The Lingering Effect Of Fundy Christianity...

[Guest lostintransition]

I'm an ex-evangelical Christian going on 5yrs now. I am 23 who has been in the same relationship for the past 4.5yrs to someone who is an ex-Catholic for the past 12yrs. We both are agnostic, however I am finding it difficult to let go of some of the gender roles that the church prescribes for men and women in heterosexual relationships and some of the "rules" as to how one "should be" in a relationship. The most obvious of these being the idea of "The One" and that one can find all they would ever need in their partner. I can accept this intellectually, but still find myself being mad or hurt that my partner doesn't fulfill all of my needs or desires. I hate to admit this, but just recently it dawned on me that I merely replaced religion with my relationship and am now struggling with letting go of those absolutes that were so ingrained in me from the time I was a kid.

 

I'm beginning to realize that so much of my identity was wrapped up in "the church" and being a member of that community. Unfortunately, I was burned by the church community in the past and now find it hard to trust people, to not be paranoid about what others think of me or what they may or may not say behind my back, to form close friendships with others, to not be a gossip myself, and with forming my own boundaries while respecting others. The church culture that I grew up in was one that was extremely gossipy and there was a sense that anyone could pry into your personal affairs because they cared about you. I've been able to get beyond the idea of an all powerful "God", but when I see how much effect that the church lifestyle has on my current life, I get frustrated, angry, and emotionally self-destructive. My question to post here, has anyone else dealt with the lingering effects that growing up in an abusive church setting on their current ex-Christian life? If so, what are they and what are you doing to help cope with them?

[OnceConvinced]

Well I can't answer the question you pose as my experience in the church was mainly very good. But seeing as no ones responded yet, I thought I'd make a comment on what you said in your first paragraph. (hope that's ok).

 

I too always believed in "the one" and thought my wife at the time was it and that God has brought us together. I was so convinced it was right because of all the so-called comfirmations from God I had at the time. (I've since learnt without a doubt now it was all coincedence and also the strong desire for her to be "the one". ) Because I thought she was "the one" and God as put us together. (it was meant to be lol), it really rocked my faith when we ended up having marital difficulties and then split after 11 years of marriage. I thought we were really meant to be! Couldn't believe God had let me down. Then I told myself it's still up to us as a couple to make it work - not all God. Now I think back and think if it wasn't for my belief that God was in our marriage, I probably would have put more effort into it. So really in a large way it was God's fault after all that we split. (or at least Religions fault). It makes you really complacent sometimes, because you think God has everything under control. It's a lesson I learned that's for sure. God most likely isn't in control of anything and if he really is there and has the capabilities of being in control, he doesn't give a stuff about me and my relationships!

 

Sorry if I got side tracked!

[R. S. Martin]

Lostintransition, your post makes me realize that I continue the gossip thing too much. And I also have a really hard time trusting people on the deepest level. It's funny. I trust people in the dysfunctional way we did things in our family, but for the really constructive trust as in trusting people not to talk behind my back--that's a huge one for me. I think that has more to do with dysfunctional relationships than with religion.

[Lycorth]

Welcome to the board, lostintransition!

 

I used to believe in the idea of "The One" and it definitely did a number on me. Hanging onto a wholly superstitious notion that out there I could find one perfect person who was meant to be mine led me through four failed attempts at a relationship, each worse than the first. The fourth in that dreaded line left me jaded, almost fully mired in my old depressive condition, and I'd have probably ended up a suicide if I didn't have a handful of people I believed were worth living for at the time.

 

And that depressive condition? I picked that up, too, during my years as a Xian, and no amount of praying to Jebus took it away. So much for that promise

 

I realize now that there is no such thing as "The One" and people in relationship make them work by wanting to be together and by being compatible. That doesn't mean your partner will match your tastes perfectly, but it will mean that you'll have a loving and supportive person at your side, if you are right for each other. And finding out if you're right for each other is a long process, usually taking one's entire lifetime.

