Primal Humanity

[Antlerman]

This is an unusual post for me on this forum. But the topic of my background in Pentecostal Christianity has come up a couple of times recently with my partner. She and I have talked about how very similar Pentecostalism is to modern Wicca, in that the practice of magic (admittedly I am somewhat ignorant of this area of religious practice) is very similar if not identical.

 

What I recall with some strange attraction within myself that the best times of my Christian experience was within a small city, mid-Montana church that practiced Pentecostalism. I remember summer days where we had the windows of the little church open wide for ventilation, with a big Lutheran church across the street from us. With a mere 20 people, the Pastor's wife at the piano, and the rest of us singing at the top of our lungs as we pounded on the floor with our feet and clapped our hands in repeating rhythms over and over and over, "There is power, power, power, wonder working power....." We resounded through the neigborhood without inhabition and with total abandon.

 

It was ecstasy religion at its finest. It was magic. This is tribalism. This is magic. This is primal humanity.

 

Like I said, this is unusual for those who know me well on this forum for me to talk about this, but it is a curiosity, a consideration to ponder in the experience of humanity.

 

Why is it that as rational as I am, as philosophical as I find myself drawn toward perceiving the world, that I look back with a certain strange fondness towards this time in my life? Is it because it defies my rationality?

 

Most certainly it isn't about some god. That's merely a vehicle for this primalisim. Now layer on top of this visceral human experience the theology of God. And soon you control this common human experience of tapping into a very primal aspect of our humanity, of our social beings, and you kill it! When I went on this quest of going to Bible College in pursuit of becoming a "minister of the Lord", that primal experience was lost. That primal driving force of tapping into something raw and uninhibited in the human experience became layered with theological pseduo-intellectual nonsense. It was never about the Bible or the doctrines. It was about primal humanity.

 

From what I understand, those who practice ritual and forms of Wicca are likewise tapping into this aspect of our humanity. Is this the case, and if so how do you understand this?

[HuaiDan]

I think in the case of Wicca, tapping into that power is more honest and wholesome. There's little subterfuge in a Wiccan ritual, as little as I would actually know about one, but it seems to acknowledge that it is tapping directly into a spirit power that pervades everything in nature. With the xtian ritual, there are several hoops you have to jump through: dying in the spirit, the burden of sin, the guilt, the ecstasy isn't for you, it's for the glorification of god, etc.

[Antlerman]

I think in the case of Wicca, tapping into that power is more honest and wholesome. There's little subterfuge in a Wiccan ritual, as little as I would actually know about one, but it seems to acknowledge that it is tapping directly into a spirit power that pervades everything in nature. With the xtian ritual, there are several hoops you have to jump through: dying in the spirit, the burden of sin, the guilt, the ecstasy isn't for you, it's for the glorification of god, etc.

I can see this, because there is not all this history of control over the experience for the practicioneers. In the church I was in originally, probably to the credit of the pastor out there, he was not into micro-management. It was much more about the experience than the theology. Theology was a loose framework, in a practice I guess. In that enviroment, we "let losse" , so to speak. In a formal education and church setting with hundreds of people, it was never the same.

 

In that sense I can see where a loose, open ended "system" such as Wicca there would be more freedom to explore that primal aspect of our emotions through the vehicle of ritual, ceremony, and abandon.

 

I guess what I'm driving at is that there is something about this abandonment of all our pretenses, our formalities, our socially accepted "selves", that this sort of practice affords us opportunity to explore this face of ourselves. Again, I know it's an unusual line of thought for me to go down here. But I think there is something there worth consideration it seems.

[HuaiDan]

In that sense I can see where a loose, open ended "system" such as Wicca there would be more freedom to explore that primal aspect of our emotions through the vehicle of ritual, ceremony, and abandon.

 

That I have no problem with. You can even get that in a drum circle, seriously. Yeah man, drum circle in the middle of the woods at night, around a campfire, that's some deep shit.

When you start including a bunch of lies and silly mythology, which seem in essence to be completely unrelated to the real primal energy, it just morphs into a form of mind control and orchestrated con game rolled into one.

[BlueGiant]

Just because mythology is involved, doesn't mean it's useless. You're both talking about tapping into a subconcious, primal part of the psyche. It's the kind of place where symbols have a lot more impact, and some of the symbols from mythology, legend, etc are pretty damn usefull in focusing this primal energy you're talking about.

