Removing An Idea From My Head.

[Llwellyn]

The Christian idea that bothers me most and that I would be happiest to remove from my mind is the idea of "God's curse." The Bible teaches that God curses as a means of enforcing his violated law. This was perhaps the first abstract idea that I learned as a pre-schooler. I believed it until I was age 25 (two years ago). Now, I try to forget it and ignore it, but the idea sticks in my brain like gum on the sole of a shoe. Last night, the thought was giving me a headache and made me sleep for 12 hours.

 

1 Corinthians 16:22 (New International Version)

If anyone does not love the Lord—a curse be on him. Come, O Lord!

 

John 3:36 (New International Version)

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

 

Deuteronomy 28:15, 20-24, 63

If you do not obey the LORD your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come upon you and overtake you: The LORD will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him. Just as it pleased the LORD to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you.

How do I remove the idea? I kind of want to "act out" in order to violate the rules and learn from experience that "Yahweh's curse" is a fiction.

[GraphicsGuy]

Hi Llwellyn,

 

What is it you are wanting to do? How are you wanting to "act out"? I would say go ahead and do it, but just keep in mind that all actions have consequences...whether you believe in God or not.

 

Jump out of a plane at 5,000 ft without a parachute and you'll be a splatter on the ground...belief in God or not.

 

Have sex with a $10 hooker without a condom...you're likely to catch something.

 

Life happens no matter what. A lot of people think that God "judges" them when bad things happen, but it's simply a figment of their own guilty conscience, not proof that God cursed them.

 

I find it extremely sad that it was this doctrine that was so forcibly etched into your psychi.

 

I don't know. Like I said, tell us what you want to do and we'll discuss the possibilities, okay?

[NearlyInsane]

Wow... that's one I didn't hear about in all my years as a xian. Guess I lucked out! I had enough mind-phuk beliefs as it was! The thing that follows me around to this day is the whole burning in hell deal. But it's gotten considerably better over the years. Probably my best defense has been reading tons of stuff about why NOT to believe in christianity or the bible. With time, confidence in my beliefs, and many years of NOT hearing the hellfire/brimstone sermons, THE FEAR has diminished dramatically. I rarely think about it anymore, & it's even more rare for me to experience anxiety from the thought. It's weird, but this dilemma has presented itself to me many times over the years in a recurring dream theme: I'm about to die (crash in an airplane or something) & I think about death & god & hell, etc. For the last 2 or 3 years my reaction in the dream has always been, "Oh well; guess I'll find out" & oddly enough I become calm as I await my fate. Then I wake up. I think the fact that I can be calm about it in my dreams is a really good demonstration of how far I've come psychologically, for this is the first abstract idea I ever learned. I can rememer agonizing over it as a very young child - I believed that if certain thoughts entered my brain, I would be damned, & of course because of that couldn't KEEP those thoughts from not only going through my head, but getting stuck there. The big ones were the phrase "god damnit" & anything about satan.

 

Good luck in your quest to overcome those thoughts. I'm sure it'll get better with time, if nothing else helps.

[NearlyInsane]

BTW, thanks so much for your post! Just reading about someone else having trouble with those kind of ridiculous, yet oh-so-real fears makes me feel less alone in this fundy-ridden place where I live.

[Piprus]

How do you forget Yahweh's Curse?

 

Simple, really...first, accept that "Yahweh" was nothing more than a bronze age tribal war-demon that got morphed into the Persian myth of an "Ahuru-Mazdah", "wise Lord". The keyword is, myth.

 

It's a myth, period. There is no such a thing, so therefore there is no curse. Your life is your own. Handle it wisely.

[Lycorth]

How do you forget Yahweh's Curse?

 

Simple, really...first, accept that "Yahweh" was nothing more than a bronze age tribal war-demon that got morphed into the Persian myth of an "Ahuru-Mazdah", "wise Lord". The keyword is, myth.

 

It's a myth, period. There is no such a thing, so therefore there is no curse. Your life is your own. Handle it wisely.

 

And that says it all

 

Just bone up on the facts that prove this god is no more real than Santa Claus and hence any curses said to be from this god are also as real, ie, wholly non-existent.

 

The truth will set you free

[LithaB]

I'm sorry you have such an unpleasant thought stuck in your head. Whenever I find thoughts like that popping into my head, I remind myself that bad things happen even to the very kindest most devout people. If there is a god (which I no longer believe) then that god seems to "curse" people on a whim, whether they worship him or not.

