Considering Deconversion, Need Help!

[Guest anonomillan]

Hi, all. I've been lurking this forum for a while now and I've been wanting to ask this question but I haven't really got up the nerve to make an account until now...

 

I'll give you the background first. I'm fifteen, going to be a sophmore in high school. My mom is an ex-Catholic (she didn't really de-convert, she just didn't believe in Catholicism and during college she decided to be just 'spiritual' with God), my dad is Jewish by heritage but not religious at all. My family is totally not into religion at all. When I was little we used to go to church maybe once a month but we stopped going pretty quickly. My parents gave me freedom to choose whatever religion/belief I wanted, I know they wouldn't care if I was a devout fundementalist or a bible burning atheist. Actually, they probably would, but that's beside the point.

 

I became a Christian at the end of 7th grade- and it wasn't just something for show, it was for real. I consider myself a pretty intelligent person. I was debating religion a lot in 6th grade and I decided that I was atheist. Then, my friend convinced me to go to her youth group. I started going weekly just to hear the messages- even as an atheist, I felt that they had a lot of meat and good advice. Eventually I decided I wanted into this religion- I wanted Jesus in my life and I wanted to live for God. To be honest, I wasn't scared in like a lot of people are. My church is incredibly kind, warm and somewhat liberal. So, I ended up going on a Christian houseboat camp with my church. I was so intrigued by everything. I really, really wanted Jesus. So on the last night, I went up to the youth pastor and told him that I had no idea how to receive God. He prayed for me and we prayed together and then I was saved, I guess. I was psyched to have Jesus in my life, guiding me, etc.

 

My church is kind of unique. They aren't really intense but they are serious about salvation. I remember clearly getting goosebumps when the youth pastor told us he thought that all Mormons were going to hell. That night I decided that I didn't believe in hell. After that, I kind of began to get my own beliefs. Throughout eighth and ninth grade, I was "growing in Christ", trying (usually unsuccesfully) to be 100% righteous all the time. I had my times when I would be wandering away from God but it was never serious and I would always get back into praying/devotions and such.

 

Anyway, when I joined the high school youth group at my youth group, the messages became more intense. They talked about people going to hell and Jesus loving Christians the most. They talked about how gays were horrible and were going to hell. It was this strange side of my church that I had never seen before. I was also struggling with "temptations" that were coming at me in high school. I had desires to break rules and party, which I felt like Christianity was restraining me from. I'm a person that has a strong belief in being free, and Christianity is something like slavery in certain ways. I began to hate that God didn't want me to have fun with my life, to make the most of it. I kept trying to modify my personal beliefs and I had to make changes in my faith- I stopped taking the Bible literally and I started having my own terms with God. I'm starting to find that I like this relationship 1000% times better than being a Christian. I like having a God rather than the Holy Trinity and just doing whatever they tell me at youth group.

 

Here's my dilemma: I'm just at the beginning of a deconversion. I'm really, really afraid to leave Christianity. It's something that I've devoted three years of my life to, and I took it literally. It's very difficult for me to not believe that I'm not gonna go to hell if I leave Jesus. I keep changing my mind... I'll be lying in bed one night and suddenly I'll be burning to go back to Christianity. The next day I'll internally debate and decide I don't want to be Christian. It's so confusing, but I think most of me wants to leave Christianity. The biggest problem is leaving my youth group. It's an amazing place full of amazing people that are my good friends, but they're people that I know would scoff at me if they found out I just 'left' Jesus. They'd make me an outcast if I went to the church and my leaders would be so disappointed in me. These are people that I know I would have to sever my relationships with if I left religion. There's also several church trips over the year that I attend regularly, most importantly, a mission trip to Mexico where we build houses for a week. I'm not sure if as an ex-Christian I would be able to attend without it being awkward. Should I stop going to youth group and ignore them, tell them about my deconversion or just pretend to be Christian and keep going? I need serious guidance here! Thanks, guys.

 

-anonymous

[godlessgrrl]

Welcome, 'nonymous. Brave man, posting your struggles here... and what struggles they are, aren't they.

 

No worries - so many of us here have gone through more or less the same struggle, myself included, and I'm sure the better for having gone through it, and having come out of what I think was ultimately a very harmful belief system. You're not alone by a long shot, in fact you sound like you're going through some very normal, healthy stuff: trying to figure out who you are and what you think and what you believe. Maybe it bears saying: there's nothing wrong with trying to work all that out, and everything right about it.

