Have Question

[Jeremy]

I was approached the other day by one of the deacons of my wife’s church. We were at a birthday party for one of kids at the church; I have two young girls so we get invited to a lot of them. Anyway, he knows that I'm an atheist or at least that I have serious doubts about christianity and has offered to get together and talk about it. He’s a nice enough guy, and says he would enjoy having a friendly debate. I'm almost tempted to take him up on it, but really don’t have any experience with debating or know what topics I should bring up. If I go through with this I would like to be prepared, so can anyone offer any suggestions? Or should I just steer clear of this one?

[Japedo]

I was approached the other day by one of the deacons of my wife’s church. We were at a birthday party for one of kids at the church; I have two young girls so we get invited to a lot of them. Anyway, he knows that I'm an atheist or at least that I have serious doubts about christianity and has offered to get together and talk about it. He’s a nice enough guy, and says he would enjoy having a friendly debate. I'm almost tempted to take him up on it, but really don’t have any experience with debating or know what topics I should bring up. If I go through with this I would like to be prepared, so can anyone offer any suggestions? Or should I just steer clear of this one?

 

 

Depends on how prepared you are I guess. I have no idea how much knowledge you have of the bible, which will be the points of reference that he's trying to convince you from. If you are able to point out contradictions, lies, out right instances were god is an obvious hypocrite, then I say go for it. But if you are looking for us to hand you arguments and you're not very knowledgeable yourself about stories and so forth I say stay away from it until you know more.

 

Church leaders especially are practiced in the tactics of persuasion, He will stay away from any topic you attempt to bring up and switch the topic before you know it. He will do this by "cross referencing" to tell you the True ™ meaning of what it's suppose to mean. They are experts of twisting the facts if the person isn't that well versed in counter-evangelism

[Deva]

Church leaders especially are practiced in the tactics of persuasion, He will stay away from any topic you attempt to bring up and switch the topic before you know it. He will do this by "cross referencing" to tell you the True ™ meaning of what it's suppose to mean. They are experts of twisting the facts if the person isn't that well versed in counter-evangelism

 

 

I agree with Japedo. How fundamentalist is this church? If I were you I don't think I would bother taking him on in a debate unless you have done some very extensive study yourself, and I am not implying that you have not.

 

It is just that the fact-twisting is almost sure to happen unless for some reason you believe that he has some doubts himself, then its a whole different ball game, it might be worthwhile.

[mick]

I would take him up on it, and focus on Christianity and the Bible, rather than on whether or not there must be a Creator. ANd throw scriptures like these in his face and ask him to defend: (Look them up in context if you want to get more familiar.)

 

 

Love?

 

"I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children." (Leviticus 26:22)

 

"Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourself every girl who has never slept with a man." (Numbers 31:17-18)

 

"The Lord commands: "... slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women" (Ezechial 9:4-6)

 

"When the Lord delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the males .... As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves." (Deuteronomy 20:13-14)

 

"You will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you." (Deuteronomy 28:53)

 

"The Lord said to Joshua [...] 'you are to hamstring their horses.' " (Exceedingly cruel.) (Joshua 11:6)

 

"... Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword and; also the women and little ones.... every male and every woman that has lain with a male you shall utterly destroy." (Judges 21:10-12)

 

"This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass .... And Saul ... utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword." (1 Samuel 15:3,7-8)

 

"The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their women with child ripped open." (Hosea 13:16)

 

"A curse on him who is lax in doing the LORD's work!

A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed!" (Jeremiah 48:10)

 

Mercy

 

"Blessed are the merciful" [Matthew 5:7]

"Leave alive nothing that breathes. Show them no mercy." [Deut. 7:2]

"The Lord hardened their hearts... that they might receive no mercy." [Joshua 11:20]

"I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the Lord: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them. A curse on him who is lax in doing the Lord's work! A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed." [Jer. 13:14; 48:10]

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Is this really the "word of God" or the cruel thoughts of Bronze age warriors?

