The Mental "boobytraps" Of Christianity

[kellyb]

Hey guys...this is kinda a rant, I guess. I'm trying to form a coherent mental picture of exactly how Christianity keeps people locked in. I've identified a few of the aspects, and was wondering what you guys thought, and which ones I'm forgetting. Here's what I've got so far:

 

1) Faith

 

Right off the bat, right from the get-go, they make a virtue out of ignoring contradictory evidence.

 

NOT ignoring contradictory evidence is "bad"...nay, Satanic, when it goes too far, even. This also capitalizes on a psychological phenomenon that is universal and inherent in humans, where we all tend to be a bit addicted to our various biases.

 

http://www.psychsystems.net/lab/06_Westen_fmri.pdf

 

But Christianity 101 really, really milks this on a whole new level.

 

 

2) Church

 

Some people have gotten out of the habit of meeting for worship, but we must not do that. We should keep on encouraging each other, especially since you know that the day of the Lord's coming is getting closer.

~Hebrews 10:25

 

This is basically brainwashing. Mutual reinforcement. Funny how the deconverted don't need to hang out every week to "remain steadfast" in our deconversions, huh? I'm going to include under this all the other brainwashy aspects of Xianity...like how you're encouraged to listen to Christian music, and have Christian friends, and read Christian books, and do morning devotionals, etc. I know when you're in it, it doesn't seem like the purpose of this shit is to keep you thoroughly brainwashed, but not that I'm out, it seems like it served that purpose quite well.

 

3)Hell, demons and the Devil

 

This was, for me, one of the biggest hurdles. It was the final booby trap. "The unforgivable sin". "Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit". If you're a really "real Christian" and you deconvert, or start entertaining the idea of maybe Christianity not being so totally true...maybe you're under Satanic attack? Maybe there are demons whispering things in your ear? Are you running from sin? Are you doing the exact same thing Satan himself did at the fall and being PRIDEFUL??? You think you know better than GOD???

[insert visions of hellfire and brimstone here]

 

 

That's all I've got so far. I know I'm missing some....

[Bongo]

wow, i think i like this thread.

 

Good job! You have stated something which I've had trouble finding words for and organizing.

 

Thanks!

[BlueGiant]

Under the church heading, it is more than mutual brainwashing. There is a community that forms there, and there is the fear of ostricization when leaving. Worse, the subject may have no other friends outside of that network, making it that much harder to leave.

 

While there are some groups that try to compensate for this (freethinker meetings come to mind), that social trap is a nasty one.

[Mongo]

I highly highly recommend a stroll through http://skepdic.com/

 

If you pick a topic like cognative dissonance it will lead you to related topics like Confirmation Bias and Wishful Thinking.

 

This really opened my eyes to the mental traps that trip up believers. The site changed how I understand interpret human behaviour.

 

The site is not religion oriented but applies nonetheless.

 

Mongo

[Deva]

Xianity locks a person in by instilling damaging views of themselves and the world into their psychology at a young age, and at a very deep level, such as the following:

 

1. Perfectionism. The notion that God is perfect, perfection exists, and you will eventually be perfect in heaven when you are freed from "sin". Since "the world" is full of sin it is best not to look too closely at it or get too involved in it. There is a verse "Be ye perfect as your father in heaven is perfect." Don't know chapter & verse on that one, but it has to be one of the most damaging things ever written.

 

2. Low Self-Image. The total depravity of human beings. All human beings and all the natural world is contaminated by sin and full of sin. The reasoning process of all humans is therefore contaminated, so they cannot rely upon what they see in their daily experienceas being true. They must rely upon faith that the Bible is the true and only revelation and that what the priest or pastor says must be right, after all they are "in a relationship with God." This creates a situation where black becomes white and reason goes out the window. Willful ingorance is the result.

 

3. The World is Dangerous - this follows from 1 and 2. Best to stay in the safe haven of the fold. Just look at the fundies always talking about conspiracies and people out to get us.