 

There are no gods nor any other fating forces guiding our lives. We are in control, and the sooner we accept that, the sooner we can live by it - and grow.

[Luke Wolf]

I really don't have anything in my life that revolves around church doctorine anymore. It took awhile, but fully deprogramming myself was achieved.

[Guest lostintransition]

And that depressive condition? I picked that up, too, during my years as a Xian, and no amount of praying to Jebus took it away. So much for that promise

 

Thank you Varokhar for the warm welcome.

 

I think you bring up another interesting point, how "the church" addresses depression, anxiety, and other mental conditions that just can't be wished/prayed away. I was very depressed when I was a teen in the church, my father had addiction problems, and my mother suffered from depression as well and I was always led to believe that it was because of something that we were doing wrong that led to this, that we just didn't have the will to trust God enough to take it away from us (funny thing, looking back on it now, I thought we were taught that God is in control and not us). 5 of my close friends in the church either try to commit suicide, had an eating disorder, or both. Needless to say, they didn't really know how to handle them other than tell them that they are not walking the right path.

[Guest lostintransition]

I really don't have anything in my life that revolves around church doctorine anymore. It took awhile, but fully deprogramming myself was achieved.

 

 

I don't know how much of my life revolves around church doctrine anymore either. I have lived with a man "out of wedlock" for the past 3 years, don't really know how I feel about marriage, am quite liberal and am realizing that I may be bi-sexual. I think its more of those habits in one's personality that comes creeping out from time to time that is reminiscent of being a member of a church community.

[Guest lostintransition]

Lostintransition, your post makes me realize that I continue the gossip thing too much. And I also have a really hard time trusting people on the deepest level. It's funny. I trust people in the dysfunctional way we did things in our family, but for the really constructive trust as in trusting people not to talk behind my back--that's a huge one for me. I think that has more to do with dysfunctional relationships than with religion.

 

Mine definitely stemmed from being a member of a fundamental organized religion. I've been in contact with some friends who went to another church in my hometown and are currently trying to decide if they still see themselves as Christians or not and we both agree that there is a certain "clique-esque" quality to most fundy/evangelical/non-denominational churches that seems to be a breeding ground for a general distrust in people and gossip.

[michie_s]

...with forming my own boundaries while respecting others....I get frustrated, angry, and emotionally self-destructive.

 

My question to post here, has anyone else dealt with the lingering effects that growing up in an abusive church setting on their current ex-Christian life? If so, what are they and what are you doing to help cope with them?

 

Hi Lostintransition,

 

Welcome, I'm new to the board too so what I have to say may not be meaningful to where you are at.

 

I left christianity just a few weeks ago, although I really stopped believing over a year ago. I'm still dealing with the boundary issues and being ok with saying yes/no to people. I also feel the anger and resentment of wasted years believing something that is not true. How I deal with it is through the support of non-christian friends, reading materials on abusive churches and understanding the fallout and cutting myself lots of slack when I feel prone towards guilt and self depreciation. Of course things may change as I'm still fairly new to this, but this has helped so far.

 

Michie

[R. S. Martin]

I haven't read any books on abusive churches. Maybe I should because the stuff the two of you mention definitely resonates with me. I think maybe it's a part of me that I'm trying to just deny, shut out of my mind. I've been violated very deeply.

[R. S. Martin]

I realize it's not just the family. Everyone of the entire fundy community I belonged to considers it to be their business to know where I go to church, what I believe, and how I live. Whew! No wonder I find it practically impossible to return to the town where all this happened. It's like the black clouds just roll in and soffocate me whenever I travel in that direction. Others don't understand what my problem is. It's like I don't even have room to breathe when I'm there. It's like everyone can see right into my deepest heart of hearts and condemns me on sight. It's like what they can't see and don't know upfront they imagine. And the stuff they imagine is too dark and ugly even to think about.