 

A few questions for you, and a few random thoughts, in no particular order:

 

Why are you most afraid to leave Xianity? Is because of a fear of hell? Is it because you fear that your life would become meaningless and hedonistic? Do you fear losing your friends? Do you fear being shunned or rejected by them? Do you sense that your life would change dramatically, and you fear the upheaval that drastic change inevitably causes?

 

I am of the mind that a person's spirituality is something deeply personal, deeply private, and very important - important and personal enough that it can't and shouldn't be dictated by anything or anyone but your own conscience and your own thought processes. Other people's disappointment in and rejection of you because of your beliefs is painful, but it is far less painful - and far less humiliating - than trying to shape yourself to their expectations of you. It's nobody's damn business what religion you follow, or don't follow, really.

 

Abandoning Xianity doesn't lead down a hedonistic, amoral, crime-ridden path, contrary to what a lot of hardcore Xians will tell you. To the contrary, I know that I for one am a much better person for having left Xianity: I no longer hate myself, I enjoy my life a lot more, I don't worry any longer about trying to please a tyrannical, perfectionist deity, or trying to live up to the impossibly degrading standards of any church. I'm more laid back, happier, healthier, and just generally more full of joy and vitality than I ever was as a believer. And, contrary to what a Xian might tell you, I don't go around selling drugs to children, having sex with sheep, or dressing up puppies in nuns' habits.

 

On the flip side, some of the most dishonest, sneaky, manipulative, crafty people I have ever known were Xians much like the ones in your highschool group (of the judgmental, fundie type). If you fear what you might become if you leave, rest assured: religious belief is no good indicator of moral integrity. Your morality is what you make it.

 

On that fear of hell - yeah. That can be hard to get over. I got over it by taking a close look at the god of the Bible, and realizing that he wasn't anybody that I really wanted to follow anyway - and if he was really so unjust as to send humanity to an infinite eternity of hell for what were finite sins (which he could've easily forgiven without the need for a sacrifice at all, if he is in fact god), then I preferred to be in hell with my loved ones.

 

Really, though, I think that just thinking all these things through - using your head, using your critical thinking skills, taking the time to actually analyze Xianity and see if it makes good sense - will get you a lot farther than advice from anybody might. Because ultimately, stuff like this is up to you.

 

I think it's great that you're trying to figure it all out, though, and it's brave of you to post about it. Good on you for that! :thumbsup:

[Piprus]

Welcome, anonamillan...

Here's my dilemma: I'm just at the beginning of a deconversion. I'm really, really afraid to leave Christianity. It's something that I've devoted three years of my life to, and I took it literally. It's very difficult for me to not believe that I'm not gonna go to hell if I leave Jesus. I keep changing my mind... I'll be lying in bed one night and suddenly I'll be burning to go back to Christianity. The next day I'll internally debate and decide I don't want to be Christian. It's so confusing, but I think most of me wants to leave Christianity. The biggest problem is leaving my youth group. It's an amazing place full of amazing people that are my good friends, but they're people that I know would scoff at me if they found out I just 'left' Jesus. They'd make me an outcast if I went to the church and my leaders would be so disappointed in me. These are people that I know I would have to sever my relationships with if I left religion. There's also several church trips over the year that I attend regularly, most importantly, a mission trip to Mexico where we build houses for a week. I'm not sure if as an ex-Christian I would be able to attend without it being awkward. Should I stop going to youth group and ignore them, tell them about my deconversion or just pretend to be Christian and keep going? I need serious guidance here! Thanks, guys

I was about your age when I de-christianized.

I had friends in the church too, a good bunch of people. But it wasn't long before I found other things to do, and other people to hang out with. Though that's a dilemma, the alternative would be faking it to stay in a peer group that isn't really any longer your peer group. You would be living a lie, and being dishonest not only with them, but yourself as well. And that can't help but put you at risk for anxiety or depression at some point. Sooner or later, you've got to turn your cards face up.

 

There are hundreds of good reasons to reject christianity, the biggest being that it's based on nothing but a myth. There is no evidence that Jesus Christ ever existed. THere's no sound reason to think that even if a supreme god exists that it would require you to invoke a blood sacrifice, especially a human one, to slake its wrath against you for...what? Being born a human being with a human nature? There's no basis to believe that hell exists either.

 

Christianity is a rotten belief system built on guilt, shame, and fear. Now if it fulfills your needs...fine. It's your choice. But if you conclude that you can no longer believe it, then be honest with yourself. Certainly your life will change as a result. But your life will undergo many changes along its course anyway. Friends and groups of friends come and go, even among christians.