 

If you can't even protect yourself from Yaweh's curse by being a perfect Christian, why bother groveling before him? Stand up and spit in his eye for being such a tyrant.

[NearlyInsane]

If there is a god (which I no longer believe) then that god seems to "curse" people on a whim, whether they worship him or not.

 

If you can't even protect yourself from Yaweh's curse by being a perfect Christian, why bother groveling before him? Stand up and spit in his eye for being such a tyrant.

That's exactly how I felt about my religion as a teenager, & what set off my rebellion & suicidal thinking. It's much less stressful to believe this tyrant god doesn't really exist.

 

BTW, it's not as simple as some of you seem to think, to just accept that this god is not real. It's one thing to believe that intellectually, but entirely another to purge intrusive thoughts that have been ingrained since one's earliest recollection. You can bolster your defenses by reading more and more reasons not to believe, but it doesn't make the thoughts just go away. They die down over time, if your situation allows it. If you stay in a situation where the hogwash is constantly reinforced, or if you're under lots of stress for any reason, it makes it harder to combat.

[Lycorth]

BTW, it's not as simple as some of you seem to think, to just accept that this god is not real. It's one thing to believe that intellectually, but entirely another to purge intrusive thoughts that have been ingrained since one's earliest recollection. You can bolster your defenses by reading more and more reasons not to believe, but it doesn't make the thoughts just go away. They die down over time, if your situation allows it. If you stay in a situation where the hogwash is constantly reinforced, or if you're under lots of stress for any reason, it makes it harder to combat.

 

Of course, that's why we advocate self-education. There is no way to begin freeing oneself of Xian terrorism without constantly deferring to the facts about the religion and also keeping a firm hold on the element of doubt, never permitting oneself to consider that the harmful lies are true.

 

A lot of us did just leave Xianity without any problems. Many, however, weren't so lucky. But you've got to train yourself to rely only on the facts, or else there is no escape. Faith in Xianity doesn't just disappear by itself, generally.

[NearlyInsane]

A lot of us did just leave Xianity without any problems. Many, however, weren't so lucky.

No kidding! The ease of leaving it behind depends on how deeply one was entrenched. Being initiated since birth (or at least before being able to think critically) into a fundy religion is the worst, because you don't have any experience w/ thinking about a world not controlled by a sadistic, bipolar god.

[Lycorth]

Being initiated since birth (or at least before being able to think critically) into a fundy religion is the worst, because you don't have any experience w/ thinking about a world not controlled by a sadistic, bipolar god.

 

I like that. Mind if I steal it?

[NearlyInsane]

Go for it.

[LithaB]

If there is a god (which I no longer believe) then that god seems to "curse" people on a whim, whether they worship him or not.

 

If you can't even protect yourself from Yaweh's curse by being a perfect Christian, why bother groveling before him? Stand up and spit in his eye for being such a tyrant.

That's exactly how I felt about my religion as a teenager, & what set off my rebellion & suicidal thinking. It's much less stressful to believe this tyrant god doesn't really exist.

 

Please accept my apologies for being so thoughtless as to offer a suggestion that would lead to suicide. I don't know what came over me.

[ShackledNoMore]

BTW, it's not as simple as some of you seem to think, to just accept that this god is not real. It's one thing to believe that intellectually, but entirely another to purge intrusive thoughts that have been ingrained since one's earliest recollection. You can bolster your defenses by reading more and more reasons not to believe, but it doesn't make the thoughts just go away. They die down over time, if your situation allows it. If you stay in a situation where the hogwash is constantly reinforced, or if you're under lots of stress for any reason, it makes it harder to combat.

 

Of course, that's why we advocate self-education. There is no way to begin freeing oneself of Xian terrorism without constantly deferring to the facts about the religion and also keeping a firm hold on the element of doubt, never permitting oneself to consider that the harmful lies are true.

 

A lot of us did just leave Xianity without any problems. Many, however, weren't so lucky. But you've got to train yourself to rely only on the facts, or else there is no escape. Faith in Xianity doesn't just disappear by itself, generally.

...and, over time, with critical thinking, and education, looking at the facts, it has been my experience that it not just dies down, but dies out, exposure to xians telling you otherwise and stress notwithstanding. Once the old propaganda seems no more compelling than that of a competing cult you never took seriously, that's when you've dealt the old hogwash its final blow. I totally concur that the best way to handle lingering ideas like this is to recognize them for what they are: myths. They may be ingrained, but knowing that they are fallacies intellectually is the first step out. And sites like this can be a great resource.