 

I never really understood it, but it's beginning to make sense. I figured it's the judgmentalism and general hatred because I asked too many questions. But it's more than that. Boundaries don't exist. When I mention respect they look at me dumbly and ask, "What do you mean by respect?" Suspicion reigns. They think the only thing that keeps them in line is the church and if it weren't for god they would live wild outrageous and chaotic lives. They suspect--it's stronger than suspect, the KNOW (so they think)--that every single person who does not submit to a church lives exactly like they think they would live.

 

That's the monster that won't go away. It takes only the slightest association to bring on all the old black night-marish suffocating feelings. I know they think that kind of stuff about me and it's not nice knowing it. That's why I have to just shut it out of my mind. Yet acknowledging it like this helps me better see that I definitely am justified to cut them and all reminders of them out of my life and never look back.

[godlessgrrl]

The place where I see the biggest impact on myself is the place where religion and gender interact. Sexuality and gender roles are particularly tough. It isn't always connected directly with a church or a religion, because I didn't have much of a religious upbringing; but I firmly believe that American culture is soaked with a kind of puritanical legacy that finds its way into all kinds of socialization issues. So even though I was raised outside of a church, that puritanical legacy colored everything I was taught about women, gender, and sex.

 

I don't remember having religion become directly involved until I was in my teens, when I became a Born-Again. The religious influence over gender-related social issues was more obvious and overt from that point, and into my 20's, until I finally ditched Xianity. I can remember all kinds of unhealthy messages about sex, marriage, divorce, female submission, and so on, from those years. Religion at the time served to keep me for several years too long in a very bad, destructive marriage, among other things. The straw that broke the camel's back came in December of 2001, after a fundie SO dumped me because I wouldn't become the chaste, submissive Xian woman he expected me to be for him. In addition to being humiliating and embarrassing in its own right, that all had some unexpected impacts on my sexuality, which I may post about elsewhere.

 

I don't always remember or know exactly how and where and when religion may have given me the shaft, or what attitudes I still deal with that are left over from religion. Most of the time I just look around and realize that my life is better now than it's ever been, and I'm an atheist. Go figure.

[Guest lostintransition]

I realize it's not just the family. Everyone of the entire fundy community I belonged to considers it to be their business to know where I go to church, what I believe, and how I live. Whew! No wonder I find it practically impossible to return to the town where all this happened. It's like the black clouds just roll in and soffocate me whenever I travel in that direction. Others don't understand what my problem is. It's like I don't even have room to breathe when I'm there. It's like everyone can see right into my deepest heart of hearts and condemns me on sight. It's like what they can't see and don't know upfront they imagine. And the stuff they imagine is too dark and ugly even to think about.

 

I never really understood it, but it's beginning to make sense. I figured it's the judgmentalism and general hatred because I asked too many questions. But it's more than that. Boundaries don't exist. When I mention respect they look at me dumbly and ask, "What do you mean by respect?" Suspicion reigns. They think the only thing that keeps them in line is the church and if it weren't for god they would live wild outrageous and chaotic lives. They suspect--it's stronger than suspect, the KNOW (so they think)--that every single person who does not submit to a church lives exactly like they think they would live.

 

That's the monster that won't go away. It takes only the slightest association to bring on all the old black night-marish suffocating feelings. I know they think that kind of stuff about me and it's not nice knowing it. That's why I have to just shut it out of my mind. Yet acknowledging it like this helps me better see that I definitely am justified to cut them and all reminders of them out of my life and never look back.

 

It sounds as if you had a similar experience to the church "family" that I did. I thought that those feelings did go away as well, until some people from the former youth group (side note, has anyone else noticed how the only people in history to use the term "youth" in reference to a group of people is the church and Hitler) found me on there. Let me tell you, some deep emotional stuff came out then because I felt like it was my own space being invaded again and that I didn't want to let them in because of some of the things I would write on there would be "scandalous" to them. I think that is something that will always be there, but I have decided to take on this attitude that I don't care anymore. While being judged immediately is never a good feeling, taking on the attitude of "live and let live" has really helped me to be who I am, who I was trying to let out all those years of asking the wrong questions.