[Taphophilia]

Hi Anonymous,

 

I'm so impressed that someone so young can be so on the ball and you write very well, in fact, better than lots of adults.

 

You are not going through anything different than any of us have gone through, and as Gwenmead said, it's all normal.

 

Though, I do understand how important it is at your age to belong to a group and have friends. You are already very mature for you age and I can already see you outgrowing them. Do you have anything in common with the others in your youth group or do you just feel very accepted by them? There are other groups where you could more easily express your ideas and opinoins. Have you tried a Unitarian church? They have youth groups also, do a lot of humanitarian work, and don't push any belief system. You mentioned that your dad is Jewish, have you thought about Liberal Judaism? They would probably be more in line with your beliefs and would have people your age to associate with.

 

Taph

[Ahh!]

First of all, I would recommend exploring your Jewish roots. I explored Judaism after leaving Christianity, and it calmed many of my fears about a wrathful Christian God. Judaism is living proof that Christianity's teachings do not work. If they did, the Jews would be Christians. Never mind what your pastor may say about the matter- I had a pastor tell me that Judaism exsisted because the Jews "didn't do their research"- which was an absurd statement considering he didn't know Hebrew (the language the Jewish authors of the Bible wrote it in), he had no formal theological training, and he relied more heavily on church doctrines than the actual Bible. If you still believe in a God, really consider exploring Judaism. At least get the For Dummies book on it; it is SO different than Christianity. Even if you don't believe in a God, there is something called Secular Judaism, which is a group of atheists who honor their Jewish roots by following parts of the religion that they consider valuable. These groups can create the same sense of community a youth group does and have just as many nice people in them.

 

Also check out Jewish websites on why Christianity isn't true:

http://www.messiahtruth.com/ (excellent, excellent resource)

http://www.outreachjudaism.org/

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/

 

Now besides that, it sounds to me you have more of a social problem than a religious one. You're worried about what people might think. You say some people might sever relations with you.

 

A person is who they surround his or herself with. The people you let be around you have powerful influence over you. You want to only have positive people around you, so that you can live a positive life. Sometimes, as is often the case with religion, people can appear positive but they can actually be a negative influence on you. If someone is going to judge you, and think you're immoral because you're not a Christian, that's a person you're better off not being around anyway. I know that sounds harsh but sometimes what can be painful in the short term is what's best in a long-term. Do you have any idea how much emotional pain fundamentalists can put you through if you let them stay around you and constantly judge you? You're better off alone for a little while. You'll find better people to be around, sometimes ones that are more moral and loving than the Christians are. If they have something to say, let them say it. Little people have big mouths, and petty people claim to be concerned about "the big things." There are so many better people out there, so many better things to be doing with your time. You can find them.

[LithaB]

Here's my dilemma: I'm just at the beginning of a deconversion. I'm really, really afraid to leave Christianity. It's something that I've devoted three years of my life to, and I took it literally. It's very difficult for me to not believe that I'm not gonna go to hell if I leave Jesus.

 

This is a tough nut to crack for many people who leave christianity. I think it's interesting that so many fear hell yet so few people fear losing an eternity of love, peace, and joy in heaven. And if it's easier to believe in hell than it is to believe in heaven, what does that tell you about what you really think of Jesus? Why is it easier to believe that he is willing to torture most of us for eternity than it is to believe he would lay down his life to save us?

 

I keep changing my mind... I'll be lying in bed one night and suddenly I'll be burning to go back to Christianity. The next day I'll internally debate and decide I don't want to be Christian. It's so confusing, but I think most of me wants to leave Christianity.

 

Don't rush it, just continue questioning. The truth will set you free eventually.

 

The biggest problem is leaving my youth group. It's an amazing place full of amazing people that are my good friends, but they're people that I know would scoff at me if they found out I just 'left' Jesus. They'd make me an outcast if I went to the church and my leaders would be so disappointed in me. These are people that I know I would have to sever my relationships with if I left religion.

 

I would recommend that you start now by telling them how you honestly feel. Ask them to help you sort out your questions and doubts while they are still your friends. You may be surprised to learn that many of them are also questioning and will want to join you in deconversion.

 

At the same time, start building relationships with other people outside your church. Work to form a new circle of friends based on secular interests (sports, music, etc). Then when you are ready to leave the fold permanently, you won't be feel so "all alone".

"

There's also several church trips over the year that I attend regularly, most importantly, a mission trip to Mexico where we build houses for a week. I'm not sure if as an ex-Christian I would be able to attend without it being awkward. Should I stop going to youth group and ignore them, tell them about my deconversion or just pretend to be Christian and keep going?

