Senoto Craig Resigns

[Oldjew]

This was copied from the news on Netscape:

 

Sen. Larry Craig Resigns From Office

 

Politics – Idaho Republican Sen. Larry Craig has announced his resignation from the Senate, saying he will forgo whatever legal options he might have following his arrest during a sex sting in a Minneapolis airport.

Vice cop are just an extension of the Christian church and ought to be done away with and outlawed in all states under the separation of church and state.

It is called entrapment and if atheist would ban together and start picketing police stations across the nation for the separation of church and state to outlaw vice officers it would be a step in right direction. We need a nation wide letter writing campaign to every major police department in the nation that vice officers are an extension of religion and we do not want them under the Constitution of the separation of church and state.

 

Then we need to write to our representatives to outlaw vice cops through Congress and on the state levels. If enough of us do it vice officers can no longer serve the theist cause and it will be one step away from removing the special rights of theist over other groups.

 

Homosexuality should not be a crime any more than being a heterosexual as it is a natural thing amongst all species, but religion is abnormal and against nature as it corrupts nature.

[Llwellyn]

I disagree. People should not be shitting on the sidewalks. Neither should they be having sex in bathrooms. There is a right time and place for everything, and bathrooms are not the right place for sexual encounters. Bathroom sex and propositioning is disruptive and threatening. As someone who has been the victim of lewd exhibitionism in a bathroom, I support vice-patrolling. If you want anonymous sex, then post an ad on Craig'sList like everyone else, don't disturb people who want private and peaceful bowl-movements and bladder evacuations.

 

Obviously, policing bathroom can be done poorly. I do not support entrapment where the police initiate contact. Neither do I support officers lying or abusing people in any way.

[♦ nivek ♦]

Please read this lengthy article on Former Asshol, err, Senator Craig and "Unintended Consequences "

 

 

kFL

[pitchu]

I agree with Llewellyn on this, Oldjew. The other thread on Craig has many perspectives on your concerns, and I encourage you to read it if you haven't.

 

In the case of "vice" I agree with you that we shouldn't be in the business of policing people's morals, but I think the fact that "vice cops" are used in these instances is unfortunate, and it colors the fact that what they're doing enforces not a moral code, but the public's right to demand that public bathrooms not become bath houses.

[D Laurier]

Personaly I want to be alowed to piss in peace without ANYONE offering me a blowjob in a public bathroom.

Its a matter of hygene and basic dignity.

[Oldjew]

The point is that it is entrapment brought about by theist. I have never had anyone ever make a pass at me in a public rest room and had they I would have rejected it, but the point is these vice cops have nothing better to do than entrap people. Back in the seventies I marched with 1500 people against the Portland police department that were angered by the vice cops entrapping innocent people by a prostitution set up and for harassing prostitutes under the separation of church and state sponsored by the Unitarian Church, the First Church of Christ and the Family of God church. Only theist seem to be against prostitution as it is nobodies business what one does with their bodies as long as they are consenting adults.

 

If anyone approaches you for sex all you have to say is "NO!" Just that two letter word; "no."

 

I would never go to a public place for sex nor approach a prostitute, but I would not deny some one else of doing so because I am not a theist but an ex-theist and even when I was I could never understand why everyone was so down on sex when it is such a natural thing which of course was the main thing that brought me doubts of the existence of God since if God placed such feelings in us then why would he condemn us for them?

It didn't make sense which I concluded that the bible must have surely been made up by men and there could therefore not be a god. So the next thing I did was to set out to prove my theory by starting my own religion, writing my own holy book to see if people would believe it.

 

After more than thirty years had passed I was convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that the bible was bull and God was bull.

And they have regular cops that can cite you for crapping on the side walk or arresting you for rape, going after minors and other crimes, they do not need some sleaze ball vice cop entrapping people. I do not like Republicans but at the same time he has civil rights like anyone else regardless who he is, because when one person looses their civil rights we all loose ours. Civil rights is everyone's business.

 

I and a group of people back in the seventies used to take hidden cameras and take photos of vice cops unknown to them and post their photos on telephone poles, bulletin boards and around areas where there were prostitutes and gays to warn them of whom these sleaze balls were.

 

I used to be a member of the Pink Panthers which guarded gays from "straights" coming and going to gay bars in the Portland area.

Most of us had training in the martial arts and were not afraid to fight or beat the "holy shit" out of some gay basher. We also supported the prostitutes' civil rights to make a living and they supported us. I was a militant gay man and my wife was a member of the militant gay lesbian group "the Blue Panthers" who protected lesbians against lesbian bashers.

 

We had bumper stickers on our cars "We hate vice cops."

 

We gave the vice cops a run for their money and they kept moving them around and bringing in new ones but we kept the picture taking and they never figured out how we did it and could not catch us taking their picture or hanging their pictures up around town.