 

I guess it could still be construed as a form of mind control, but in this case it is you doing it to yourself.

[Antlerman]

Just because mythology is involved, doesn't mean it's useless. You're both talking about tapping into a subconcious, primal part of the psyche. It's the kind of place where symbols have a lot more impact, and some of the symbols from mythology, legend, etc are pretty damn usefull in focusing this primal energy you're talking about.

 

I guess it could still be construed as a form of mind control, but in this case it is you doing it to yourself.

Yes, you are correct. Unfortunately I think what has happened to most of us is that we were convinced that the mythology belonged to the priesthood. It's at that point, the experience became controlled by others.

 

So is it possible in you opinion that the myth can be used by the person one it's been defined and controlled by others?

[Lycorth]

From what I understand, those who practice ritual and forms of Wicca are likewise tapping into this aspect of our humanity. Is this the case, and if so how do you understand this?

 

Magic in Wicca is basically defined as the raising of energy to be directed either internally or externally in order to affect a change. Magic in general in the Neopagan world today is pretty much understood like that. It's all about getting your emotional energy all revved up so you can direct it via some form of ritual to cause a change in conformity with your desires.

 

Some Pagans believe there is a supernatural well of energy that one can also tap into, others believe it all comes from within and isn't supernatural at all. I find myself leaning towards the latter and am inclined to believe that if magic genuinely is possible, that's the basic blueprint it follows.

 

In the more modern Pagan religions, like Satanism or Wicca, magical theory and practice is very open-ended. You are encouraged to pick and choose imagery for your ritual space, whatever gods you feel most drawn to (or none at all), or whatever you feel is most emotionally stimulating. Wicca (and Satanism) both do have their own unique flavor and approach to magic as per their own general aesthetical structure, but open-endedness and the concept of tailoring the ritual to those who are engaging in it is considered important. Wicca especially has come a long way in this regard, in comparison to the rather strict and somewhat anal form Gerald Gardner introduced to the world.

 

Having performed both Wiccan and Satanic rituals, I can say that there is certainly much more potential in those for positive self-transformation, rather than in the watered-down and sanctimonious pseudo-magic of a Xian ceremony. I've only done a handful of Pagan rites whereas I've assisted in the performance of hundreds of Xian ones, and the difference is, to me at least, remarkable.

[BlueGiant]

So is it possible in you opinion that the myth can be used by the person one it's been defined and controlled by others?

 

Short answer: yes.

 

Long answer: While the story may be told by others, every storyteller puts their own emphasis, their own spin, their own pharasing and own experiences over a story. Putting legends in books is a pretty recent phenomenon, which curtails this somewhat. While the framework may be defined by others ( as often our own mentality is by the actions of others ), there are parts that are always going to be innately yours: the interpretation, visualization, and meaning. That last is particularly important and while can be banged around by others, cannot be directly controlled by anyone else other than yourself.

 

Also if a myth gets taken into a new context, then in many ways, it requires one to make the myth one's own, does it not?

 

Also myths tend to embody archetypes and certain rules of the universe for us, in surprisingly compact imagery, and can allow us to communicate it much more efficiently. As an example, if I say that someone is "crying wolf", it means that someone is raising a false alarm, usually for the nth time, and has the implication that I believe that this behavior is going to bite them in the ass but hard one of these days. You could pick up on that by being familiar with the story, or effectively myth, about the boy who cried wolf. At the same time, if I mentioned We-Po-Yang's dog, you probably would have no idea what I am talking about, it's kind of obscure that way, and for you lacks power as a symbol as it is not integrated into your psyche.

 

Common myths, even Christianity in some cases, tend to generate (or are generated by, I'm not sure) a set of common symbols that everyone can make their own somehow. Also, just because a symbol is common doesn't mean that it means the same thing to all people. I mean, for us, most Christian symbolism is kind of irritating, while for others it is a source of inspiration. The meaning is the important part and what makes symbols and words have power. And another person cannot control your definition of a story you heard, though separate from defining the form of the story you heard.

 

And make no mistake, words have power. Symbols have power. Think of the last time you flipped someone the bird and meant it. *grin*

 

Does that clarify things?