Did you know this was in the bible? If not then are you shocked? If you did know it was there then is Christianity really about a healthy loving relationship or is it a case of the Stockholm syndrome?

 

 

 

I was approached the other day by one of the deacons of my wife’s church. We were at a birthday party for one of kids at the church; I have two young girls so we get invited to a lot of them. Anyway, he knows that I'm an atheist or at least that I have serious doubts about christianity and has offered to get together and talk about it. He’s a nice enough guy, and says he would enjoy having a friendly debate. I'm almost tempted to take him up on it, but really don’t have any experience with debating or know what topics I should bring up. If I go through with this I would like to be prepared, so can anyone offer any suggestions? Or should I just steer clear of this one?

[ShackledNoMore]

Also to keep in mind: don't expect him to be in this for a stimulating debate--expect instead that it's an excuse to proselytize.

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

I agree with the group - you have to be prepared when discussing religion with a deacon or pastor. Their training and life's work has been directed toward converting non-believers and they have several tricks up their smocks (whether or not they think of them as tricks).

 

As a few years' experience on this website as well as in "debates" with my friends and family members, I've come to the conclusion that debates are fairly useless anyway. What can be productive is if you and another person decide in good faith to both explore religious claims with an open mind. Then, neither of you are trying to persuade, but instead are openly looking at the issues. I doubt that's what this deacon has in mind, but perhaps you can turn it to that type of discussion if you know him well enough to get him to agree.

 

If you do decide to go ahead with the debate and he's a fundamentalist christian there are a few areas that might get him to think:

 

1. There are contradictions in the bible (which is a problem for those who think the bible is the inerrant word of god).

2. No one has the "original" copies of the books of the bible and there are thousands of copies that are in disagreement with one another over major and minor points.

3. No one knows who most of the authors are of the books of the bible or even when they were written.

4. The current bible is a collection of books that were agreed upon several hundred years after the new testament books were written. They were selected in a political process by Roman Catholic leaders - who most fundamentalists would agree are not "true christians".

5. There are hundreds, if not thousands of christian sects today - each of them feel they are the true christians. Many of these sects have sincere members who believe they are hearing from god and are following what he says. If they are all sincere why hasn't god told them correct path - why does he allow them to continue in error when they are asking him for guidance? They can't all be right.

6. The problem of evil. If god truly is all good and all powerful, why does he allow evil to exist in the world?

 

Good luck - I hope you're able to get him to really engage in a serious exploration of religious beliefs as opposed to a tit for tat debate.

[MrBungle]

You could try this paradox, I've never heard a monotheist give me an answer that was satisfacotry, I've posted this on many forums its my version of a logical impossibility brought up by a greek philospher (although I can't remember who).

 

anyways,

 

Most Christians, Jews, and Muslims claim that god is:

 

1. Omnipotent - All powerful

2. Omniscient - All knowing

3. Omnibenovolent - All good

 

Agree?

 

I'll assume you do.

 

Given events that transpire everyday a being that fits all of these 3 criteron simultaneously is logically impossible. I'll take a true situation that we (hopefully) can all agree is a bad one. Jessica Lunsford, 9, was abducted from her room by John Couey, 47, he raped her then bound her wrists with speaker wire, placed her in a garbage bag and buried her alive in a shallow grave where she suffocated to death.

 

IF God is omni benevolent he would want to stop this right? Yes.

IF God is omniscient he would have known about this event right? Yes.

IF God is omnipotent he would have had the power to stop this right? Yes.

 

Yet it happened anyway... any of us supposedly evil people, had we known in advance would have probably made some effort to stop this event from happening. you would have informed the police, or if you were close to the area maybe even have tried to physically intervene yourself. IF you knew in advance and did nothing, most people would say you are evil or cold for standing idly by and watching the entire thing play out on the evening news unwilling to lift a finger to save an innocent 9 year old girl from kidnapping, rape, and murder.

 

So how does this show a logical inconsistency with the idea of God as portrayed by the monotheistic religions? Simple.

