You Don't Know What You're Talking About

[מה טבו]

I spoke to a man yesterday. Our conversation started a bit like:

 

Him: Yeah, there was this Jewish preacher on TV yesterday.

Me: (suspicious) Was he really Jewish, or was he one of those Messianics?

Him: He was really Jewish. He was a Messianic Jew.

Me: That's not Jewish.

Him: Oh yes it is.

Me: Oh no it's not.

Him: Anyway, he was saying that there's really no difference between Judaism and Christianity.

Me: That's a line of BS. Messianics want to sell you that, but it's not true. There are a lot of major differences.

Him: You need to do more research.

 

Umm... kay. I know this guy. He has never spoken to a rabbi. He has never set foot inside a synagogue. He doesn't know what the High Holidays are. I said Rosh Hashanah was next week, and he asked what that was. He could not tell you what the Torah or the Tanakh is. I'd bet money the guy couldn't name the first 5 books of the Bible without looking them up.

 

But he's a Christian, so he automatically knows more than I do.

 

Jews and B'nei Noach face this a lot - Christians telling us what we believe as if we don't know. Jews for Jesus even launched a campaign a few years ago called "Behold your God," because those poor Jews just didn't know who they were really praying to all this time.

 

I know from experience that Atheists get it as well - Christians are always telling you guys that you secretly believe in God, there are no Atheists in foxholes, etc. They're Christians, so they automatically know more than you. They know what you think and believe better than you do.

 

I'm not really sure if pagans, Buddhists, or members of other religions get this. I'd imagine you get some variant all across the board.

 

The arrogance in this assertion is profound. After all, our thoughts and beliefs are esoteric. They are our most private thing. What goes on inside our own minds is one of the only things that we really know about reality. When someone steps in and asserts that they know what you believe and you don't - they've just made themselves the authority over your entire reality. Cuz they're just that special. Our minds make up who we are - that some people think they can just hijack that cause Josh of Nazareth made them that smart is abhorrent.

[Robbobrob]

That is a big problem I have with Christianity. They really are not based in any way or form on Judaism, but they think they are. Don't even know why they bother to add on Jewish Scripture at all, since none of them follow any of its teachings.

 

The arrogance is sad. It means they will always see themselves as superior, the top of their sinner heap of dung.

[מה טבו]

The claim of a link to Judaism, while annoying, is something that I generally tolerate. After all, they worship a dead Jew.

 

The thing that really pisses me off, however, is the claim to know more about my beliefs than I do. They do the same thing to Atheists (think, "no atheists in foxholes" or "God is real and you know it" or "you're just angry at God"). That makes my blood boil.

 

The arrogance is in asserting authority over someone else's thoughts. It's one thing to say "my thoughts are right and yours are wrong". There's some arrogance there, but it pales in comparison to "my thoughts are right, and yours are the same as mine - you just don't know it."

 

Ex-fucking-scuse me?

[mwc]

Isn't this the same basic argument as given by Islam or Mormons? I doubt the xian would accept that they're basically the same as his religion.

 

As for the OP it is somewhat true...if you were holding this discussion about 2000 years ago (even then it wasn't too popular with the Jews).

 

mwc

[godlessgrrl]

What gets on my pecs even more is to have some douchebag Xian sit there and tell me that he and his deity know my mind and beliefs better than I do, and when I call him on his arrogance, he responds indignantly that I'm the arrogant one for refusing to believe in his god.

 

Maybe some people just need to control literally everything in order to feel secure. Including other people's minds.

[Thurisaz]

I'm not really sure if pagans, Buddhists, or members of other religions get this. I'd imagine you get some variant all across the board.

 

I have gotten the same crap, albeit rarely. That might change if I get more opportunities to confront morontheism over here in Germany.

 

The arrogance in this assertion is profound. After all, our thoughts and beliefs are esoteric. They are our most private thing. What goes on inside our own minds is one of the only things that we really know about reality. When someone steps in and asserts that they know what you believe and you don't - they've just made themselves the authority over your entire reality. Cuz they're just that special. Our minds make up who we are - that some people think they can just hijack that cause Josh of Nazareth made them that smart is abhorrent.

