  Some of us struggled with this shit for years and years before getting free of it.  I hope it doesn't take you that long.

 

And God doesn't talk to anyone.  Unless they're literally insane.

 

When they say that, corner em.  You'll see that the way God "talks to them" is by confirming things to their hearts, by reassuring them.  By giving them a peaceful feeling.  They'll say God guided them into something.  God led me here to you.  There's a reason you're hearing about God right now.        All bullshit.

 

In the last church I was in, the Pastor there said several times that God revealed something to him that was about to happen.  The time came and went, and it didn't happen.  When I asked him about it, he acted like I was being a troublemaker.  God doesn't talk to people any more than the wall does.

Ok, I thought they were bs'ing long before I became an atheist about a god talking to them. Even an old woman said God talked to her since 4 am about me needing to become an xtian today. I didn't and I'm glad. this happened the day after X-mas 2004 and my dad took me to the xtian preacher and I wouldn't beocme an xtian.

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I've seen it from both sides. I've BEEN the dude telling someone that "God told me to talk to you". Now I know it's phony.

 

The mind has weird ways of messin with ya. Those books on the workings of the mind are a good idea. I'm gonna get em myself.

 

 

sounds like you're under some pretty intense pressure to convert.

 

Just remember, we're here for ya. Anytime you want to talk.

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Why do I still have a slight fear of dying and going to Hell?

 

Every once in a while, the little "what if?" pops into my head as well. Years of conditioning is hard to break. I know it's completely irrational, but I remind myself that it's all a myth, and eventually it goes away.

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Guest aexapo
Why do I still have a slight fear of dying and going to Hell?  Something in my head tells me just become an xtian, everything will be ok, but I am smarter as an atheist and know I would go back to atheism the next day.  I don't even believe in any god or gods.  i  have been an atheist since February but why is this happening?

 

I think you answered your own question -- you've only been "out" since February. This stuff is all residual conditioning -- it will take some time to get rid of it completely. You may even "run back to God" a time or two, but this will wear off after a while -- when you completely realize (from your bones, not just your head) that it's all a crock of bullshit.

 

From my first flirtation with reason until I went completely out (leaving my religion at first -- then completely giving up on spirituality, life after death, etc.) -- it was a good 10 years. Hopefully, this will go more smoothly for you -- but don't worry about this. It will all go away with time.

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I also have to look at this from a "God" viewpoint. If I was God, would I let any of my creation burn in Hell for eternity for not following one of the many religions that has no proof of being true? No, if I was a God I would let all my creations have paradise. If God exists, which he doesn't in my opinion, would he let me, 1 of his creations burn in Hell for eternity for choosing not to be religious? What kind of God would do that? I know I wouldn't.

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Hey Blue,

 

I left the religion 21 years ago. The emotions do take time to subside. Whenever I felt the fear of hellfire, I thought about all of those people who were very happy not to be christian, and I could not imagine them in hell. So why was I imagining myself. For me, that little exercise sort of brought me out of the fear mode (drilled in since birth) and brought me back to the Land of the Living.

 

Take care. I've enjoyed your posts...very thoughtful and sincere.

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