 

IF God knew a 9yr old girl was about to get kidnapped, raped and murdered, had the power to stop it and did nothing, he is NOT omni benevolent.

 

IF God didn't want a 9yr old girl to get kidnapped, raped, and murdered, knew about it and was un-able to prevent it he is NOT omnipotent.

 

IF God doesn't want 9yr old girls to get kidnapped, raped, and murdered, has the power to stop it, but does nothing because he didn't know it was going on/about to happen, then he is NOT omniscient

 

It is logically impossible for God to be all 3 at the same time and still allow evil to exist. Evil does exist. So either God is not omnipotent, omniscient, or omni benevolent, or he does not exist. I'll let you decide which it is?

[♦ nivek ♦]

Talk to this cat, but don't engage the religious discussion.

 

Thing is, anytime any *religious leader* wants time alone with you, it will be at the altar or totally alone. They want a defenseless, backup-less target to drop the gozzpelBombs on.

 

Talk about anything else but their religious preferences. Fishing for information is their usual operation, then they will try and dig under your hide to hook the GoodNooze.. All the time forgetting you've sat through hundreds of hours of buuuuuuuuullllllshit, err, sermonizing.

 

Meet in a public place. Have others around, even if "just in the house", under no circumstances would I allow *alone*.

 

Under these odd and trying times, it might be prudent to try the newly purchaced microphone for your PC system, or try the quality of the tapes on your microcassette that you remembered you had in the old office materials in junue drawer.

 

Never, ever, be interrogated without having some form of *witness for the defense*.

 

Might sound a bit extreme, but covering your ass a "penny saved, pound wise* sorta affair...

 

k, player of sordid shit for lawyersFL

[Jeremy]

I was approached the other day by one of the deacons of my wife’s church. We were at a birthday party for one of kids at the church; I have two young girls so we get invited to a lot of them. Anyway, he knows that I'm an atheist or at least that I have serious doubts about christianity and has offered to get together and talk about it. He’s a nice enough guy, and says he would enjoy having a friendly debate. I'm almost tempted to take him up on it, but really don’t have any experience with debating or know what topics I should bring up. If I go through with this I would like to be prepared, so can anyone offer any suggestions? Or should I just steer clear of this one?

 

 

Depends on how prepared you are I guess. I have no idea how much knowledge you have of the bible, which will be the points of reference that he's trying to convince you from. If you are able to point out contradictions, lies, out right instances were god is an obvious hypocrite, then I say go for it. But if you are looking for us to hand you arguments and you're not very knowledgeable yourself about stories and so forth I say stay away from it until you know more.

 

Church leaders especially are practiced in the tactics of persuasion, He will stay away from any topic you attempt to bring up and switch the topic before you know it. He will do this by "cross referencing" to tell you the True meaning of what it's suppose to mean. They are experts of twisting the facts if the person isn't that well versed in counter-evangelism

 

I would consider myself knowledgeable about the bible; I've spent time in a christian high school and college. I just dont have any experience debating people. I've talked with him briefly a few months back but really didnt go into much detail on why I do not believe. He did seem rather open to what I was saying or at least I felt I had his respect.

[Jeremy]

I would take him up on it, and focus on Christianity and the Bible, rather than on whether or not there must be a Creator. ANd throw scriptures like these in his face and ask him to defend: (Look them up in context if you want to get more familiar.)

 

 

Love?

 

"I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children." (Leviticus 26:22)

 

"Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourself every girl who has never slept with a man." (Numbers 31:17-18)

 

"The Lord commands: "... slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women" (Ezechial 9:4-6)

 

"When the Lord delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the males .... As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves." (Deuteronomy 20:13-14)

 

"You will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you." (Deuteronomy 28:53)

 

"The Lord said to Joshua [...] 'you are to hamstring their horses.' " (Exceedingly cruel.) (Joshua 11:6)

 

"... Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword and; also the women and little ones.... every male and every woman that has lain with a male you shall utterly destroy." (Judges 21:10-12)

 

"This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass .... And Saul ... utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword." (1 Samuel 15:3,7-8)

 

"The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their women with child ripped open." (Hosea 13:16)

 

"A curse on him who is lax in doing the LORD's work!