 

Even the newspapers wrote up a story of our movement which got three large churches to march and picket the police station in which we all joined in with several prostitutes joining the picketing. Even the mayor took notice and the opposing side in favor of the vice cops showed up with their bible slogans and it nearly turned into a riot in front of the police station. There was a Mexican stand off for awhile when neither side would back down but the cops pulled the vice officers in rather than turn the city into a riot zone.

[Oldjew]

What is happening, why has this post been posted twice?

 

The point is that it is entrapment brought about by theist. I have never had anyone ever make a pass at me in a public rest room and had they I would have rejected it, but the point is these vice cops have nothing better to do than entrap people. Back in the seventies I marched with 1500 people against the Portland police department that were angered by the vice cops entrapping innocent people by a prostitution set up and for harassing prostitutes under the separation of church and state sponsored by the Unitarian Church, the First Church of Christ and the Family of God church. Only theist seem to be against prostitution as it is nobodies business what one does with their bodies as long as they are consenting adults.

 

If anyone approaches you for sex all you have to say is "NO!" Just that two letter word; "no."

 

I would never go to a public place for sex nor approach a prostitute, but I would not deny some one else of doing so because I am not a theist but an ex-theist and even when I was I could never understand why everyone was so down on sex when it is such a natural thing which of course was the main thing that brought me doubts of the existence of God since if God placed such feelings in us then why would he condemn us for them?

It didn't make sense which I concluded that the bible must have surely been made up by men and there could therefore not be a god. So the next thing I did was to set out to prove my theory by starting my own religion, writing my own holy book to see if people would believe it.

 

After more than thirty years had passed I was convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that the bible was bull and God was bull.

And they have regular cops that can cite you for crapping on the side walk or arresting you for rape, going after minors and other crimes, they do not need some sleaze ball vice cop entrapping people. I do not like Republicans but at the same time he has civil rights like anyone else regardless who he is, because when one person looses their civil rights we all loose ours. Civil rights is everyone's business.

 

I and a group of people back in the seventies used to take hidden cameras and take photos of vice cops unknown to them and post their photos on telephone poles, bulletin boards and around areas where there were prostitutes and gays to warn them of whom these sleaze balls were.

 

I used to be a member of the Pink Panthers which guarded gays from "straights" coming and going to gay bars in the Portland area.

Most of us had training in the martial arts and were not afraid to fight or beat the "holy shit" out of some gay basher. We also supported the prostitutes' civil rights to make a living and they supported us. I was a militant gay man and my wife was a member of the militant gay lesbian group "the Blue Panthers" who protected lesbians against lesbian bashers.

 

We had bumper stickers on our cars "We hate vice cops."

 

We gave the vice cops a run for their money and they kept moving them around and bringing in new ones but we kept the picture taking and they never figured out how we did it and could not catch us taking their picture or hanging their pictures up around town.

 

Even the newspapers wrote up a story of our movement which got three large churches to march and picket the police station in which we all joined in with several prostitutes joining the picketing. Even the mayor took notice and the opposing side in favor of the vice cops showed up with their bible slogans and it nearly turned into a riot in front of the police station. There was a Mexican stand off for awhile when neither side would back down but the cops pulled the vice officers in rather than turn the city into a riot zone.

[Japedo]

 

 

[Grandpa Harley]

Personaly I want to be alowed to piss in peace without ANYONE offering me a blowjob in a public bathroom.

Its a matter of hygene and basic dignity.

 

or listening to someone's bollocks slapping someone's butt cheeks while I'm taking a shit. The gender(s) of the participants is immaterial. Vice cops use the same tactics irrespective of their target's gender orientation... TBH, I like the NL/continental Europe approach to vice... licence it, tax it and give the workers regular access to health checks... Of course that can't exist in the Americas since the medical system isn't geared for that sort of thing.

 

 

On the cottaging old hypocrite, your country is well rid of him...

[Lanakila]

It's the lying and hypocrisies that has gotten Craig into trouble. So what if he's gay, bi, or whatever, but he is a family values republican from Boise ID and is opposed to gay marriage, so getting cause soliciting sex with a man is hypocritical.

[Japedo]

Homosexuality should not be a crime any more than being a heterosexual as it is a natural thing amongst all species, but religion is abnormal and against nature as it corrupts nature.

 

He wasn't charged with being a homosexual. The airport is a public place where citizens should have some semblance of not being picked up on or walking in on sex in a public bathroom. Aren't their clubs and so forth for this type of activity? As a mother, I have second thoughts about sending my sons into the public restroom if this is the type of bullshit going on in men's rooms around the country. WTF, I must be pretty sheltered, I've never heard of such a thing until this incident. The ironic part of all of this is Craig was on the front lines of creating laws that he obviously in his private life objected to. He's a coward, and believes in passing laws to infringe on people is a good thing. It's about time some of the laws catch up with and become the downfall of the lawmakers themselves. For now I'll bask in the glory of the irony of the situation.