 

Again, my recommendation is that you be honest with them. Tell them you have moments when you are "burning" with faith but that you are sometimes overcome by doubts. Tell them you want to help on the mission trips in spite of your doubts, and ask them what they think.

 

At the same time, look into opportunities with groups like Habitat for Humanity or Americorps. There is no need to give up volunteerism just because you are no longer a Christian. In fact you will be a better volunteer because you don't have any ulterior motive of converting your targets.

 

And keep posting here. As gwenmead said, most of us here have been through similar experiences.

[Robbobrob]

First, welcome. Glad you stopped being a lurker, and decided to speak your mind. Always a good thing.

 

The thing that jumped out to me the most about your post was the fact that you did not fear anyone thinking you were an Atheist in 6th grade, checked out Christianity without fear, but now you are fearful of leaving and what people think.

 

I find that an amazing deconstruction of your ego and ability to deal with new situations has happened to you, all at the hands of those you have considered your friends and spiritual leaders. I hope you can see what your belief has claimed from you as well as the burden of unwarranted fear it has added to your life.

[Legion]

The fear of hell should pass after a while. Jesus and hell go hand in hand. If you don’t believe in Jesus then sooner or later you will probably lose your belief in hell.

 

As for your friends, that may be a little more troubling. Seeing as you largely don’t believe any longer, do you really think you’ll be able to pretend? Do you think by pretending that you will have the true intimacy that you desire to have with those you call friends?

 

I hope that you remember this. Giving up your religion does not necessitate that you give up your integrity.

[BobbyCole]

Your dilemma isn't really a dilemma. Your very young. I knew at 15 it was all a fairytale. Once you firmly believe what will probably naturally happen, you won't look back and you won't want to hang out with these people although at the moment you feel close to them. I have relatives that are crazed religious fanatics. I can't be in the same room with them.. This is a natural progression... You will have eventually have to rid yourself of cancer, because that is what it is. Let them talk about you and how Satan has won you over, because that's what they'll say.. Be true to yourself, the rest will follow..

 

Bobby

[Mman2000]

I'll give you the background first. I'm fifteen, going to be a sophmore in high school. My mom is an ex-Catholic (she didn't really de-convert, she just didn't believe in Catholicism and during college she decided to be just 'spiritual' with God), my dad is Jewish by heritage but not religious at all. My family is totally not into religion at all. When I was little we used to go to church maybe once a month but we stopped going pretty quickly. My parents gave me freedom to choose whatever religion/belief I wanted, I know they wouldn't care if I was a devout fundementalist or a bible burning atheist. Actually, they probably would, but that's beside the point.

 

If they're giving you the freedom, they don't really value it much themselves. Chances are it won't matter, but I'm no psychic.

 

I became a Christian at the end of 7th grade- and it wasn't just something for show, it was for real. I consider myself a pretty intelligent person. I was debating religion a lot in 6th grade and I decided that I was atheist. Then, my friend convinced me to go to her youth group. I started going weekly just to hear the messages- even as an atheist, I felt that they had a lot of meat and good advice. Eventually I decided I wanted into this religion- I wanted Jesus in my life and I wanted to live for God. To be honest, I wasn't scared in like a lot of people are. My church is incredibly kind, warm and somewhat liberal. So, I ended up going on a Christian houseboat camp with my church. I was so intrigued by everything. I really, really wanted Jesus. So on the last night, I went up to the youth pastor and told him that I had no idea how to receive God. He prayed for me and we prayed together and then I was saved, I guess. I was psyched to have Jesus in my life, guiding me, etc.

 

Sounds like they introduced you to the "good" of christianity without introducing you to the "bad", aka cherry picking for Jesus.

 

My church is kind of unique. They aren't really intense but they are serious about salvation. I remember clearly getting goosebumps when the youth pastor told us he thought that all Mormons were going to hell. That night I decided that I didn't believe in hell. After that, I kind of began to get my own beliefs. Throughout eighth and ninth grade, I was "growing in Christ", trying (usually unsuccesfully) to be 100% righteous all the time. I had my times when I would be wandering away from God but it was never serious and I would always get back into praying/devotions and such.

 

This is the usual consequence of cherry picking for Jesus. When introduced to the parts of christianity that aren't so good, people question. Once the "good shepherd" images of Christianity are shattered in your mind, you can't really go back. It's like trying to un-ring a bell.

