How Do I...

[Guest Lost-in-Translation]

I was raised in a Xian home... dabbled in Wicca in high school, but mom got ubber pissed so I pretty had to "stay a xian" while I was living in her house. I went to church, youth group, church camps, Bible studies, etc. I played the game well if I do say so myself.

Now that I am out on my own (married) I am struggling with feelings of guilt...or maybe it's shame...or maybe it's... ARRRGH!!! I don't kow what the hell it is.

So I guess my question is... how do I "deprogram" myself? How do I come to a realization witthin myself that this is OK? How do I stop feeling guilty? Everytime I think about it, I want to vomit, because my mind is racing with "it's just a phase"... "you are going to hell"... "you are wrong"... and the one that pisses me off the most and hurts me the most is "you've hurt your family" (or as my mom as so bluntly put it, "it would kill the rest of your family to know this"

 

How do I find out what exactly I believe?

I mean, for so many years (21 to be exact) I was taught to think a certain way, and act a certain way, and any other way was just down right wrong.

[Luke Wolf]

It takes awhile to deprogramm yourself. Somethings you will take up quicker than others, especially if you had a particular influence on your leaving Christianity.

For me, Disturbed's first album "The Sickness" played a major role in my deconversion, and listening to secular music and swearing came very easy for me.

Other things came over time, but I have fully deprogrammed myself. Just keep reminding yourself there is no reason to hold that frame of thought anymore, and keep indulging.

Myself, sex was the issue that took my the longest to get over. Mainly due to years of sexual repression, not knowing my own body's sexualality that much, and really not even knowing that much about a female anotomy to be comfortable in a sexual situation.

 

As for finding out what you believe in, just keep listening and searching. Find your own place in life, and enjoy your new found freedom. It's YOUR LIFE, not theres. There is not one valid reason to live as something your not just to appease others. I pretty much told my family to fuck off if they couldn't get over me no longer being a Christian.

 

As for silencing the voices, you can always threaten to poke them with a q-tip.

[Lycorth]

Part of the reason Xianity is so loathsome is the depth to which its programming sinks into the minds of humans. Xians love to use this to claim that Xianity is The Truth™ and the difficulty you have getting it out of your head reflects the difficulty you're having in "ignoring Da Lard"

 

Part of deprogramming from this insidious mental meme is just staying the course. You know it's wrong, so simply refuse to give into it. That is best accomplished by arming yourself thoroughly with solid anti-Xian arguments. Online is one of the easiest places to find them, and I've put up a website; here is my page about Xianity which contains both my ex-timony on the religion and the leaving of it, and at the bottom are link banners leading to anti-xian websites. I've found them of great use during my deconversion - perhaps you may also.

 

That stuff is handy for arming yourself against Xianity. As for what you believe, that's another matter entirely. You mention being drawn to Wicca once; here is my page on it, as I've come to embrace Wicca (among other things) in my post-Xian quest.

 

Just don't expect to find out entirely and exactly what you believe right off the bat; I'm going on three years as refugee from Xianity and I'm still fleshing the fullness of my beliefs out

 

Hope that helps!

[Guest Lost-in-Translation]

My husband is an electic pagan. Wouldn't it just be easier if I was electic? I heard it said that it is hard being in a marriage where you have different religions. I'm sooooooo confused!!!!

[Lycorth]

My husband is an electic pagan. Wouldn't it just be easier if I was electic? I heard it said that it is hard being in a marriage where you have different religions. I'm sooooooo confused!!!!

 

Eh - having different religions can make things a mess, but only in proportion to how strongly religious the pair are. If the pair are more mellow, or if mellowness is a part of their religious beliefs, it's a different matter.

 

Would it be easier if you were eclectic? Well, only you can answer that. Perhaps studying his beliefs and any that appear attractive to you is a good starting point. It's hard to get a proper image of it unless you delve in a little. Only you can determine what's right for you, but don't be afraid to search - no god is going to punish you for flirting with dark arts

[qadeshet]

How do I find out what exactly I believe?

 

Believe only those things which are good, honest, and true. Replace Dogma with facts. A good place to start is science. Become familiar with human origins and it becomes clear that the Bible is just another collection of myths and fables.

 

The TalkOrigins Archive

[♦ nivek ♦]

L-i-T...

 

"Refuckinglax".....

 

There is no majik cure all for what is bugging you, save time and education. Both pass here at ExC pleasantly with tons of Reasonably Knowledgeable Individuals who have a little to a lot to add into your questioning.

 

Thing is, now you aren't under the structure of a fundy household, kick back and now try and figure for you what is the right path to explore.