A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed!" (Jeremiah 48:10)

 

Mercy

 

"Blessed are the merciful" [Matthew 5:7]

"Leave alive nothing that breathes. Show them no mercy." [Deut. 7:2]

"The Lord hardened their hearts... that they might receive no mercy." [Joshua 11:20]

"I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the Lord: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them. A curse on him who is lax in doing the Lord's work! A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed." [Jer. 13:14; 48:10]

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Is this really the "word of God" or the cruel thoughts of Bronze age warriors?

Did you know this was in the bible? If not then are you shocked? If you did know it was there then is Christianity really about a healthy loving relationship or is it a case of the Stockholm syndrome?

 

 

 

I was approached the other day by one of the deacons of my wife’s church. We were at a birthday party for one of kids at the church; I have two young girls so we get invited to a lot of them. Anyway, he knows that I'm an atheist or at least that I have serious doubts about christianity and has offered to get together and talk about it. He’s a nice enough guy, and says he would enjoy having a friendly debate. I'm almost tempted to take him up on it, but really don’t have any experience with debating or know what topics I should bring up. If I go through with this I would like to be prepared, so can anyone offer any suggestions? Or should I just steer clear of this one?

 

I would definitively bring up this topic; it’s something that bothers me also. Thanks!

[Asimov]

There's really no point in talking to this guy. He's had his mind made up for years and he's not about to change it, he also has the experience and the desire to say anything to convince you.

 

You, on the other hand, are not going to be able to bring up a single point on the bible that he can't winnow out of. He has all the answers.

 

My advice is not to bring up the bible, not to bring up Jesus, not to bring up science or anything. Just see what he has to say, and ask questions. Don't try to argue.

[white_raven23]

I was approached the other day by one of the deacons of my wife’s church. We were at a birthday party for one of kids at the church; I have two young girls so we get invited to a lot of them. Anyway, he knows that I'm an atheist or at least that I have serious doubts about christianity and has offered to get together and talk about it. He’s a nice enough guy, and says he would enjoy having a friendly debate. I'm almost tempted to take him up on it, but really don’t have any experience with debating or know what topics I should bring up. If I go through with this I would like to be prepared, so can anyone offer any suggestions? Or should I just steer clear of this one?

 

Here's what gets me. YOU are an atheist. YOU are secure enough with yourself that you can attend events held in a church without acting like a bozo. This minister interrupted YOUR sharing of a birthday event in an effort to confront you about YOUR belief. He couldn't just accept your presence with respect and leave off molesting you about your beliefs at a KID'S BIRTHDAY PARTY.

 

This choice to take total advantage of your mere presence despite the event and context tells me he does NOT respect you. No worthwhile or equal debate can be shared without a modicum of respect between the debators. You just get arguing and thrashing. Much like the Lion's Den here. Not that there's anything wrong with that...but you don't want encounters of that nature occurring in Real Life. There are repercussions in Real Life that you don't have to worry about here.

 

Keep this asshole away from your wife. If she is a christian he will oh-so-subtly try to drive a wedge between you.

[4truth]

If the guy would be interested in listening to reason it might be worth talking to him. However, his only point is to try to convert you. His mind is not open enough to seriously consider any viewpoint but his own. The conversation would be a notch in his belt to fulfill his witnessing duty, but what would the benefit be to you?

[angel.white]

I was approached the other day by one of the deacons of my wife’s church. We were at a birthday party for one of kids at the church; I have two young girls so we get invited to a lot of them. Anyway, he knows that I'm an atheist or at least that I have serious doubts about christianity and has offered to get together and talk about it. He’s a nice enough guy, and says he would enjoy having a friendly debate. I'm almost tempted to take him up on it, but really don’t have any experience with debating or know what topics I should bring up. If I go through with this I would like to be prepared, so can anyone offer any suggestions? Or should I just steer clear of this one?