[michie_s]

They think the only thing that keeps them in line is the church and if it weren't for god they would live wild outrageous and chaotic lives. They suspect--it's stronger than suspect, the KNOW (so they think)--that every single person who does not submit to a church lives exactly like they think they would live.

 

I definitely agree with that. During my time of questioning while I still attended the fundie cult, I was speaking to a good friend of my (at the time) about why she obeyed all the rules that the church set out,, especially for women, she said that she did not trust herself to live without them. That if left to her own devices she would "run wild" so she needed god to keep her in line. I think that many people in fundementalism feel this way and it's fear of their own selves that keep them bound to the madness of christianity.

 

Having survived 14yrs in an abusive church, where you have no privacy, where all your life is an open book to everyone, under the guise of love and caring (i.e. I'm my brothers keeper), where even the smallest decision had to be approved by the pastor or an elder, where even your thoughts were not you own (since god knew the thoughts and intents of your heart...and could reveal it to someone else who would confront you about your intention to sin - real or not), I'm amazed sometimes that I still have the ability to be an "individual" and know that I have rights and privileges as such.

 

 

Michie

[The Sage Nabooru]

I really can't think of any way I have permitted my religious upbringing to influence in my life anymore. I'm not dissing anyone here. But it is something to think about: Now that you have thrown off the mantle, will you withdraw, or expand?

[R. S. Martin]

Having survived 14yrs in an abusive church, where you have no privacy, where all your life is an open book to everyone, under the guise of love and caring (i.e. I'm my brothers keeper), where even the smallest decision had to be approved by the pastor or an elder, where even your thoughts were not you own (since god knew the thoughts and intents of your heart...and could reveal it to someone else who would confront you about your intention to sin - real or not), I'm amazed sometimes that I still have the ability to be an "individual" and know that I have rights and privileges as such.

 

 

Michie

 

If that is abusive, then yes, my church was definitely abusive and so was my mother.

 

I witnessed something really beautiful in the grocery store today. A mother with a two-year-old was ahead of me in the check-out line. The little girl was playing with the stuff on the racks along the line. The mother saw this and did not interfere. The child was trying to put something back on the hook and it just wasn't working. She kept trying and trying. Finally the mother guided her hand and put it on. Then the little girl started playing with some stuff in boxes. The mother gently suggested that the stuff was piled neatly enough. That was all it took to get the child to stop.

 

People don't need to be controlled. Not by parents, not by teachers, not by preachers. It they feel loved and secure they won't do this stuff. If they do this stuff, there is good reason for it. And Michie, I have asked myself the same question many and many a time: With all that violation, how did I ever know that I had rights of my own?

 

The Sage Nabooru said:

 

I really can't think of any way I have permitted my religious upbringing to influence in my life anymore. I'm not dissing anyone here. But it is something to think about: Now that you have thrown off the mantle, will you withdraw, or expand?

 

Sage, perhaps the church you grew up in did not violate your person like this. Lucky you! is all I know to say.

[Guest lostintransition]

I really can't think of any way I have permitted my religious upbringing to influence in my life anymore. I'm not dissing anyone here. But it is something to think about: Now that you have thrown off the mantle, will you withdraw, or expand?

 

I don't think there is a question as to whether I will withdraw or expand. On the intellectual level, I know that I don't need a church to structure my morals and values, that I have these without them and that I don't need religion to tell me what those are. I have grown so much after leaving "the flock" years ago, but am still seeing some reactions to certain situations that have become so programmed that it becomes automatic. Maybe I'm not thinking it is the religious tenants that I think are still influencing me, but a bad experience in an abusive church community where you have no sense of privacy for yourself or others, and are constantly worried about how you are perceived by others. I think Michie S said it best that it gets to the point where you believe that your thoughts aren't even your own. Let's face it the modern day church has used psychological tactics to manipulate people and when you are brought up with it from birth, its something that is hard to not let it influence your life, with or without your permission.