 

Don't get me wrong, if someone wants to pay or receive money to have sex, or even engage in random sex with strangers... far be it from me to make it a crime to stop them. I agree with you on this point. Laws do need to be changed in this regard and people should have the freedom to live their life as they wish. That doesn't mean to subject the rest of the world to their sexual escapades. My rights not to be exposed to it must also be respected. I'm not interested and would be pretty horrified if I was approached in such a manner. I just believe people lack respect and dignity in approaching and soliciting unknowing people sitting on the shitter. I would never dream that this would even be up for discussion in a civilized society.....? But As I say.. I think I'm pretty sheltered.

[Grandpa Harley]

"I would never dream that this would even be up for discussion in a civilized society."

 

We live in a Civilised society? The leader of the most powerful country in the world can speak about his relationship with a 1950 year dead jewish teacher and no one laughs... That's "civilisation"? I must have slept through that meeting... or maybe I was taking a dump when that was agreed...

[Japedo]

"I would never dream that this would even be up for discussion in a civilized society."

 

We live in a Civilised society? The leader of the most powerful country in the world can speak about his relationship with a 1950 year dead jewish teacher and no one laughs... That's "civilisation"? I must have slept through that meeting... or maybe I was taking a dump when that was agreed...

 

You're right, touché about society being 'civil', I concede that point. My train of thought was focused on the sex in the bathroom and public sex in general.

 

It still stands though, I don't think it's appropriate to engage in sexcapdes in a public restroom. Just as someone also said, I also don't think it's acceptable behavior to shit on the sidewalk.

[Grandpa Harley]

I agree with the rest... it was just the 'civilisation' bit... I like Gore Vidal's comment that our Empire (The West) has one problem that the Romans didn't have... no clear Barbarians at the gate... but we created them to prop up the decline of the Empire...

[HuaiDan]

If anyone approaches you for sex all you have to say is "NO!" Just that two letter word; "no."

 

 

Ha. Yeah right. I know the guys propositioning for sex in the public restrooms are abnormal freaks and do not represent the majority of gays, but until you've been straight and been propositioned by some dirtball faggot in a restroom you will never no how unnerving it is.

 

Just say no? I don't think so. I had to pull a knife on a guy once because he wouldn't take no for an answer and tried to jump the divider in the stall. Only time I've ever pulled a knife on anyone, and it was a dirtball faggot in a public restroom. They need to clean those places up, in more ways than one, and I wholeheartedly support the vice cops' efforts in doing so.

 

 

 

 

FYI I'm as far from a gay basher as you can get without actually being gay (though as you all well know one's sexual orientation is far from a determinant in whether one is a gay basher). But being propositioned in a restroom, and "no" wasn't the right answer, really freaked me out.

[Vigile]

Well Dan you must be one sweet peice of ass. In all my 41 years I've never been propositioned in a restroom.

[HuaiDan]

In my younger days I had an air of handsome innocence, but burned around the edges, like a fallen angel. I had actually unwittingly adopted an image that was irresistible to gays not surprisingly because I had many gay friends in my college days. How often I had to hold my ire when questioned "but how do you know you're not gay if you haven't tried it?", and held it with good graces. If I were a woman I'd probably be a lesbian, because men are such boorish stupid asshats when the wanna get laid.

[Grandpa Harley]

Well Dan you must be one sweet peice of ass. In all my 41 years I've never been propositioned in a restroom.

 

 

not as good as Whitley Schreiber's, since according to legend, someone came 43 million light years to stick their finger up his....

[pitchu]

If I were a woman I'd probably be a lesbian, because men are such boorish stupid asshats when the wanna get laid.

Men aren't the only sexual aggressors in public restrooms, and it's not a new phenomenon, either.

 

In 1955, when I was thirteen (but looked older) I was washing my hands in the sink of a public restroom when a woman sidled up to me, put her hands over mine under the stream of water and asked sweetly, "Want me to help you?"

 

Now, what help could I possibly have needed?!

 

I was way too young and innocent of all knowledge of homosexuality to understand what was happening, but I can tell you that my stomach did a flip-flop and about-face, obviously knowing more than my brain did about this circumstance. I said, "No, thank you," politely, as I'd been taught to behave with all adults, and hustled out of there. I told no one about it, because I felt ashamed and confused, though I didn't even know about what.

 

Public Bathrooms Are Not For This Kind Of Shit!

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

I fully agree that public sex is not desirable and shouldn't be legal. You should be able to go into a public restroom (or bus or train or park, etc.) and not have to watch or hear other people having sex.