Run dude, I've spent a lot of time talking to a lot of xians he is too far gone (and when I was an xian, spent a lot of time talking to a lot of atheists, it did nothing but make me feel bad for them, I couldn't see the foolishness of my ways, because things that were foolish had been explained to me as wisdom). If he's so sure of himself that he's accosting you, then he is beyond reason. You will NEVER change his mind, his entire life is invested in this, his belief is now based on his belief and you can't argue against "because I have faith"

 

Its a waste of time, and nothing good will come from it.

 

You could try this paradox, I've never heard a monotheist give me an answer that was satisfacotry, I've posted this on many forums its my version of a logical impossibility brought up by a greek philospher (although I can't remember who).

 

anyways,

 

Most Christians, Jews, and Muslims claim that god is:

 

1. Omnipotent - All powerful

2. Omniscient - All knowing

3. Omnibenovolent - All good

 

Agree?

 

I'll assume you do.

 

Given events that transpire everyday a being that fits all of these 3 criteron simultaneously is logically impossible. I'll take a true situation that we (hopefully) can all agree is a bad one. Jessica Lunsford, 9, was abducted from her room by John Couey, 47, he raped her then bound her wrists with speaker wire, placed her in a garbage bag and buried her alive in a shallow grave where she suffocated to death.

 

IF God is omni benevolent he would want to stop this right? Yes.

IF God is omniscient he would have known about this event right? Yes.

IF God is omnipotent he would have had the power to stop this right? Yes.

 

Yet it happened anyway... any of us supposedly evil people, had we known in advance would have probably made some effort to stop this event from happening. you would have informed the police, or if you were close to the area maybe even have tried to physically intervene yourself. IF you knew in advance and did nothing, most people would say you are evil or cold for standing idly by and watching the entire thing play out on the evening news unwilling to lift a finger to save an innocent 9 year old girl from kidnapping, rape, and murder.

 

So how does this show a logical inconsistency with the idea of God as portrayed by the monotheistic religions? Simple.

 

IF God knew a 9yr old girl was about to get kidnapped, raped and murdered, had the power to stop it and did nothing, he is NOT omni benevolent.

 

IF God didn't want a 9yr old girl to get kidnapped, raped, and murdered, knew about it and was un-able to prevent it he is NOT omnipotent.

 

IF God doesn't want 9yr old girls to get kidnapped, raped, and murdered, has the power to stop it, but does nothing because he didn't know it was going on/about to happen, then he is NOT omniscient

 

It is logically impossible for God to be all 3 at the same time and still allow evil to exist. Evil does exist. So either God is not omnipotent, omniscient, or omni benevolent, or he does not exist. I'll let you decide which it is?

Nah dude, humans are finite creatures with limited understanding of the universe, who can know the mind of god? We can't judge god, its not our place, we can't understand god, we are incapable. They will point to Job, how satan ass-raped his life and Job didnt get it and everyone said "curse god and die" (I didn't look that up, so don't demerit me if not an exact quote) but Job was like "nah dudes, I dig my holy homie" (I did look that one up, though, thats direct translation). In the end, god blessed job like a billion times more than he let satan ass-rape him. So, moral of the story, when it seems like god is bullshit, its just a test, don't you dare question it or you'll go to HELL which lasts for ETERNITY but if you ignorantly cling to your f**** even though everyone thinks you're the fool, then you will go to heaven, and god will bless you and you'll be better than everyone else and they'll all fucking burn. So when everyone thinks you're stupid and nothing is making sense, just keep believing and think about how much better it will be when you show up before god.

 

Xianity is founded on this unquestioning blind f****, don't question, don't think, you will be eternally punished beyond what you can even comprehend. Just accept, and know that all the shit you don't understand, well thats just you, it makes sense to god, you just need to be more dedicated, and have more f****. Be a wide-eyed robot, keep giving your money, keep telling other people to come give their money, keep thinking like you're told, voting like you're told, and giving power to those who tell you what to think. Its all based on controlling the individual, and the power it has over them is almost unfathomable. Even now, I have bleeding wounds (metaphoric) from pulling their control tentacles out of my brain (not metaphoric ...haha j/k, thats metaphoric too).

