Have The Ex-xtians Ever Compared The Scriptures?

[Guest fellthecross]

I have always noted that the verses of the Jewish scriptures have been changed at many places. An example:

 

Jewish Holy Scriptures Psalm 2:11-12 Serve the Lord with fear, And rejoice with trembling. Do homage in purity, lest He be angry, and ye perish in the way,When suddenly His wrath is kindled. Happy are all they that take refuge in Him.

 

Christians’ Old Testament Psalm 2:11-12 Serve the Lord with fear, And rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, And you perish in the way When His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.

 

Please note that Kiss the Son gets added on in the OT. So, you must remember not to let the Son get angry.

 

Did you guys really compare like this wehn you were Xtians?

 

FTC

[מה טבו]

When I was a Christian, I had never heard of the Tanakh. I had heard of the Torah, but only in passing. I never saw a Jewish translation - being exposed to a version other than the King James interpretation was almost heresy.

 

There are a lot of famous "edits" in Christian Bibles. "Like a lion" gets changed to "they pierced" and "the young woman" to "a virgin" in 2 of the most famous. You'll also notice that the New Testament several times cites scripture that doesn't exist. For example, the NT (I think in the book of Matthew, but not sure) claims a prophecy of HaMoshiach that "...he shall be called a Nazarene." No mention of the city of Nazareth or anyone from it exists anywhere in the Tanakh.

 

//added: I take the opportunity to note here a perfect example of why the Hebrew language has been kept alive. There's more to keeping the language alive than mere tribalism or messianic dreams of Israel. Keeping the Hebrew language alive and the Tanakh intact has kept a lot of Jews from falling for the deceptions of Christianity. You can't fool someone who knows the difference between "alma" and "betula" so easily. Keeping Hebrew alive has kept the Tanakh alive, and subsequently kept Judaism alive.

[pandora]

I did it briefly as a Christian in college in some of my classes, but not before then.

[perianwalsh]

that's why the jews say there's a major problem on this translation.thanks for pointing it out

[מה טבו]

that's why the jews say there's a major problem on this translation.thanks for pointing it out

 

If you ever really want to get a good understanding of the Tanakh, I recommend getting a Jewish translation. I have not seen a single good translation made by Christians. Even among the ones that correct major mistakes (like "the young woman" being changed to "a virgin"), a lot of context, lyricism, and linguistic structure is lost. While something is always going to be lost in the transition between languages, overall, the rabbis do a much better job of keeping the original text intact.

 

Even with a good translation of the Tanakh, though, Christians tend to miss out on the Jewish understanding of it. Christianity does not have the Talmud. It doesn't have the history - the tradition - the rabbis - or the Sanhedrin.

[mwc]

JPS 1917 edition (online/downloadable/audio)

JPS (searchable)

Babylonian Talmud

 

mwc

[Guest fellthecross]

When I was a Christian, I had never heard of the Tanakh. I had heard of the Torah, but only in passing. I never saw a Jewish translation - being exposed to a version other than the King James interpretation was almost heresy.

 

There are a lot of famous "edits" in Christian Bibles. "Like a lion" gets changed to "they pierced" and "the young woman" to "a virgin" in 2 of the most famous. You'll also notice that the New Testament several times cites scripture that doesn't exist. For example, the NT (I think in the book of Matthew, but not sure) claims a prophecy of HaMoshiach that "...he shall be called a Nazarene." No mention of the city of Nazareth or anyone from it exists anywhere in the Tanakh.

 

//added: I take the opportunity to note here a perfect example of why the Hebrew language has been kept alive. There's more to keeping the language alive than mere tribalism or messianic dreams of Israel. Keeping the Hebrew language alive and the Tanakh intact has kept a lot of Jews from falling for the deceptions of Christianity. You can't fool someone who knows the difference between "alma" and "betula" so easily. Keeping Hebrew alive has kept the Tanakh alive, and subsequently kept Judaism alive.

 

Excellent point, מה טב and I really appreciate that answer. (Bold emphasis is mine)

 

The Jews deserve that credit.

 

FTC

[Guest fellthecross]

I did it briefly as a Christian in college in some of my classes, but not before then.

 

Thanks. When and how did it hit you, pandora?

FTC

[Guest fellthecross]

that's why the jews say there's a major problem on this translation.thanks for pointing it out

 

Yes. And now we find the Christians telling the Jews what their Scriptures mean. For over 1,500 years before the arrival of Jesus, the Jews did not know that "Let us make man in our own image" showed more than one God.

 

FTC

[Guest fellthecross]

JPS 1917 edition (online/downloadable/audio)

JPS (searchable)

Babylonian Talmud

 

mwc

 

Thanks for the links mwc. Your signature can cause riots in the Christian world.

 

FTC

[pandora]

I did it briefly as a Christian in college in some of my classes, but not before then.

 

Thanks. When and how did it hit you, pandora?