 

Abso-fucking-lutely true.

[The Sage Nabooru]

My grandmother is one of the most bull-headedly stubbornly ignorant people on earth. I mean, the kind of person who believes that Catholics regularly hold actual Black Luciferian Masses even after you've provided UNDENIABLE PROOF that they don't. A good analogy would be this:

 

Grandma: "The sky is purple."

Me: "No, look, Grandma. You can see the sky is blue." (Takes Grandma outside, points to the sky) "Look, the sky is actually blue. See?"

Grandma: "Hrrm, hmm, well....."

 

I used to work at the seediest, filthiest Dairy Queen this side of the Mississippi. It's within five minutes of my grandparents' place. Working there I know that the manager who made the ice cream cakes regularly dropped the ashes of whatever she was smoking into them. I repeatedly told my grandmother to never, ever buy any ice cream cakes (or anything, for that matter) from that place, no excuses, and I fully explained why. Yet every birthday we'd find a nice frozen treat from the exact restaurant on the table. My grandma simply does not listen to even the most sound of reason if she does not want to. The fact that she is about as intelligent as a brick (she once, in the relative prime soundness of mind, ate cat food thinking it was tuna because it came in the same type of cans) does not help. I love her, but I also recognize these qualities about her. I have to.

 

So some of the opposition for my leaving Christianity comes from her. First she asks me if I ever intend to return to church. Most of the time the questioning stops there, but occasionally she'll go on and ask me why. If I give her an answer, such as "I just don't believe that it's true", she'll do her sighing routine in which she speaks to me like she's a sage and I'm just a rediculously stupid kid who can't figure out what "truth" is. It's the most frustrating thing to go through, having this person who is about as enlightened and well-informed as Pat Robertson on painkillers telling me what a real adult with a real, functioning brain would think.

 

Now I do love my grandma, and perhaps that's how I manage to put up with her condescending trips into "Sweetie, you may think you know a lot about God, but......." (The equivalent of an Afghani Taliban member telling me, "You might think you know a lot about Americans and how they live, but......") Also I have to remember that ignorance, while some say it is bliss, is ultimately confining and darkness. Sure, they may be "joyful in the Lord", but I'm free.

[R. S. Martin]

My mother constantly asserted herself to be an authority on my thoughts and feelings., and constantly put me down--ridiculed and chastized me--for having the wrong kinds of feelings and thoughts about myself. This was confusing in the extreme because seldom if ever did it match my conscious thoughts and feelings regarding myself.

 

You're not so much different from the rest of us as you think you are!

You haven't even tried yet!

You're not as smart as you think you are!

 

Where do you get that idea? (sarcastic, mocking)

I wouldn't even think to ask such a question. (scornful, ridiculing)

 

Thus there is little the fundies can do to me that my mother hasn't been doing to me since birth. She's dead now and good riddance. But I can't stand the fundies and their arrogance. This includes my siblings. Respect for others is nonexistent. They assume squatter's rights to our hearts and brains if we have rejected their lawful god.

[The Sage Nabooru]

The arrogance in this assertion is profound. After all, our thoughts and beliefs are esoteric. They are our most private thing. What goes on inside our own minds is one of the only things that we really know about reality. When someone steps in and asserts that they know what you believe and you don't - they've just made themselves the authority over your entire reality. Cuz they're just that special. Our minds make up who we are - that some people think they can just hijack that cause Josh of Nazareth made them that smart is abhorrent.

 

One of the things which bugs me more than anything else is when someone else dictates to me what I feel, believe, or worship. As though they're a better expert on the subject of my own inner workings and opinions than I am.

 

As a Christian, I would sometimes hear the Muslim remark of, "You think you worship one God, but you really worship three gods." No, if I think I worship one God, then I do. The actual existence of that God, in these terms, is irrelevant as to whether or not I worship it. Since worship is so highly personal, I cannot be mistaken about what precise form of deity I worship. If I worshiped God in the form of a blue fluffy sheep, and believed it to be true and so worshiped sincerely, then I would worship a blue fluffy sheep. The existence of the blue fluffy sheep or the actual attributes of the blue fluffy sheep do not change the fact that I actually worship a blue fluffy sheep, regardless of whether or not such a worship is "correct".

