Fucking Bastards Won't Leave Me Alone!

[GraphicsGuy]

Wow, get this. My pastor (from the church my ex and I attended), phones me up out of the blue and wants to "talk" to me.

 

Yeah, you're suffering day in, day out and you can barely get anyone's attention. Get kicked out by your wife for not believing anymore and THEN they want to know what's going on. Not that I asked for attention from the pastor in the first place, but at the moment I REALLY don't want it.

 

I agreed to a meeting next week mostly because it will clear the air and, who knows, maybe he'll actually be reasonable and try to explain things to my ex. She may actually listen to him. Then again, I don't really care anymore.

 

Still, the whole situation has my guts churning again right now. This whole topic area is so raw and bleeding for me that I'm hyper-sensitive about it. Why people insist on ripping the scab open is beyond me. I wish they'd just leave me alone and let me move on.

[fallenleaf]

You don't owe them anything... if you feel uncomfortable or are distressed... you do not need to do anything.

 

Just tell them you can't do it. Something came up... you had a really big dinner the night before and want to spend some quality time on the toilet because that will be more productive... whatever. Let them know they are not very high on your list of priorities... and maybe you need to get your very first manicure that day.

[Astreja]

I agree... Cancel that meeting. Last thing you need right now is more stress.

 

(((hug)))

[Luke Wolf]

Cancel the meeting.

I'd personally tell the pastor to fuck off, but it sounds like you might want to make up some bullshit excuse instead maybe.

[godlessgrrl]

Yeah. Cancel that meeting. If he wants to talk to you, he can go out of his way to email. And you don't owe him a response. You don't owe him or your ex anything at all, when it comes to explanations of your spirituality.

[מה טבו]

I have to ask the obvious here - what do you really think this meeting is going to be about? Do you really believe for one second that he just wants to "talk"?

 

This guy doesn't give two shits about you - he wants to get you back into the fold. He's not going to even attempt to talk your wife into a reconciliation unless he has you back in the pews on Sunday. You're thinking this is going to be cathartic - you're going to vent your spleen on the guy - but how do you think he's going to respond? In what way could this possibly end well?

[angel.white]

I agree with מה טב, if he cared about you, he would have taken interest before now. This guy doesn't miss you, he misses your tithes.

[Vigile]

I'd tell him he can go fuck himself and his Jesus. He's at least partially responsible (and maybe directly) for your wife's idea that the two of you can no longer be together due to your unbelief.

[Deva]

I agree with everyone else, don't go.

 

This person is not entitled to an explanation, or to your time. They wait until a crisis in your life happens and then want to know all about it. Yeah, he'll explain things to the ex all right --then whatever you say will be spread all over the rest of the church. If you think it is confidential--forget it. They gossip under the pretence of "praying about it." If I were in your postion I would have nothing to do with it.

[Robbobrob]

The only way this might, and I stress might, be beneficial to you is....um, I had something, wait, it'll come back to me. Everything I can think of, like keeping good relations with the ex's support (it is HER support system now, not that it seems it ever was yours), just seems to be a disasterous idea.

 

If you do meet with him, let him say his piece, do it in a very public place, and don't give up any information about yourself. Then walk away. He is banking on the concept that everyone trusts clergy.

[Rhia]

Tell that pastor to take it and shove it up his ass sideways. I know the feeling of needing the support and not getting it until it's too late - and it sucks. You don't owe him anything, you don't need to clear the air, it's YOUR life now.

 

I'm sorry people keep rubbing salt in your wounds - my suggestion for now is to avoid those type of people until you feel that you are more emotionally healed to handle everything.

 

You don't need to answer to anyone but yourself and those you choose. Good luck!

[NearlyInsane]

Ugh... I seem to remember you went to one of those really fundy churches. I'm remembering tales I've heard of people being kidnapped & put through some ridiculous brainwashing torture session... I really don't see how anything good can come of this.

[quicksand]

This guy doesn't give two shits about you - he wants to get you back into the fold.

This is most likely the case.

 

Awhile ago I listened to a lecture by Clavinist apologist. "Dr" Robert Morey, entitled "Benign and Malign Atheists", where near the middle of his ridiculous lecture was that if you can not reason with an atheist, just wait until something tragic happens in their life to bring them back to the fold. That is, attack the non-believer when they are at their emoitionally weakest. (Fucking pathetic mindwashing.)

 

מה טבו is dead-on. He thinks your easy prey. If you go, go prepared. Demolish him. Look him in the eye and laugh at his petty attempt to scare or emoitionally badger you back into his belief so he can feel good again. Call him out. "So church-guy is this an attempt to bully me back?"

 

Watch him squirm. Enjoy.

[Japedo]

Wow, get this. My pastor (from the church my ex and I attended), phones me up out of the blue and wants to "talk" to me.

 

Yeah, you're suffering day in, day out and you can barely get anyone's attention. Get kicked out by your wife for not believing anymore and THEN they want to know what's going on. Not that I asked for attention from the pastor in the first place, but at the moment I REALLY don't want it.

