Evolution_beyond Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 I've read the whole of the Bible twice before. But the first time I did that I was a kind of semi-pagan, semi-christian and the second time I was a pantheist, gnostic, hindu, new age something or other. Now I am fully atheist. I do not believe that there is a God who could possibly be working behind the scenes and inspiring people. The wild theories and beliefs that influenced the people who wrote the Bible are not something that I need to see any validity to at all anymore. But I keep an open mind and am aware of the wonders and uses of metaphor, so we'll see how it goes. I have my own eccentric order that I'm reading it in. I started with Exodus and I've just finished reading that book (it only took me four days) Impressions of Exodus? What surprises me is how tribal early Israelite belief was. In some ways it seems like a fairly standard portrayal of the stories, customs and religious rites of any ancient people. It could have been written by aborigines or something. Smearing blood on the priests to ordain them - seems pretty primitive to me. Pillars of smoke and fire, extreme detailed descriptions of building of the ark and the tabernacle - it's fairly pagan in a weird monotheist way. The story of the plagues was entertaining as always, but I find it hard to take it any more seriously than reading Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings now. Anyway, I'll keep you all posted. For the next three days I will be reading Judges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankey Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 evolution_beyond:The wild theories and beliefs that influenced the people who wrote the Bible are not something that I need to see any validity to at all I may have a problem with the bible being considered a collection of books writen by folks who were inspired by a God.....but I guess I have to agree with some heathens that we can keep the good stuff....and recognize its value. The bibles writers are sometimes soft and thoughtful....not all the time though. When reading philosophers do we have to agree with everything they say? No. I hold that no mankey is the epitome of love and reason and that we all are more than just our flaws.....we do what we can. Using reason and feelings together is the best way to cherry pick. Why not openly admit to cherry picking in this fashion? I can't say I see anything wrong with that. I am reading the N.T. over again. I am a little weak there because I am all too familiar with the O.T. That is because someone pointed out scripture from there that I had either put out of my mind or not read. The O.T. damaged my faith beyond repair. I am sometimes afraid to share my readings of the bibles 'cause I sometimes have a reading comprehension problems. It comes and goes. I am grateful that you have made this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkyone Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Maybe someday I'll read some of it again. In fact, my boys would like me to read it to them, but I usually don't take the time. It could be a good opportunity for me to point out things that don't make sense or give them a chance to start thinking critically instead of believing blindly. The main reason I don't read the Bible is because I read it at least a dozen times straight through when I was growing up because we read it as a family, sometimes taking parts to read in the stories, and for a few years the pastor wanted us to read 10 chapters a day, which would get us through it either 3 or 4 times a year. I remember times that I would be speedreading at night to get through the chapters because I didn't want to get behind. I also was supposed to read at least some scripture before breakfast because of a verse in Job where it says someone esteemed God's word more than his necessary food. One time I was going hunting with my dad and we had stopped at the bakery to get apple fritters (which I still love to eat, but try to avoid) and since we were up super early I didn't take time to read. I quoted some verses to myself really quick so I could eat without the guilt. We also learned chapter upon chapter of scripture at the church school (one year I learned the whole book of Proverbs a chapter at a time, but I can't quote much of it today) and heard the pastor preach verse by verse through entire books over several years. So, I guess that's why I'd rather read a novel or some interesting nonfiction when I have time to read. I've also read copiously of fiction most of my life, frequenting the library as well, so it's not like I only spent time reading the scriptures, just in case someone would feel sorry for me about it. Sparkyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution_beyond Posted August 13, 2007 Author Share Posted August 13, 2007 I've found it! I've found the bit about iron chariots! Judges 1:19 - And the Lord was with Judah, and he took possession of the hill country, but he could not drive out the inhabitants of the plain because they had chariots of iron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankey Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 I've found it! I've found the bit about iron chariots! Judges 1:19 - And the Lord was with Judah, and he took possession of the hill country, but he could not drive out the inhabitants of the plain because they had chariots of iron Maybe Zeus wanted to borrow a cup of sugar up in heaven and Yahweh wasn't really with Judah at the time? Yahweh forgot the difference between heaven and earths time zone. Even a couple seconds would be a long time to us. Creation science can help us out with this contradiction. hehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution_beyond Posted August 13, 2007 Author Share Posted August 13, 2007 The story of Ehud in Judges is a hoot! Eglon king of Moab was very fat and so when Ehud stabbed him, the blade got stuck and all the fat closed in after it so that Ehud couldn't pull the blade out again I kid you not - Judges 3:17-22 So far, having read the first 8 chapters of Judges I will say only this: These are clearly folk tales, handed down orally before they were finally written down just prior to the exile. This makes them no more factual than the stories of Hercules and Perseus. And myths like those of Perseus are far more entertaining imo - I got really bored reading Gideon's story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbobrob Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 If Christians were not so hardcore about everything in the Bible being the unerring word of God, I would not have such a problem with the book. They hate it when we disect it, taking things out of context, yet they hate it when we tell them they have to take it as a whole, that one part negates other parts. I also plan to reread it soon, along with other sacred texts, and pull out what I like, and mark what I have problems with. Not really for general consumption, except maybe my wife. More to get my own identity organized, so I can live my life free from even hating those who wish to see me burn forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 It's totally different, reading the Bible as a nonbeliever - and not just a nonbeliever, but an outright atheist. Same with the Koran. I'm slogging through both of them, a bit at a time. So far the Koran is a lot more straightforward, less smoke and mirrors and weirdass allegories that make no sense. On a tangent, speaking of taking things out of context - we're not in the Bronze Age or Roman Empire anymore. Isn't the entire Bible thus out of context? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 It's totally different, reading the Bible as a nonbeliever - and not just a nonbeliever, but an outright atheist. Same with the Koran. I'm slogging through both of them, a bit at a time. So far the Koran is a lot more straightforward, less smoke and mirrors and weirdass allegories that make no sense. On a tangent, speaking of taking things out of context - we're not in the Bronze Age or Roman Empire anymore. Isn't the entire Bible thus out of context? Good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michie_s Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 I must admit when I read the title of this thread I wondered why the heck an atheist would want to read the bible. After reading the posts I understand a little more. I guess I'm still too fresh out of xianity to consider even looking at the damn thing much less reading it. Too much of it is stored already in my head. I can't stand anything xian at the moment, it all makes me sick. I cant even imagine wanting to read it ever again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution_beyond Posted August 16, 2007 Author Share Posted August 16, 2007 I must admit when I read the title of this thread I wondered why the heck an atheist would want to read the bible. After reading the posts I understand a little more. I guess I'm still too fresh out of xianity to consider even looking at the damn thing much less reading it. Too much of it is stored already in my head. I can't stand anything xian at the moment, it all makes me sick. I cant even imagine wanting to read it ever again... I've been out of christianity long enough that the silly Bible book doesn't really offend me anymore. I just find it incredibly, incredibly boring. Which is probably reason enough to give up on reading the silly thing. I've just finished reading Judges. It's full of stories so it shouldn't be so bad - but it bored the shit out of me! Maybe it's because it's mostly battles and because the whole thing seems so pointless and unimportant to me now that I don't even believe in God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Actually, Iron chariots at that time would be like the Martian War Machine was to HG Well's audience... not even Egypt had iron chariots... so they got snotted by something all but unearthly (iron being known only in the stones that fell from the sky) Not trying to make sense of the passage, just that it was impressive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankey Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I must admit when I read the title of this thread I wondered why the heck an atheist would want to read the bible. After reading the posts I understand a little more. I guess I'm still too fresh out of xianity to consider even looking at the damn thing much less reading it. Too much of it is stored already in my head. I can't stand anything xian at the moment, it all makes me sick. I cant even imagine wanting to read it ever again... I've been out of christianity long enough that the silly Bible book doesn't really offend me anymore. I just find it incredibly, incredibly boring. Which is probably reason enough to give up on reading the silly thing. I've just finished reading Judges. It's full of stories so it shouldn't be so bad - but it bored the shit out of me! Maybe it's because it's mostly battles and because the whole thing seems so pointless and unimportant to me now that I don't even believe in God For me, I liked parts from proverbs, psalms, Mathew, Mark, Luke, G-John, James...and a few things from Paul. Really though, as a Christian I never really read the bible. I would skim through it a lot. My tastes were a little different than my families.......pentecostal my folks, and the rest of my family S.B.C. I never really read any other religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I must admit when I read the title of this thread I wondered why the heck an atheist would want to read the bible. After reading the posts I understand a little more. I guess I'm still too fresh out of xianity to consider even looking at the damn thing much less reading it. Too much of it is stored already in my head. I can't stand anything xian at the moment, it all makes me sick. I cant even imagine wanting to read it ever again... I've been out of christianity long enough that the silly Bible book doesn't really offend me anymore. I just find it incredibly, incredibly boring. Which is probably reason enough to give up on reading the silly thing. I've just finished reading Judges. It's full of stories so it shouldn't be so bad - but it bored the shit out of me! Maybe it's because it's mostly battles and because the whole thing seems so pointless and unimportant to me now that I don't even believe in God For me, I liked parts from proverbs, psalms, Mathew, Mark, Luke, G-John, James...and a few things from Paul. Really though, as a Christian I never really read the bible. I would skim through it a lot. My tastes were a little different than my families.......pentecostal my folks, and the rest of my family S.B.C. I never really read any other religions. It makes one wonder why there are so many people who claim to be believing Christians and have never read the whole bible. When I was a Roman Catholic I was never encouraged to read the bible. There is too much in the Bible that is an embarrasment to the "Holy" Roman Catholic Church. Hence Roman Catholics are fed the doctrine they are required to believe and discouraged from reading the bible lest they find out the truth. Roman Catholicism has nothing to do with truth. The truth is dangerous to Roman Catholicism and all Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexton Blake Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 On the BBC christian site I debated with a no nothing who claimed