 

4. Sex is Dangerous and Evil and Women are Inferior. Sex is only permitted within marriage. It is possible to marry an unbeliever but you will have a hard life. Best to stick to Christian believers for company. Interestingly, nothing is ever said about what to do if you never find a spouse. The attitude about women is just pervasive. They are to be taken care of as property. Too bad when reality hits and they suddenly find they have to make it in the "evil world."

 

Xianity has to be one of the most damaging things ever created by the mind of man. It creates the guilty, lowly and willfully ignorant. I despise it.

[kellyb]

Xianity locks a person in by instilling damaging views of themselves and the world into their psychology at a young age, and at a very deep level, such as the following:

 

1. Perfectionism. The notion that God is perfect, perfection exists, and you will eventually be perfect in heaven when you are freed from "sin". Since "the world" is full of sin it is best not to look too closely at it or get too involved in it. There is a verse "Be ye perfect as your father in heaven is perfect." Don't know chapter & verse on that one, but it has to be one of the most damaging things ever written.

 

2. Low Self-Image. The total depravity of human beings. All human beings and all the natural world is contaminated by sin and full of sin. The reasoning process of all humans is therefore contaminated, so they cannot rely upon what they see in their daily experienceas being true. They must rely upon faith that the Bible is the true and only revelation and that what the priest or pastor says must be right, after all they are "in a relationship with God." This creates a situation where black becomes white and reason goes out the window. Willful ingorance is the result.

 

3. The World is Dangerous - this follows from 1 and 2. Best to stay in the safe haven of the fold. Just look at the fundies always talking about conspiracies and people out to get us.

 

4. Sex is Dangerous and Evil and Women are Inferior. Sex is only permitted within marriage. It is possible to marry an unbeliever but you will have a hard life. Best to stick to Christian believers for company. Interestingly, nothing is ever said about what to do if you never find a spouse. The attitude about women is just pervasive. They are to be taken care of as property. Too bad when reality hits and they suddenly find they have to make it in the "evil world."

 

Xianity has to be one of the most damaging things ever created by the mind of man. It creates the guilty, lowly and willfully igorant. I despise it.

 

YES!

 

And #3 is part of how the scientific end never gets explored. I remember in fundie-school they said the Discovery Channel was 'in on' some vast satanic conspiracy. (not in those words, but that was the idea.) So because "science" has been corrupted by the devil, and "the scientists" were falling for satanic tricks...well, no wonder the glaringly obvious gets ignored within Xianity.

[bush country]

Get them when they are young

Based upon the idea of "train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it" from proverbs. A church here in town is spending fourteen million dollars to build a children's building to brainwash the little buggers as early as possible. Another form of the mutual reinforcement mentioned in #2 in the OP.

[R. S. Martin]

Xianity locks a person in by instilling damaging views of themselves and the world into their psychology at a young age, and at a very deep level, such as the following:

 

1. Perfectionism. The notion that God is perfect, perfection exists, and you will eventually be perfect in heaven when you are freed from "sin". Since "the world" is full of sin it is best not to look too closely at it or get too involved in it. There is a verse "Be ye perfect as your father in heaven is perfect." Don't know chapter & verse on that one, but it has to be one of the most damaging things ever written.

 

2. Low Self-Image. The total depravity of human beings. All human beings and all the natural world is contaminated by sin and full of sin. The reasoning process of all humans is therefore contaminated, so they cannot rely upon what they see in their daily experienceas being true. They must rely upon faith that the Bible is the true and only revelation and that what the priest or pastor says must be right, after all they are "in a relationship with God." This creates a situation where black becomes white and reason goes out the window. Willful ingorance is the result.

 

