Llwellyn Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 I've smoked marijuana exactly twice in my life. The year after law school, I was clerking for a judge in a big southern city and I had a fling with this girl. She was trouble and I knew it -- that is why I dated her. She smoked weed and she encouraged me to do it. So, in the space of two months, I smoked two joints. The first time, I did not feel anything. The second time, I felt kind of lethargic and overly analytical -- not a good feeling. I just wanted to sleep and wake up without that feeling. So, now on the applications to become a JAG officer (legal officer) in the armed forces, they ask me if I have ever used any illegal drugs, and they ask me to explain. I would really like to become a JAG officer, and thus I am troubled by this question. What should I do? Should I tell the truth and say that I tried it twice without enjoying it? Should I lie? Are any of you officers in the US military? Have any of you ever reviewed applications of officer candidates? I would really like to tell the truth, but if they are going to just throw away the application if they see this, then I don't know what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 I think by 'used' they mean 'as a way of getting through the day without killing yourself or anyone else' as opposed to 'I've spliffed twice in my adult life'... JAGs are lawyers... the truth is less what happened and more what can be proved... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 It's not really a matter of whether you have used it as whether you have been charged with and convicted of offenses related to using it. Should the latter be the case, you would have to tell them as a background check would reveal these convictions. If you've not been convicted and there is no chance it will show up in your bloodstream/urine, I shouldn't tell them anything at all. Casey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 STFU L... Period. Ainta nothing gained by this long ago slight venture into smoking ditch weed. kFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 I agree with Kev, it's none of their business and it's just going to cause you to have to go through the hassle of getting a waiver. Being overly honest in this situation is just being naive to how the world works. I don't say that as an insult. It takes time and experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dan Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 I would just say you never have. You don't currently smoke, and it's not like there's any way they're going to find out you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdall Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Can the professional Security person make a comment? I am part of the process of obtaining a security clearance and have seen this question many many times on hundreds of JPAS questionaires. In your case, I don't think that a two time experiment is really any of their business, however if there is any way at all that it will be uncovered during your security investigation, it is best to "fess up and explain that it was only experimentation. I have a young female cop right now that volunteerily admitted to weed use on 5 seperate occassions and she is sitting here not able to do more than "fatique" details while AFCAF (the agency that approves the clearances) dithers around asking for this statement and that statement from this person and that person. The young lady will eventually get her clearance, but this experimentation will follow her for her entire Law Enforcement career (military or civilian). If you are sure that no one of consequence (that is someone that the investigators will interview during the course of their investigation into your suitability to be an Officer and hold a clearance) will be interviewed, and that the few people that even realized that you were "toking" are not going to rat you out...then answer the question in the negative. In the case of a minor experimentation that was never repeated, the hassel involved in confessing is just too much to do over nothing! - Heimdall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted July 24, 2007 Author Share Posted July 24, 2007 As a Christian, I spent so much time lying -- I was "imputed with the righteousness of Christ" and thus my evil could be lied about as perfection because of my faith. Now that I am not a Christian, I just want to come clean -- and be honest about everything. My ex-girlfriend is cool, and we chat occasionally. I don't know, though, what she would say if some FBI agent asked her if she knew of any illegal activities by me. She would probably say no, but I wouldn't want her to lie. Besides that, I think I have told some of my friends that I've smoked weed. If I got caught in a lie, wouldn't it be much worse for me than to tell the truth about smoking 2 joints? I didn't enjoy the experience, and I have no intention of doing it ever again. But when I did it, it was time to stop being a little goody-two-shoes douchebag, so I don't regret doing it. Maybe I am still a goody-two-shoes douchebag. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted July 24, 2007 Author Share Posted July 24, 2007 Heimdall -- Do you mean that you actually have to get a waiver if you answer that question in the affirmative? I am applying first to the Air Force, then to the Navy, and then to the Army. Llwellyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Yeah, if anyone they could possibly interview that would say you smoked....I would just say admit to it. Getting cuaght lying is worse than if you just admitted it. But if you were alone or there is zero chance that it could be uncovered, i wouldnt say anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush country Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Here is my experience, although it is somewhat dated. After a couple of years of college (~1978) I decided I wanted to be a warrant officer pilot in the US Army. Aced all the tests, applied, and was accepted. On my application I admitted that I had smoked weed a couple of times. I told them I didn't like it and never intended to do it again. It was not an issue from what I could tell although one friend that was in service told me that I'd never see the inside of a cockpit. However, the Army was desperate for people then, so there were a few things they were willing to overlook. For various reasons I did not take the position and returned to school. Move forward to 1980. Nearing the completion of my degree I was still interested in pilot training and thought that the US Navy was the way to go. Since I had admitted smoking pot previously I was pretty much obligated to state it again, which I did. When the Navy was doing the background check for this application they did send people to talk to my previous employers and my references. As far as I know they did not talk to any of my friends or casual acquaintances. I was accepted to AOCS. Back then the atmosphere was that the armed services really needed people so they would overlook some things. I don't know how it is now. Over all I would say - don't mention it. At