to have read the bible 7 times. Christians must read it with their mind in neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexton Blake Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Not just god but demons don't like iron either. Then again, applying logic to the bible, god is the bad guy because he regularly commits mass murder and threatens to torture people forever if they do not believe in him. Satan has never done wrong (the lying Matthew 4 where Satan and Jesus look out over a flat Earth and Satan offers Jesus what he already owns is laughable). Genesis 2 + 3 tells us that god deliberately told a lie to try and stop Adam and Eve getting freewill by saying they would die that day if they ate of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil (freewill) yet after doing so Adam lived another 930 years showing that Satan spoke the truth. With sour grapes, god threatens eternal torture to anyone who uses the freewill Satan gave them. A bit more logic. god is a liar. We know the evil one is the great deciever and we know god didn't make the world or anything else. It seems to me that christians are worshipping the evil one, god when they should be worshipping the good guy, Satan. What happens after death when christians are thrown into hell with god who turns out to just be an evil demon and us atheists end up in heaven because we did not believe god's evil lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necrosmith Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Not just god but demons don't like iron either. Then again, applying logic to the bible, god is the bad guy because he regularly commits mass murder and threatens to torture people forever if they do not believe in him. Satan has never done wrong (the lying Matthew 4 where Satan and Jesus look out over a flat Earth and Satan offers Jesus what he already owns is laughable). Genesis 2 + 3 tells us that god deliberately told a lie to try and stop Adam and Eve getting freewill by saying they would die that day if they ate of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil (freewill) yet after doing so Adam lived another 930 years showing that Satan spoke the truth. With sour grapes, god threatens eternal torture to anyone who uses the freewill Satan gave them. A bit more logic. god is a liar. We know the evil one is the great deciever and we know god didn't make the world or anything else. It seems to me that christians are worshipping the evil one, god when they should be worshipping the good guy, Satan. What happens after death when christians are thrown into hell with god who turns out to just be an evil demon and us atheists end up in heaven because we did not believe god's evil lies. I agree. If you go on body counts alone, I'll take my chances with Satan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Eglon king of Moab was very fat and so when Ehud stabbed him, the blade got stuck and all the fat closed in after it so that Ehud couldn't pull the blade out again That's what happens when you don't put a blood gutter on yer stabbing knife or bayonet. Casey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel.white Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 The bible is the greatest evidence against xianity. NT is even more ridiculous than OT because it blatantly contradicts so many principles that the OT set forth. And it was so clearly and plainly fabricated for the purpose of controlling masses of people. This is why there is suddenly a hell in the NT (biblegateway.com search the bible for "hell" and tell me how many OT results you get), because fear is a great motivator. This is why the holy spirit is suddenly conjured, because the people were getting wise to the fact that god didn't say shit to anyone, so they needed a way to make god internal, in the past there were pillars of fire, plagues, and so on, but these people wouldn't fall for that shit, so tell them theres a spirit inside of them, and thats how they communicate with god. Make god more appealing, suddenly god is all lovey dovey, here to make you happy (nevermind the numerous contradictions). The entire NT was created intentionally for the purpose of controlling xians. Oh, and I swear to her holy pinkness, jesus is making things up as he goes. He'll get asked the same question at different times and give contradictory answers depending on what he was digging at the time. There is a noticable evolution to the character. So far the Koran is a lot more straightforward, less smoke and mirrors and weirdass allegories that make no sense. I don't know what you're talking about, telling unrelated stories is always more clear than just stating what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brookacton Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 The bible is the greatest evidence against xianity. NT is even more ridiculous than OT because it blatantly contradicts so many principles that the OT set forth. And it was so clearly and plainly fabricated for the purpose of controlling masses of people. This is why there is suddenly a hell in the NT (biblegateway.com search the bible for "hell" and tell me how many OT results you get), because fear is a great motivator. This is why the holy spirit is suddenly conjured, because the people were getting wise to the fact that god didn't say shit to anyone, so they needed a way to make god internal, in the past there were pillars of fire, plagues, and so on, but these people wouldn't fall for that shit, so tell them theres a spirit inside of them, and thats how they communicate with god. Make god more appealing, suddenly god is all lovey dovey, here to make you happy (nevermind the numerous contradictions). The entire NT was created intentionally for the purpose of controlling xians. Oh, and I swear to her holy pinkness, jesus is making things up as he goes. He'll get asked the same question at different times and give contradictory answers depending on what he was digging at the time. There is a noticable evolution to the character. So far the Koran is a lot more straightforward, less smoke and mirrors and weirdass allegories that make no sense. I don't know what you're talking about, telling unrelated stories is always more clear than just stating what you mean. The book that really opened my eyes about the bible was "Jesus and Yahweh" by Harold Bloom. He is a lit crit professor at Yale and his perspective of the bible, especially using literary critism techniques, is really fascinating. A lot of his ideas are very similar to what were early gnostic heresies. (such as the idea that the god of the NT and the god of the OT can't be the same god) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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