Unlike the Xorg or any of the other mind and body sucking sectarian groups, you are now an individual who answers to yourself, not the black robed whores, three pieced suited con artistes who had some control of our life.

 

Fugg'um.... Yer done there, now it is time to breath, relax a touch and see what is out here in the wide open world you now can walk in.

 

Things that bug you, your nightmares, experiences, problems are your momentos of some serious shit now left behind. Wouldn't take those from you if I could, they help define where you are, and then help form where you might want to go.

 

ExC exists just for you. No shit kiddo. This place is in part the Waystation of the Net for you and your life. You found here, and you are welcome to read, ask, partake, befriend, and in turn offer what you may to what makes this joint work.

 

You'll find that things aren't that complicated when you've got folks who can assist and even give RKI advise. No longer alone, e.world or real. We tend to make friends well here. Many of we talk landline, e.mails, and even have met in meat.space.

 

There are an awful lot of options to run with. Look them over and feel welcome to join in.

 

k, mean_old_man, tinfoil hat tight, FL

[mwc]

My husband is an electic pagan. Wouldn't it just be easier if I was electic? I heard it said that it is hard being in a marriage where you have different religions. I'm sooooooo confused!!!!

Welcome to the site.

 

The one thing that I'm to understand about pagans is that they are far more tolerant than xians so this difference of religions may not become an issue. If possible, I'd take a wait and see approach while I worked to get myself together if I were you.

 

And speaking of you...as others have said...it can take awhile to get over the religion. I went back for a (short) time and so have others. I think it's kind of like those states of loss (I don't know them...anger, depression, bargaining, whatever...) so it can be really difficult and it takes each person their own time and their own way to work through it.

 

My mom broke down crying when I told her and was upset that I was going to hell and all that. She seems to have accepted it all but I think she's just in denial (thinking I'm just "mad at god" and I'll be back someday). That's her choice but I don't live for her. I don't wish to hurt her but I understand that it's the twisted belief system that hurt her so bad and not me. All I said is I don't believe something she does. Is that so wrong? If she believed in pink unicorns and she cried when I said I didn't should I bear the guilt? Obviously not. I feel bad that she feels bad but I'm angry that a belief system is so proudly endorsed in this world that would cause my mom to feel the way she did because I no longer bought into it. That's almost criminal to me. Now this same belief system appears to be causing you and yours the same grief. Why should you feel guilty for something you didn't do to anyone? You simply chose not to believe something. It's truly sad each time I hear it.

 

mwc

[perianwalsh]

type deprogramming in google

and checkout former fundies books.

you can read skeptic articles....that will give back your mind

[Kirangel]

My husband is an electic pagan. Wouldn't it just be easier if I was electic? I heard it said that it is hard being in a marriage where you have different religions. I'm sooooooo confused!!!!

 

I thought eclectic pagans were not exclusive, they pick what works for them right? So I don't see how it would make things more difficult if you are searching to figure out what you believe. What does your husband say about it? Maybe if you were Christian there would be a few differences in beliefs and subsequent problems because of it, but that's not the case. Keep searching and find out what works for you.

[kellyb]

To answer the original question, time is the main thing. Yeah, it's weird for a while. I thought I might be going crazy a few times. But it gets better. It took me about a year to shake it off.

 

Also, just realizing that those thoughts are the product of brainwashing helps. Tell that brainwashing to FUCK OFF.

[מה טבו]

You were raised in Christianity. You were taught to think as a Christian. From birth, the development of your cognitive, emotional, moral, and spiritual frameworks have all been bound with Christianity. You're not going to shake that off in a week.

 

My recommendation - learn as many viewpoints as you can. This doesn't just mean study world religions. Study concepts of G_d. The big angry man in the sky idea that you were raised with is not the only one out there. Listen to the arguments for naturalism, pantheism, and atheism. Learn the basics of natural science - a good teacher of cosmology can fill you with as much wonder and awe as any religious leader could. If you like paganism, hang around some pagans. You might be comforted by hanging around a Wiccan or two and not seeing any lightning bolts. Just look at G_d (or gods - or nature - or the Playboy Centerfold) from as many angles as you can.

 

You're not going to agree with all those viewpoints of course, but you will eventually stumble across some that make sense to you. Furthermore, in the course of things, you'll come to see a much bigger picture. Once the ideas of Christianity aren't the only ones in your head, they won't seem so all-encompassing.

 

If you can't shake the view of the angry G_d of the Old Testament, try talking to a Reform or Reconstructionist rabbi. You'll find that modern Judaism has a much different view of those books than Christianity. Looking at the deity of your childhood in a different way may help you to relax enough to open your mind to other ideas.