[NearlyInsane]

If there is a god (which I no longer believe) then that god seems to "curse" people on a whim, whether they worship him or not.

 

If you can't even protect yourself from Yaweh's curse by being a perfect Christian, why bother groveling before him? Stand up and spit in his eye for being such a tyrant.

That's exactly how I felt about my religion as a teenager, & what set off my rebellion & suicidal thinking. It's much less stressful to believe this tyrant god doesn't really exist.

 

Please accept my apologies for being so thoughtless as to offer a suggestion that would lead to suicide. I don't know what came over me.

I wasn't saying your suggestion would lead to suicide - just commenting on my own experience w/ religion. I believed in xianity fully, but hated it at the same time. I came to believe that the god I worshipped was truly a monster, but that thought didn't make me believe in him any less. It only increased my anxiety and depression. I stopped going to church the instant I was out of my parents' house, but that didn't keep me from believing in all that nonsense either.

 

Had I been introduced to people who didn't believe in god at the time, it would have made a world of difference. Unfortunately I didn't see that as an option at the time. It simply never occurred to me that it could all be a lie. That idea came during college, & oddly enough it wasn't a comforting thought AT ALL, when it first hit me over the head like a telephone pole.

[Llwellyn]

Stand up and spit in his eye for being such a tyrant.

That's exactly how I felt about my religion as a teenager, & what set off my rebellion & suicidal thinking. It's much less stressful to believe this tyrant god doesn't really exist.

 

Please accept my apologies for being so thoughtless as to offer a suggestion that would lead to suicide. I don't know what came over me.

I wasn't saying your suggestion would lead to suicide - just commenting on my own experience w/ religion.

In my experience, to have a healthy mental outlook, you must do both: (1) Deny the reality of Yahweh's vengeance, (2) and have a "contingency plan" where you know what decision you would make if it were true. In order to come to a place where the ideas have no control over you, you must accept the possibility that it is true and know why you would still make the same decision in that circumstance.

 

This can be an overwhelming thought -- "What shall we do if it's true?" But we must make our moral stands. If Yahweh exists, he isn't the only person who couples power with retaliation. How do we react to those powerful people we know exist? We should agree to react the same way to Yahweh if we discover he too exists. Inasmuch as there are corrupt people out there who have the power to destroy, then Yahweh does exist or may as well exist!

 

If Yahweh does indeed have omnipotent power to curse other persons, the duty of men would remain the same-to hold by Goodness, and defy Power to its worst-like Prometheus on his rock, defying Jove.

 

[Llwellyn]

Of course, it is really easy for me to say this, but harder for me to stop being so frightened by the idea of "infinite retribution." It makes timid. If you were to ask me what experiences I would like to have in order to "purge" the idea of God's curses from my mind, I would say that I would wish to have some sexual experiences with the opposite sex -- women. I grew up with the kind of subconscious idea that women's bodies are mine-fields and that I would turn myself into a "pervert" if I experimented at all or if I followed my heart's desires. I have been casually dating a girl for a while and watched a movie on the couch with her on Saturday night. What I would really wish to do is to kiss her and feel her breasts.

 

Perhaps another way of getting an "exorcism" of the idea of God's curse is to literally call it down upon me and see what happens!?! "Yahweh, give me your best shot!" Maybe I should take the Blasphemy Challenge?

[GraphicsGuy]

Of course, it is really easy for me to say this, but harder for me to stop being so frightened by the idea of "infinite retribution." It makes timid. If you were to ask me what experiences I would like to have in order to "purge" the idea of God's curses from my mind, I would say that I would wish to have some sexual experiences with the opposite sex -- women.

 

Llwellyn (btw, did you get your name from Valkyrie Profile?), I honestly truly hear what you are saying. Do you mind if I ask how old you are? You sound like I did when I was in my teens. I believed in Jesus so much that I was totally AFRAID of sex, especially when the opportunity for physical pleasure arose on occasion.

 

I really don't want to tell you to just go ahead and get all the tail you can grab. It just doesn't seem ethical for me to do that. However, I do want to tell you not to be AFRAID of it if it does happen. Honestly, repressing the desire for it is worse than doing it...at least in my life experience it has been. Depending on your age, I would advise you to wait. I'm certain that sex between consenting adults is much better than sex between two awkward teenagers.