I guess this is why I "fell away"--I was blissfully ignorant of some of this stuff. 1. total depravity of human beings. I had a break-down in my mid-twenties. I hadn't the slightest idea of how the medical system worked. All I knew was to tough things out. My mother was more worried about looking good than getting me to a doctor. I found self-help books that helped me understand myself and my problems--self-analysis is what I did. And I didn't stop with myself. I learned a LOT about human nature. For every single human problem there was a psychological ailment. What I learned from that was that when all psychological problems were healed the human being was inherently good deep down if only love could connect with that goodness. I tried that hypothesis in real life and it worked. I was a Christian and did not have to deconvert to believe it, either. No matter what any church or bible says, humans are inherently good. That's just the way things are. 2. reasoning process is contaminated. I never heard that one. But there's lots and lots of philosophical and religious statements to that effect. Things are not what they seem--philosophy. We can't think a single good thought of ourselves--New Testament. Phil. 4 counter-balances that one very nicely and it is where I derived much consolation and guidance in some of my deepest and most desperate mental anguish. That chapter is a Norman Vincent Peale positive thinking chapter if there is one and that is what I needed. V. 8 was esp. helpful. That writer definitely believed humans are capable of thinking good thoughts. 3. cannot rely upon what they see in their daily experienceas being true. I didn't know this, either. This is where the church made it's most blatant mistake. It made these sweeping statements about reality. (Sweeping statements are an open invitation to challenges. And you can bet your bottom dollar I challenged them--much to the chagrin to everyone within earshot.) Statements about reality can be proven or disproven so easily. And I made it my business to do exactly that. THEY SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER! They should have checked things out before making those statements.

 

So the way they kept me in control was by telling me I just didn't understand things. They refused to answer my questions. They promised that when I "got older" I would understand. Okay, no one can stop the clock. Decades passed. Dutifully, I got older. One day I hit forty. I realized that forty was "older" by most standards, considering that my questions started when I was a fairly young child. Perhaps the last time I got the "when you are older" answer was in my teens. So "forty" seemed like appropriately mature. And I certainly did not understand one whit better. I did have a whole lot more life experience in which to prove that god had an extremely poor track record in coming through for me. And I had also discovered that humans were inherently good. I also concluded that my intellectual processes were reliable; after giving an item much deep analytical thought, things normally turned out the way I predicted.

 

Ten years later when I hit fifty I was saying with confidence that the promise that I would eventually understand had not come true. What was the response? Maybe we don't have to understand.

 

Now THAT was NOT OKAY, to put it mildly. That is the kind of thing that makes me want to smash everything in sight and then some. I did not put my life on hold for nothing. I did not experiment with my very life just to shrug off the evidence when it came in.

 

In one thing I was extremely lucky--no one wanted to marry me. That means I was free and at liberty--childless and husbandless--at the young age of forty and fifty to live life tailor-made for ME. I was so desperately needy and insecure in my early twenties I would have married any bugger in the church who condescended to marry me. Well, except one man. But he didn't even try until I was in my thirties and suffering from insomnia--but no longer so needy and insecure and definitely no longer thinking about boyfriends. He called late one night just as I was drifting off to sleep and that really got me mad. It took me years to figure out what he really wanted.

 

So the boobytrap for me was the one "you'll understand when you get older." There were dozens of others that I can't think of right now. I had the good fortune of having a female professor from an Orthodox Jewish background so she saw a lot of parallels between my horse and buggy Mennonite upbringing and her own upbringing. She pointed out the "closed system" thinking--the kind of thinking that I call "stop-gap thinking." "You just didn't pray hard enough" would be one such example. Thus, if the cancer victim gets healed, it was a miracle; if the person died, the family didn't pray hard enough/didn't have enough faith. A no-win situation no matter what you do--it will keep you securely in the religious system. The way to test it is over much time the way I did. And when you do find it to be false, be prepared for serious hostility from those who need for it to be true.

[Mongo]

Xianity locks a person in by instilling damaging views of themselves and the world into their psychology at a young age, and at a very deep level, such as the following:

 

1. Perfectionism. The notion that God is perfect, perfection exists, and you will eventually be perfect in heaven when you are freed from "sin". Since "the world" is full of sin it is best not to look too closely at it or get too involved in it. There is a verse "Be ye perfect as your father in heaven is perfect." Don't know chapter & verse on that one, but it has to be one of the most damaging things ever written.

 

Edit...

 

Xianity has to be one of the most damaging things ever created by the mind of man. It creates the guilty, lowly and willfully ignorant. I despise it.

 

One phase that I see many/most people go through in deconversion is the migration from good/evil thinking to a moral relativity mindset.