 

I agreed to a meeting next week mostly because it will clear the air and, who knows, maybe he'll actually be reasonable and try to explain things to my ex. She may actually listen to him. Then again, I don't really care anymore.

 

Still, the whole situation has my guts churning again right now. This whole topic area is so raw and bleeding for me that I'm hyper-sensitive about it. Why people insist on ripping the scab open is beyond me. I wish they'd just leave me alone and let me move on.

 

For your own protection and sanity I agree with all the posters who gave the advice to pass. You have no idea if any of the information he gets from you can be used against you in court. I don't put manipulation past these people who will do anything to 'protect' their sheep.

 

 

You have been thru a tremendous emotionally gut wrenching ordeal, talk to someone who can/will sympathize with where you're at and not judge you. You need to put yourself in situations that will help and assist you, not hinder and depress you. He will not address any intellectual issues you have with god/church he will make pleas to your weakness and raw emotions and pain. I'd call him up and cancel, or leave a note and just explain at this time you prefer not to talk to him. I find it highly suspect that all of a sudden he feels lead to 'talk to you'. If he gave a shit, he would have showed up at the door at the first sign of trouble in your marriage. Now that you're out on your own moving on trying to recover... . all of a sudden he wants to assist? Smells like BS to me.

[Vigile]

My only question here is, and forgive me if I missed it somewhere, do you have kids and is there going to be a custody battle?

 

If there are no kids involved and visiting priveledges are not in question, then let this guy have it with both barrels if you are so inclined. Otherwise, avoid this meeting like the plague.

 

*edit* What Japedo said is better advice. Consider what might be used against you in your divorce hearings (if any) and tread carefully.

[Robbobrob]

There is that whole legal issue to consider. Don't want to give him ammo that he hands over to your wife so she can destroy you in court.

[GraphicsGuy]

Thanks to ALL of you! This group is fantastic!

 

I thought about it last night a lot and decided to cancel even before seeing all of your posts.

 

This pastor is actually someone I have a fair amount of respect for (it's previous churches that did the most damage to me), but regardless of that he is still a fundy. I don't want to go, because there is NOTHING I haven't heard before. You all know that it's true. We've heard it ALL and it's all pigshit being sprayed around the field. There is absolutely no point to go and talk to him because there's is nothing he can say to make me believe again or to fix my marriage.

 

As a sidenote, I doubt my wife called him for support. I was always the looking for support and counselling and advice - she always refused to come.

 

There are no custody battles regarding the kids since only one of them is biologically mine and the older ones are old enough to make their own choices. As long as the Ex doesn't cut my visitation days down I have no need to go seeking legal counsel.

[GraphicsGuy]

Letter I just e-mailed the pastor:

 

Pastor Paul,

 

I apologize for this, but I need to be as blunt and concise and possible and state that I DON'T want to meet with you next Wednesday as we agreed. I agreed to the meeting too quickly due to the surprise of your call and out of a false sense of obligation. The fact is that I don't want to talk about the situation anymore because there is nothing left to discuss.

 

I do not know what you were wishing to discuss. Whether it was my marriage break-up or if my ex-wife somehow mentioned to you that I have lost my faith. I will sum the situation up for you in this e-mail, but I want you to understand that there really is nothing you can say to me that I have not heard before.

 

You know my past from what I have written to you before. I don't necessarily expect you to remember it, but a quick reminder is that my marriage has been on the rocks for years due to my pornography addiction and attention-seeking habits with talking to women online, etc. My relationship with god has also been a continuous roller coaster ride - up and down, up and down, up and down.

 

Very long story short, it turned out that I had a hormone deficiency that was causing a lot of mental/emotional issues. My testosterone was low and all the struggling and mental torture I put myself through was unnecessary and damaging.

 

Ten days into hormone replacement (pills to jumpstart my natural factory) my severe clinical depression and my pornography addiction JUST WENT AWAY. I struggled and hated myself for so many years. I prayed, read my Bible, cried out to god, attended men's groups, counselling, read books on purity, even went for deliverance and absolutely none of it did me one damn ounce of good. All it did was make me WORSE because I would go on religious "highs" that would just end in crashing depressive lows.

 

I even had schizophrenic tendancies because I believed that I could talk to god in my head. I was never able to speak in tongues so I was confused about that and wanted to just believe that I had received some kind of "gift" from the spirit. But all I was doing was driving myself slowly insane.

 

The Bible promises healing. Jesus promised an abundant, joyful life. One of the fruits of the spirit is a sound mind. I received none of that. Christianity came up empty for me. It's not that I won't believe now, I CAN'T believe. God could have healed me, but he didn't...maybe it's because he doesn't exist even. All I know is that modern medicine, man, healed me.

 

The only explanation that Christianity can give me is to say, "Maybe it wasn't God's will..." Oh, so it was god's will that I should suffer daily mental torture, destroy my marriage, and end up not believing in him because I CAN'T? I didn't have control over my life, it was strictly at the whim of my emotional and mental state. I let that and everyone around me control me. Not once have I ever made a decision in my life because I WANTED to make it. The decision was always swayed by what people or god wanted of me. How is that kind of life "God's will" for anyone?

 

No more. My life is MINE.