 

I also agree that minors must not ever be propositioned by adults (in public or private), nor should anyone have to endure repeated unwelcome advances in public places (think construction workers making continued lewd requests of women who pass by in addition to the incident described by HuaiDan).

 

However, I don't think it should be illegal for an adult to proposition another adult in a public place for sex that is to occur in a private place ("Hey, you're cute. Would you like to go to my place for a quick shag?"). The requestor ideally would be polite and would wait for appropriate signals of mutual interest before popping the question, and must take "no" for an answer.

 

What concerns me is that vice squads can entrap people by giving well known signals of interest and then arrest citizens who respond to those signals, even though the intent was to go somewhere private for the sexual acts. It's at that point that I think a line was crossed.

[Oldjew]

What concerns me is that vice squads can entrap people by giving well known signals of interest and then arrest citizens who respond to those signals, even though the intent was to go somewhere private for the sexual acts. It's at that point that I think a line was crossed.

 

Somebody finally got my drift. It is the vice cops that entrap people I am most down on. And the poster that uses the word "faggot" and then claims he had "gay friends" in collage. How would you like it if some one called you "Whitey" or "Hunkie" or "Peckerwood?" Or perhaps "Fay" or "Cracker?"

I have straight friends, but I never refer them by slur names even when talking about another person.

 

I agree that anyone uses public restrooms for sex or goes after strangers is pretty messed up and I have as much regard for them as Bush or a Fundy, but my point entirely is the entrapment part.

 

Say you went to a public restroom to take a crap and some one sitting in the stall next to yours were to push their foot against yours and you tried to push it away with your own foot and they pushed back and this went on for a few seconds, then as you went to leave your stall the man in the next stall produces a badge and identifies himself as a vice officer and arrests you for indecent exposure or some other trumped up charge when you have done nothing but try to defend yourself.

 

Or a vice officer makes a pass at you and say although you were not gay you do nothing and he then arrests you as the perp when in fact he made the pass at you. That is entrapment. All of this is entrapment including having undercover cops dressed as prostitutes drive up to "Johns" and try to make a deal for sex then the cops bust you. That is actually called corruption used by gangster in shake downs, but is "legal" if the cops do it.

 

My point is the cops are the bad guys here. If you some one makes a pass at you in a restroom you need to call the cops on them right away but the cops should not hang out in public restrooms to entrap people. If they can not go out and catch people without entrapping them then perhaps they should look for another line of work.

[pitchu]

However, I don't think it should be illegal for an adult to proposition another adult in a public place for sex that is to occur in a private place ("Hey, you're cute. Would you like to go to my place for a quick shag?"). The requestor ideally would be polite and would wait for appropriate signals of mutual interest before popping the question, and must take "no" for an answer.

 

What concerns me is that vice squads can entrap people by giving well known signals of interest and then arrest citizens who respond to those signals, even though the intent was to go somewhere private for the sexual acts. It's at that point that I think a line was crossed.

TF, you know my views well enough to know that they're in line with yours. But in the case of Senator Craig and, I assume, others in that particular bathroom because complaints had already been made about sex acts occurring there, the intent was clearly not to go to a private place. In his taped interview with the cop, Craig pressed the issue that he was in a rush to catch his plane. As I brought up in the other Craig thread -- where was he going to ask this guy to go, in the middle of an airport, with a short time before his flight departed?

 

Nobody here supports entrapment, of course.

 

What is to be done to guarantee to the public that their public bathrooms are safe for their intended function? Video cameras?

[Vigile]

I think TFT made a good point though. How could Craig, or any other person be arrested and charged just based on the signal alone? A large assumption would need to be made that the signal entailed an intention to actually engage in sex in the public restroom. It could very well be a signal that the two would then go off and find a room together. It is a very dangerous assumption that severely burdens personal freedoms. Is sex in public so icky that we need to risk entrapping those with honest intentions of getting a room? That's quite an injustice, is it not?

 

This is actually one of the things I like about Russia and other countries where every single aspect of one's life is not attempted to be constrained by legislation and enforcement. They just accept that certain risks are involved in the world and live with them. This is why I feel it's more free here; if just a little bit more messy.

[HuaiDan]

Somebody finally got my drift. It is the vice cops that entrap people I am most down on. And the poster that uses the word "faggot" and then claims he had "gay friends" in collage. How would you like it if some one called you "Whitey" or "Hunkie" or "Peckerwood?" Or perhaps "Fay" or "Cracker?"

I have straight friends, but I never refer them by slur names even when talking about another person.

 

Meh. Damn dirty jews.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

C'mon man lighten up. You can call me whatever you want. This PC thing makes me a bit weary.

[Oldjew]

Hmm..., HuaiDan sound like Chink name, Hmmm..., lowly coolie not light in head tink him velly velly smalt in head know velly velly much about wold, but him maybe okay Chally Boy. Signed dirty old Jew.