 

-----

 

So yeah, its futile, but on a semi-logical note, if god does exist, than god defines morality (if you subscribe to the "evil is the absence of god" theory). Therefore, you can't say that anything god does is wrong, because it is inherently right (morally). Meaning you can't use your subjective morality to judge god, if god doesn't have a problem with murder than murder isn't wrong (and if you've read the old testament, you know god has a holy hard-on for homicide -> http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/20...od-killed.html)

[Vigile]

The easiest way to approach this if you are inexeperienced debating this subject is to just keep the ball in his court. Don't let him make any claims without supportive evidence.

 

Don't get into a debate over scripture. It's just a rabbit trail for xians and nothing good will come of it. Instead, make him prove to you why you should even give an ounce of credence to what the bible has to say at all. Demand extraordinary evidence for its extraordinary claims. Refuse to let him use circular logic by defending the bible with the bible. If he claims prophecy is verification, then demand specific examples of fulfilled prophecy; then use your critical thinking skills and pick apart how he has surely subjectively interpreted them.

 

If he goes on the attack with evolution, or other such nonsense, it's a waste time trying to defend. This is another rabbit trail and ultimately disproof of ToE (though they can't do it) would not prove xianity.

 

Again, keep the ball in his court.

[qadeshet]

I'm almost tempted to take him up on it, but really don’t have any experience with debating or know what topics I should bring up. If I go through with this I would like to be prepared, so can anyone offer any suggestions? Or should I just steer clear of this one?

 

If you have to ask the question, then you probably need more study. Wait until you can comfortably demolish every common Xian argument. If there were any really valid arguments for Xianity, we might still be believers. You might begin with Pascal's Wager or the problem of Evil.

[מה טבו]

 

Seriously, I wouldn't touch this one with a 30 foot pole wearing a radiation suit from behind bulletproof glass.

 

If you want to try debating, jump in one of the forums here, but as at least one other person has pointed out, debates in real life have repercussions that debates on teh intertubes don't. For example, bear in mind that this guy has contact with your daughter and her friends. The implications could go beyond you to affect her. Do you really want your kid coming home crying because a bunch of her friends on the playground said her daddy is going to hell? Do you really know this guy that well? Do you really think he won't play dirty like this? Do the other members of that church know that you're not a Christian? If they don't, or they at least think you're a potential candidate, they could opt to stop letting their kids play with your daughter once word gets out that you're not joining the fold. Depending on the nature of this church, and how much interaction your daughter has with these kids outside of this church, she could find herself getting bullied on the playground for having an atheist dad.

 

If you lose the debate, he's going to keep pressing you to convert. If you win it, he's going to call for backup. At the very least, you're going to hear a lot more "witnessing." At worst, it could be coming from your terrified kid.

[quicksand]

Jeremy, my advice is you really want to engage this person do it for your own reasons and for your own growth and understanding of the religious. It's a safe bet he's going to try to convert you. Knowning that gives you a significant advantage. You needed not argue anything, but question his beliefs and ask him honestly what they mean when those beliefs are layed against the sum of his other beliefs. (If A, then not B.) Probe for inconsistencies in his beliefs. We athiests have nothing to fear by our own innate ignorance (and in fact it is our strength), however Christians make definitive truth claims, many of which other members have highlighted in this thread already. You simply have the upper hand here.

 

This is the tatic I use to friends, family or even strangers at the bar if the conversation turns that way. This guy is going to go for the figuritive kill here. Conversion by his witness. Your not bound to conversion like this Deacon guy.

 

Have fun with it.

[Robbobrob]

The only way to learn to deal with debating others is to debate others. Sure, you will probably get your Atheistic butt handed to you, but if you learn from it, and how better to pepare yourself for the next time, all the better.

 

Take it as a learning experience. you don't have to win (because even if you had perfect arguements, you will still lose), but why not do it for the experience of interacting with another human being.