[Kirangel]

The arrogance in this assertion is profound. After all, our thoughts and beliefs are esoteric. They are our most private thing. What goes on inside our own minds is one of the only things that we really know about reality. When someone steps in and asserts that they know what you believe and you don't - they've just made themselves the authority over your entire reality. Cuz they're just that special. Our minds make up who we are - that some people think they can just hijack that cause Josh of Nazareth made them that smart is abhorrent.

 

One of the things which bugs me more than anything else is when someone else dictates to me what I feel, believe, or worship. As though they're a better expert on the subject of my own inner workings and opinions than I am.

 

As a Christian, I would sometimes hear the Muslim remark of, "You think you worship one God, but you really worship three gods." No, if I think I worship one God, then I do. The actual existence of that God, in these terms, is irrelevant as to whether or not I worship it. Since worship is so highly personal, I cannot be mistaken about what precise form of deity I worship. If I worshiped God in the form of a blue fluffy sheep, and believed it to be true and so worshiped sincerely, then I would worship a blue fluffy sheep. The existence of the blue fluffy sheep or the actual attributes of the blue fluffy sheep do not change the fact that I actually worship a blue fluffy sheep, regardless of whether or not such a worship is "correct".

 

 

Mom: It's a holy day tomorrow you have to go to church.

Me: I'm not Catholic anymore.

Mom: Yes you are.

Me: umm...nope I don't believe in the Christian God.

Mom: What are you talking about you were baptized?

 

Life is a state of denial in my family. That's just not healthy.

 

And yes, it's very irritating when someone tries to tell you what you believe.

[L.B.]

"...Pat Robertson on painkillers..."

 

Ho-o-o-lee SHIT... if that isn't a fucking scary scenario, I don't know what is. I've always assumed he was on some heavy-ass shit to begin with, what with all the fucked-up shit he lays down in the name of his SkyGuy who speaks from inside his empty head. Let him get all hopped-up on some fucking goofballs like Vicodin...? Batten down the fucking hatches... shit's gonna get weirder than all hell.

 

Anyway, GREAT fucking imagery. Well done.

[מה טבו]

You're not so much different from the rest of us as you think you are!

You haven't even tried yet!

You're not as smart as you think you are!

 

Yah, I got all of those from my family too - especially the last one.

 

Interestingly, it's the "you haven't even tried" line that really makes my blood boil. I was raised Christian. I grew up in a Pentecostal church. I practiced Christianity from the time I was old enough to walk until I was 15 - and that isn't giving it a chance? Piss off!

 

They assume squatter's rights to our hearts and brains

 

That's the most perfect description I've encountered yet.

 

... And Sage, you have forever ruined ice cream cakes for me. *shudder*

 

None of my grandparents ever knew about my de-conversion. We didn't see each other that often, and it seemed better to me to just let them believe I was still a member of the flock. I imagine my parents appreciate that move - or at least my mother does. My father apparently went around telling the entire family that I was a witch. I don't know if he told my grandmother or not, but I've found the number of family members who take that seriously to be exactly 0.

 

I honestly feel a little ripped off having been born to the most raving fundamentalist in the family. I have some really cool aunts and uncles, cousins, and half-siblings on my father's side, but I never go to see them because doing so would involve being around my father.

[OldApostate]

Interestingly, it's the "you haven't even tried" line that really makes my blood boil. I was raised Christian. I grew up in a Pentecostal church. I practiced Christianity from the time I was old enough to walk until I was 15 - and that isn't giving it a chance? Piss off!

 

Oh, oh, oh, yeah... and the related "How is your daughter going to make her own choices if she isn't exposed to religion?"

 

Now, if someone can tell me which wee corner of this country that is, I would really appreciate it. Even the secular daycare she went to had Noah's Ark themed stuff. And let's not get started with Christmas season (starting in October), where Christian hymns masquerading as carols are played where ever you go. I even had another child once correct me in front of my daughter when I said something about "making you in my belly." "Oh you didn't make her. God did." I'm pretty damn sure that it wasn't God that got big as a cow and then went through three days of labor. I wish though.