 

As to the family, I'd say your Mom is likely being a bit dramatic - but who says you have to announce your de-conversion? You don't have to hide, but don't feel forced to make a public statement either. Confront the issue if and when you feel like it. Just relax and be yourself.

[godlessgrrl]

I will reiterate something that has already been said here: deprogramming doesn't happen overnight. It's slow and often painful. But it does get better, you just have to stick with it.

 

I've found that a certain amount of bravado was very helpful for me as I deconverted. I had to be willing to dare to doubt, dare to challenge my beliefs, dare to do the things I was worried would send me to hell. I had to be willing to try new things, try on new ideas, experiment and see what happened. I also had to be willing to look at what religion was providing me and question whether or not it was worth it - and by "question" I don't mean the half-assed kind of questioning that I think most diehard Xians claim they've done about their faith, I mean really getting in there with probing questions, hard-assed, blasphemous ones, the ones you're afraid will lead you out of religion if you ask them. (And generally they will.)

 

A few favorite weapons in the fight:

 

Sex. Just do it. Do it a lot. Do things your religion told you were wrong, and see what happens. Don't violate anybody's will, but just dare to be unafraid to fuck around. If you like something, dare to let yourself like it.

 

Your mind. Think. Reason. Use it. If something sounds like bullshit, it probably is - figure out why. Take the morals and values your religious upbringing taught you, and think about whether or not they stand up to close scrutiny. See whether or not the values you've been taught actually correlate to reality. Demand solid evidence for every theological argument. Abandon those that provide none to back them up.

 

Education.. Read. Read a lot. Read about religions. Read about religions other than the one you were raised in. Read about what's wrong with the religion you were raised in. Take notes, if you feel so inclined. Learn about the history of Xianity - not just your former denomination, but Xianity as a whole - where did it start? What's the real story? Dig for it.

 

Therapy. This doesn't have to mean visiting a counselor, but if you're upset or traumatized enough, it can. Otherwise it can mean coming here to talk to people about getting out of bad religion. Or writing stuff in a journal. Or blogging. Or making art about it. And taking care of your body - feed it, water it, bathe it, give it good rest.

 

Your middle finger. Judicious application of the bird to particularly stubborn people or ideas, whether given just mentally or in actual RealTime, can work wonders for the spirit.

 

Those things have helped for me, anyway.

 

Welcome to the boards.

[NearlyInsane]

I was raised in a Xian home... dabbled in Wicca in high school, but mom got ubber pissed so I pretty had to "stay a xian" while I was living in her house. I went to church, youth group, church camps, Bible studies, etc. I played the game well if I do say so myself.

Now that I am out on my own (married) I am struggling with feelings of guilt...or maybe it's shame...or maybe it's... ARRRGH!!! I don't kow what the hell it is.

So I guess my question is... how do I "deprogram" myself? How do I come to a realization witthin myself that this is OK? How do I stop feeling guilty? Everytime I think about it, I want to vomit, because my mind is racing with "it's just a phase"... "you are going to hell"... "you are wrong"... and the one that pisses me off the most and hurts me the most is "you've hurt your family" (or as my mom as so bluntly put it, "it would kill the rest of your family to know this"

 

How do I find out what exactly I believe?

I mean, for so many years (21 to be exact) I was taught to think a certain way, and act a certain way, and any other way was just down right wrong.

I would suggest, first of all, lots of reading & study about christianity - specifically the bible itself. My first approach to leaving christianity was just to get as far away from it as possible. This helped calm the demons, but didn't really help me get hold of what I really believed. It wasn't till many years later that I found myself reading secular, ex-christian, and atheist commentary about christianity & the bible, & arguing with xians on the internet. This ended up being the balm I needed. It bolstered my reasons for leaving the faith, and gave me the confidence to not only live freely as a non-xian, but to stand up for myself and my beliefs as well. It forced me to look at the details of my former faith, something I'd avoided previously, when I was simply running away from it. Examining the religion made a huge difference. At that point my rebellion from christianity changed from "I don't like this religion" to "I simply can't accept this as the truth, because..." and I could go into the whys for literally days on end.

[Guest BibleThumper]

My best advice is... Get yourself into a frame of mind where you can break away from christian beliefs without feeling bad about your actions. Make your own moral system That doesn't revolve around christianity, but you can feel good about holding to. I threw away the commandments a long time ago and made up my own:

 

BEING NICE TO OTHERS = GOOD

BEING MEAN TO OTHERS = BAD

 

nice and simple to follow, and good and constructive for everyone.

 

Just remember that you are alone in your mind, and that the force that has control over your actions is you, alone, no god. Accept the fact that nobody knows what happens after you die, and christianity just abuses the weakness of humanity's universal fear of the unknown to gain control.