 

I grew up with the kind of subconscious idea that women's bodies are mine-fields and that I would turn myself into a "pervert" if I experimented at all or if I followed my heart's desires. I have been casually dating a girl for a while and watched a movie on the couch with her on Saturday night. What I would really wish to do is to kiss her and feel her breasts.

 

Women's bodies certainly aren't minefields...more like vast meadows of carnal bliss. The only thing that will turn you into a pervert is NEVER following up the desires with reality. If you secretly look at porn on a regular basis and mentally undress every woman you see you simply repress and repress and repress the natural desires and start developing some very unhealthy ways of acting out. I do believe that this is how some rapists and serial killers develop into what they are.

 

Perhaps another way of getting an "exorcism" of the idea of God's curse is to literally call it down upon me and see what happens!?! "Yahweh, give me your best shot!" Maybe I should take the Blasphemy Challenge?

 

Nothing bad will happen to you, Llwellyn. Like I said, you may have consequences for actions taken, but it doesn't mean God is punishing you, just that life happens. If you decide to have sex, practice safe sex to avoid STDs and take precautions against pregnancy. Be smart about it. Don't just jump in bed when the hormones are raging...actually plan it.

 

And first and foremost...take the woman's feelings into account. Know first if she is okay with a casual relationship or if she has her mind set on something more permanent. Find out what she wants. Don't just use and abuse her for your personal pleasure.

[Mythra]

It's a myth, period. There is no such a thing, so therefore there is no curse. Your life is your own. Handle it wisely.

 

Nice, Piprus. And on the money.

 

Once you really come to understand that Jesus and Yahweh are man-made legendary characters in a man-made religion, fear is no more. Religion has lost its power. Just as the promises of "whatever you ask in my name" are clearly bullshit, so are the curses and the fear of judgment.

 

Kind of sadly ironic that mankind spends such an incredible amount of energy playing mind games with pretend beings. But that's the truth.

 

Thank god I escaped that nonsense.

[Mankey]

Stand up and spit in his eye for being such a tyrant.

That's exactly how I felt about my religion as a teenager, & what set off my rebellion & suicidal thinking. It's much less stressful to believe this tyrant god doesn't really exist.

 

Please accept my apologies for being so thoughtless as to offer a suggestion that would lead to suicide. I don't know what came over me.

I wasn't saying your suggestion would lead to suicide - just commenting on my own experience w/ religion.

In my experience, to have a healthy mental outlook, you must do both: (1) Deny the reality of Yahweh's vengeance, (2) and have a "contingency plan" where you know what decision you would make if it were true. In order to come to a place where the ideas have no control over you, you must accept the possibility that it is true and know why you would still make the same decision in that circumstance.

Even if yahweh exists that don't prove hes THE creator. Hell yea! Yaweh can take a long walk on a short pier. Fuck him. Big baby yahweh. Wah! They won't do what I want and they won't kiss my ass 24/7! I am incredibly ignorant of my own creations design but I will hold that against them when they want to think...wah! hehe. Jesus can stick it too.

 

I made my piece with God before I became atheist. I was a deist first. Yaweh is a big baby. Fuck him.

 

 

[Luke Wolf]

It'll take time to get rid of.

 

Myself, rather than being cursed for telling Yahweh and Jesus to suck each other's dicks and squirt thier load in each other's eyes, and then fuck each other's shit filled asses without any lube, I am a curse to others.

 

Making shock statements such as that without thinking twice, and with no remorse, and countless other lines I have said that will shock many Christians and non-believers alike to the core, is just one example of how I am a curse to others.

[Guest brookacton]

That's a tough one. Guess you just have to be patient with yourself. Perhaps read some writings that explain why such curses/threats of fire and brimstone are so common in so many religions. It's hard because sometimes it's a gray area with the idea that all actions have consequences/ ideas of karma and such. You have to find a balance where you take responsibility for your actions and their consequences, without seeing it as damnation from God. It's just a learning experience.

 

I would recommend reading "The Future of an Illusion" by Freud. It's not the best book ever (Freud was a bit insane and would speak as an expert in fields he had no authority in), and I certainly don't agree with all his ideas, but he has some interesting psychological explanations for why in religions there are often these "Do this or you will burn!" kinds of threats.

Basically it comes down to power and the maintenances of a cohesive, homogeneous civilization.