 

Anyway, when I joined the high school youth group at my youth group, the messages became more intense. They talked about people going to hell and Jesus loving Christians the most. They talked about how gays were horrible and were going to hell. It was this strange side of my church that I had never seen before. I was also struggling with "temptations" that were coming at me in high school. I had desires to break rules and party, which I felt like Christianity was restraining me from. I'm a person that has a strong belief in being free, and Christianity is something like slavery in certain ways. I began to hate that God didn't want me to have fun with my life, to make the most of it. I kept trying to modify my personal beliefs and I had to make changes in my faith- I stopped taking the Bible literally and I started having my own terms with God. I'm starting to find that I like this relationship 1000% times better than being a Christian. I like having a God rather than the Holy Trinity and just doing whatever they tell me at youth group.

 

Sounds like they took the image of christianity your first youth group gave you and smashed it to pieces. They pulled off the first part of the de-conversion process: removing the comfort that comes with the faith.

 

Here's my dilemma: I'm just at the beginning of a deconversion. I'm really, really afraid to leave Christianity. It's something that I've devoted three years of my life to, and I took it literally. It's very difficult for me to not believe that I'm not gonna go to hell if I leave Jesus. I keep changing my mind... I'll be lying in bed one night and suddenly I'll be burning to go back to Christianity. The next day I'll internally debate and decide I don't want to be Christian. It's so confusing, but I think most of me wants to leave Christianity. The biggest problem is leaving my youth group. It's an amazing place full of amazing people that are my good friends, but they're people that I know would scoff at me if they found out I just 'left' Jesus. They'd make me an outcast if I went to the church and my leaders would be so disappointed in me. These are people that I know I would have to sever my relationships with if I left religion. There's also several church trips over the year that I attend regularly, most importantly, a mission trip to Mexico where we build houses for a week. I'm not sure if as an ex-Christian I would be able to attend without it being awkward. Should I stop going to youth group and ignore them, tell them about my deconversion or just pretend to be Christian and keep going? I need serious guidance here! Thanks, guys.

 

-anonymous

 

Ask questions, demand logical proof and valid reasons. If you reach the conclusion that I did, that christianity is bullshit, the fear of hell will fade.

If your friends shun you because you chose to deconvert, they aren't your friends, don't miss them at all.

[Lycorth]

Welcome, anonomillan!

 

Your troubles in leaving Xianity are not uncommon, and stem from the deep programming of fear this religion has as part of its nature. It makes you so afraid to leave it, entertaining thoughts of doing so is troubling at first. But, fear not - we did it and so can you

 

The fear of hell should pass after a while. Jesus and hell go hand in hand. If you don’t believe in Jesus then sooner or later you will probably lose your belief in hell.

 

Precisely. It's just like being afraid of anything that is made-up and without proof of its reality. After a time, you get used to the fact that the world doesn't end if you stop believing in Jesus or blaspheme the Xian god. That alone will slowly start convincing you that there's really nothing to worry about.

 

I hope that you remember this. Giving up your religion does not necessitate that you give up your integrity.

 

That is the absolute truth. Xianity was at one time a vehicle for human morality, but it is not so anymore, and it was never the sole vehicle for it, anyway. Moreover, Xianity is also a vehicle for a lot of objectively immoral behavior, since it promotes an elitist attitude (we're better and smarter because we're Xians), black and white dualism (us-versus-them instead of a realistic look at good and evil), and a variety of prejudices - hatred against homosexuals, non-believers, and ever other races all have their roots in the Old Testament, the first half of the Xian Bible, and all found justification in the New Testament as well. Far from being a "moral" religion, Xianity is actually quite immoral, as one look at all the blood spilled in history for the sake of spreading Xianity will help indicate.

 

Take a look at a page of my humble little website; it has both my ex-timony and, at the bottom, lots of handy links to other websites that will help inform you further about the faults and failings of Xianity. There's no reason to be afraid of a god that doesn't exist and isn't worthy of our worship even if he did.

[Ouroboros]

Here's my dilemma: I'm just at the beginning of a deconversion. I'm really, really afraid to leave Christianity. It's something that I've devoted three years of my life to, and I took it literally.

Imagine doing it for 30 years. I went on mission trips, knocked doors to tell people about Jesus, evangelized in the down town, went to a extreme fundamentalist Bible school, I went all out, and see where I am now!

 

Anon, I know it is hard. It was a process, you can't just change over night. You very likely will have this rollercoaster for a while until your mind start to put the pieces together. Welcome to the board. I wish you good luck, and know that we're here for you.