the time I wish I had not and I know they never would have found out. Unless you have listed the girlfriend as a reference it is very unlikely they will talk to her. If you admit it, it will follow you around forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdall Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 I wouldn’t say you have to get a waiver…it is called a “determination” and has to be supported by documentation and statements that this criminal act has not recurred since then. In your case, they will probably not get their knickers in a twist. It was only a two time experiment and no other criminal actions have occurred. In the case of the young cop I mentioned, during their investigation they uncovered a MIP (minor in possession) coupled with a DWI that resulted in arrest, 30 days jail time (suspended), 2 years probation and a $200 fine. This definitely got their knickers in all kinds of twists! Still, if her supervisor, herself and her military commander submit statements to the understanding that these actions have not recurred since the DWI, she will probably be granted clearance and have a near-normal career, although this “record” will follow her for her entire service time. I must agree with Vixentrox, if there is anyone at all that they will interview that can reveal your little transgression…then be sure to admit it, I doubt that it will affect you at all. – Heimdall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted July 25, 2007 Author Share Posted July 25, 2007 I mentioned the drug use to my Navy Officer Recruitor a couple of months ago. He said to include it in the application and that it wouldn't keep me from getting a job, but that it would be better if this weren't part of my history. He was a lieutenant, and I don't know if he'll still be working at that office when I submit my application. Perhaps he made a note in my file after the conversation? I don't know if he would double check my application (when I finish it) to see if I concluded this info. He will not be part of the hiring committee reviewing my qualifications. So, I don't know if I can put the cat back in the bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdall Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Normally (at least for Air Force recruiters) if you made mention of it, it would have been noted and entered into the record. I imagine that it is now impossible to put the genie back in the bottle so 'fess up...(but down play it as nothing more than a one-time experimentation) it has been my experience that minor experimentation is not detrimental to your chances of being granted admission or a clearance. - Heimdall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Ll... If asked a direct question in person, prudent not to fib/lie/cover ass. Shading the truth to minimize damage or flak is often prudent, but flat out lying is dumb. Shutting the fuck up and admitting nothing from the outset is usually the best course. You had not mentioned that AF 'cruiter knew of your puffin' up in OP, that would have made difference in my answer.. They have to prove, find your guilt in something concrete. That pesky 5th Amendment still works well.. Minor instances of alleged dope use are oft not worth time of investigators *unless* admitted to by the investigatee. You opened the bag of cats, it isn't fixable by denial now. If asked again, or reinterviewed by proxy or in person, do what you know best to satisfy their curiosity about your person and life. Two doobies in a busy life might not DQ you for your attempts at joining the Services in a Security position.. You've learned early the Ultimate Answer.. "Never fuckin' Volunteer shit about Nuttin' ". kFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 There was a lot to be said for the old adage that I think has been current since the Napoleonic Wars - Keep your mouth shut and your eyes and bowels open... Unfortunately, this is a cat evacuating the bag situation... Lot of good advice here... even if you don't join the services, it will serve well in any and all walks of life... another good bit of advice from my late dad, who had his share of military hijinks - It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted July 26, 2007 Author Share Posted July 26, 2007 This is a question I will try to have answered by an attorney officer in the JAG Corps., but perhaps one of you has a sense of how this question is answered... Apart from whether or not i will be hired by the military, I was wondering if the drug use could affect my career advancement and promotion. Might this affect the duties and responsibilities I am given? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdall Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 I doubt if it will affect you at all...the only ones that will know is (in the Air Force case) AFCAF and they do not advertise what they know unless it is going to affect security. In the case of a two time experimentation, they most likely will not even say anything to anyone outside of their little organization. Even your Security Manager will be unaware of it, which means your Commander will likewise be unaware of it, since the Security Manager is the one that keeps him advised. I don't think you have anything to worry about. - Heimdall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connie Goodnow Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Llew, It's not as much of a problem as it would be, say if you were smoking it while in, and popped a positive on the Golden Flow.... THAT would screw you up BIG TIME. They piss test EVERYONE randomly too, active duty AND reservists. And they watch while your producing your sample, God knows we can't have anyone bringing in that fake d*ck, especially them pesky females.... As long as you don't toke a stogie while you're in the military, I should think you would be all right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twincats Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 I had experience in the time frame that bush country did (1979.) I was being interviewed for my clearance in the USAF and they scared me into admitting my experimentation. I was supposed to be a linguist. After having completed the Russian Basic course, I was told before I was able to start tech school in Texas that my clearance had been denied and I had to take an OJT job instead of the linguist position. The job I got was Education Specialist which was technically connected to Personnel, so I had access to those databases and the funny thing is, I was always listed as being PRP (personnel reliability program; for people with clearances, don’t know if that’s still what they call it) in the records. When I applied to cross train into communications two years later, I was approved right away for the job I wanted which required Top Secret SBI access; a job I held for the next 4 years. So I guess I have to say that it did affect me and it didn’t… As far as advancement, no discernable affect. I made all my rank promotions (enlisted) within the expected time frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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