FTC

 

It hit me during college thanks to a comparative religion major (along with Pharmacy). I was raised Catholic, then became a conservative evangelical, but not a Bible thumper or charismatic. I never was a Creationist and I always made enemies in my circle for my insistence that Creationism and biblical literalism were ridiculous. My complete story is my first post, although I'm sure I've developed and changed a bit since then. http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...amp;#entry15424

 

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask me.

[perianwalsh]

mwc-the most often i use is the mechome mamme site-but thanks for the other sites.

about the hebrew scriptures-i think i will read it afterwards-it has been for times i havent read it.

[mwc]

Thanks for the links mwc. Your signature can cause riots in the Christian world.

No problem.

 

The Jewish Encyclopedia is old but helpful and Judaism 101 is pretty good too to help get up to speed with the whole religion. No one source is perfect but there's not much you can do about that. It's surprising what xians don't know about it even though the xian bible has Jewish bible right up front. It's just assumed that xians are experts since it supposedly grew from Judaism (stole, raped, perhaps, but I seriously doubt grew).

 

Oh, and thanks on the siggy. I do what I can.

 

mwc

[Fweethawt]

//added: I take the opportunity to note here a perfect example of why the Hebrew language has been kept alive. There's more to keeping the language alive than mere tribalism or messianic dreams of Israel. Keeping the Hebrew language alive and the Tanakh intact has kept a lot of Jews from falling for the deceptions of Christianity. You can't fool someone who knows the difference between "alma" and "betula" so easily. Keeping Hebrew alive has kept the Tanakh alive, and subsequently kept Judaism alive.

Interesting. Although this comment does indeed sound like personal opinion, I definitely appreciate the insight that went into it that caused you to come to this conclusion.

 

I never looked at it that way before. Thanks.

[Guest fellthecross]

Thanks for the links mwc. Your signature can cause riots in the Christian world.

No problem.

 

The Jewish Encyclopedia is old but helpful and Judaism 101 is pretty good too to help get up to speed with the whole religion. No one source is perfect but there's not much you can do about that. It's surprising what xians don't know about it even though the xian bible has Jewish bible right up front. It's just assumed that xians are experts since it supposedly grew from Judaism (stole, raped, perhaps, but I seriously doubt grew).

 

Oh, and thanks on the siggy. I do what I can.

 

mwc

 

If you do that on christianity.com or CARM, you will be banned instantly. They would not be able to take it.

[מה טבו]

Interesting. Although this comment does indeed sound like personal opinion, I definitely appreciate the insight that went into it that caused you to come to this conclusion.

 

I never looked at it that way before. Thanks.

 

Yeah, there's definitely an element of personal opinion there. It has taken millions of people over centuries to keep the Hebrew language alive until the modern state of Israel was established. With that many people involved, it's virtually impossible to give one "official" reason

for it. Tribalism almost certainly played a part. Messianism likely did too - hell, we have Orthodox Jews who memorize the rules of animal sacrifice even though they're actually never going to use it, just in case the temple is rebuilt during their lifetimes.

 

But this is one of those things that goes way beyond a couple of doctrines. It involves millions of people across countries and continents forming a community that has survived Inquisitions, pogroms, wars, crusades, and genocide - as well as the attempts by both Christianity and Islam to lay claim to it. These people have been united by shared language and traditions, even for centuries with no homeland. That this community and this religion have survived so much and stayed intact for so long would not likely have been possible with a King James Torah.

[Robbobrob]

A King James Torah.....now that is funny. Instead of all the "eth"s and "thou"s it would be all "Oy"s and flem ..... LOL

[trashy]

I, personally, did as much research into word meanings and history as was possible back in the day. But I will admit to having little interest in that now as an Atheist.

[- AUB -]

This issue is crucial to understanding the relationship between xtianity and Judaism. Mah Tovu is correct, the NT’s misuse of the Jewish OT let alone the later mistranslations and corruptions form the main reason why so many Jews throughout history have resisted conversion, and fell foul of the inquisition. Although I regard Judaism as having no truth in it at all from a metaphysical standpoint, none the less they honestly read their OT, as their doctrines are based on it, rather than having to corrupt it for doctrines created from another source. As for the reference to Nazarene, Matthew took the phrase Nazerite, referring to Samson’s sect, demonstrating that he was not writing for a Jewish audience. Dr Robert M. Prices books best list the arguments for why the Gospels in particular are able to get away with such dishonesty, even switching translations in mid quote so as to get the combination of terms the writer wanted.

 

Doctrinal dishonesty is even more damning than scriptural, as the central Atonement doctrine of xtianity relies on the position that only shed blood washes away sin, even though the Jewish OT states 3 other ways, prayer, charity and repentance. This one fact undermines the whole premise of Pauline epistles and thusly xtianity. Jews have known this since the beginning, and the xtian leaders knew they knew, hence the demonisations, same reason Scientologists demonise psychologists, and creationists demonise scientists, a fraud needs to separate its victims from those with the specialised knowledge that disproves their claims.