 

For the first time in my life I am of sound mind, I am happy, and life is seeming full of abundant possibilities and it's all WITHOUT Jesus.

 

I absolutely know that this letter does not sound happy, but that is only because THIS topic makes me excessively, raging angry right now. Why? Because Christians simply do not understand what I have gone through and why I feel like I do. They think I just didn't have enough faith or maybe I never believed the right things or I'm not accepting "god's will" or maybe god healed me with medicine. Then all they do is try to reconvert me and when that fails then they condemn me and say I'm going to hell.

 

So, should I just believe to avoid hell? If that's the case, then my faith IS NOT REAL. It is just based on fear of punishment. Church attendance is nothing more than fire insurance and the selfish desire to save my own ass.

 

I'm sick of faking my life on the outside. If my life is to be the real-deal, then I have to be the one to make the decisions and choose the way.

 

As for my marriage, it's been over a long time. I slept in the basement for over a year due to the damage that my hormone imbalance caused. After the hormones were fixed, how could I fix the marriage? My wife absolutely dead-refused to attend any form of counselling. I could not talk to her about the issues I had with religion because all I received was stone-wall arguments that didn't allow for genuine conversation and understanding. If I didn't agree with her then I was wrong and I had to change my opinion.

 

She's an immature person who only cares about movies and music and collecting "stuff" for the house. She has issues and she's afraid to deal with them or she simply doesn't know she has them. It's "her way or the highway" with her so I finally, finally took the highway as much as I hated doing so.

 

So, again Pastor Paul, I apologize for this letter, but I will tell you it could have been worse because I really wanted to insert the word "fuck" in a large number of places. It's a wonderfully expressive word when you're this angry about something.

 

The fact is, religion damaged me. It hurt me. The wound is raw and bleeding and very, very sensitive. There is, unfortunately, nothing you can say that I haven't already heard. Nothing you can suggest that I haven't already tried. No scripture that will bring healing to this pain.

 

Avoiding contact as much as possible and time are all that will heal this absess.

 

I have to figure this out for myself, because my life is mine to live, not anybody else's to control.

 

 

Mark

[Vigile]

I'd take out the "pastor" part and just call him Paul if it were me. He's not your shepherd afterall.

 

I'm still reading...

 

Further, and again, if it were me, I'd keep it short. The first paragraph is enough. The rest just brings to mind Hamlet's "me thinks the lady doth protest too much."

 

Take it for what it's worth. It's just my reaction. I could be way off.

[quicksand]

Mark, that was powerful. Good job. Your right, your life is yours. Live it and bring meaning to it. Congrats.

[Japedo]

What an outstanding letter. It's right to the point... Bravo on being able to be brutally honest with such a hard and horrific ordeal. I think you showed great restraint in emotion and just dealt with the facts.

[Robbobrob]

I bet the Pastor gets all, "But I wasn't going to do any of that, you assumed too much." Don't let them get to you. That letter was not really to him....it was directed right at yourself. You have been through so much, and you have learned much about yourself, and you have dealt with medical issues no one should have to deal with.

 

I know there is a lot more pain to come, but I think you are well on your way to building a happy and healthy life.

[angel.white]

Good letter, I especially enjoyed "So, should I just believe to avoid hell? If that's the case, then my faith IS NOT REAL. It is just based on fear of punishment." Which is a lovely little middle finger to pascal's wager After all, f**** is not an action it is a belief, you can perform an action based on comprehending risk/reward scenarios, but how do you change your heart held beliefs to defy reason, all for an unlikely statistical possibility? I don't think its possible.

[GraphicsGuy]

Thanks again you guys. Special thanks to whoever it was who started this board. I doubt I would have suicided (since I'm not suicidal anymore), but I would have felt really alone in my struggles right now if I didn't have this area to detail my woes.

[AgnosticBob AtheistPants]

As a sidenote, I doubt my wife called him for support. I was always the looking for support and counselling and advice - she always refused to come.

 

Wow, yet another thing our exes seem to have in common. Of course counseling with a fundy is never going to come out in your favor (or even with any mutually satisfying results) if you're a non-Christian. I asked my ex several times during our marriage to go to counseling. Her response? "I don't want anyone else knowing our problems." She thought Jesus would handle it all. You know, "Let go and let God" and all that stupid shit.

 

As for the meeting with your pastor, I have to agree that nothing beneficial to you would probably come of it, unless you consider getting to tell him exactly why you no longer believe in his god a form of closure. Personally I think it would be a waste of time. I don't know your pastor, but I also had a great deal of respect for the pastor of our church...until he made off with a quarter million dollars of the church's money. Well...that's the rumor anyway. He just decided one day that he was leaving and did not inform the congregation formally. Some of the deacons are the ones that leaked the rumor about $250k being unaccounted for. The pastor and his wife and family just disappeared. They're now pastoring a church in Chattanooga, Tennessee. So, I learned that Steve Martin's portrayal of the preacher in Leap of Faith is dead on in most cases.

 

I also had the same problem you did. When I wanted to talk to the Pastor as I was in the process of losing my faith, there was no time. Of course, maybe he was too busy embezzling to be bothered with it...