 

In my opinion, it is one of the last things to abandon. I think that is because good/evil thinking is a fundamental meme or mind viruses that infests the fundamentalist mind. Once you plant that seed, you have a powerful hook.

 

It supports concepts that are all or nothing which is utter bullshit.

 

I cannot imagine a manipulative cult leader and manipulator that does not draw off good/evil and all/nothing thinking.

 

Perhaps this is the one fundamental meme from which all other lies mutate.

 

Mongo

[Aurelia]

So the boobytrap for me was the one "you'll understand when you get older."

Or, for those ultra difficult to answer questions (typically the ones asked at the start of de-conversion) there's the classic "Well, who can understand the mind of god? I'm sure he'll have time to answer all your questions in heaven."

 

Uhhhm, pardon me but isn't that the same thing as saying "Well, just shut up and believe until you're dead"?

 

So much for thoughtful inquiry.

[Legion]

Well, maybe it was because I was indoctrinated so early in my life, but I am having a difficult time abandoning the concept of good and evil. I know that it’s entirely subjective. I doubt that anything can be said to be objectively good or evil. Yet I still retain the concept.

 

Moral relativism? Not for me personally. I still look upon my own actions and judge them. Some things that I do I consider to be good. Other things that I do are less than good. So I try not to judge others, but it is a very difficult thing to do. I do judge myself. And I also ask, if I were in another person’s circumstances would I have done the same thing?

 

We do live in a causal universe. Every decision has consequences. I think some of those consequences are preferred over others. Again, I know it’s subjective. These are my values I’m talking about. But surely no one would suggest that I am to abandon my values. To do so would be to abandon my judgment.

[Mongo]

Well, maybe it was because I was indoctrinated so early in my life, but I am having a difficult time abandoning the concept of good and evil. I know that it’s entirely subjective. I doubt that anything can be said to be objectively good or evil. Yet I still retain the concept.

 

Moral relativism? Not for me personally. I still look upon my own actions and judge them. Some things that I do I consider to be good. Other things that I do are less than good. So I try not to judge others, but it is a very difficult thing to do. I do judge myself. And I also ask, if I were in another person’s circumstances would I have done the same thing?

 

We do live in a causal universe. Every decision has consequences. I think some of those consequences are preferred over others. Again, I know it’s subjective. These are my values I’m talking about. But surely no one would suggest that I am to abandon my values. To do so would be to abandon my judgment.

 

Legion,

 

Knowing your great posts, I have to believe we are actually pretty close to agreement.

 

I'll take blame for not clearly deleneating the alternative to black/white, good/evil, all/nothing thinking.

 

So rather than say the opposite is moral relativism, lets say that whatever it is, there is often/usually migration by the deconvert from the on/off thinking of fundies towards a more complicated view that takes in account that the two sided coin of good and bad cannot be separated - that is, you can't purge evil and not purge good at the same time and vice versa.

 

I certainly would not paint myself as being without morals but I consciously admit that they are far more subjective than fundy morals and more grey. (something about that statement bothers me cause fundys are rather subjective in a black/white way)

 

I find myself no longer able to paint anything as pure "truth".

 

Mongo

[Legion]

Hey there Mongo. I hope you are well. It's nice to finally speak with you.

 

I find myself no longer able to paint anything as pure "truth".

 

I think I understand. My fundy Dad uses the word "truth" often. I have tried to purge myself of the word. Instead I try to use the word "understanding." Truth is a fighting word in my opinion. It's a word of stone and swords. Understanding is a word of process and participation.

 

I think you're right, we are probably close to being in agreement.

[Deva]

One phase that I see many/most people go through in deconversion is the migration from good/evil thinking to a moral relativity mindset.

 

In my opinion, it is one of the last things to abandon. I think that is because good/evil thinking is a fundamental meme or mind viruses that infests the fundamentalist mind. Once you plant that seed, you have a powerful hook.

 

edit...

 

I cannot imagine a manipulative cult leader and manipulator that does not draw off good/evil and all/nothing thinking.

 

Perhaps this is the one fundamental meme from which all other lies mutate.

 

Mongo

 

Yes Mongo, I see this perfect/imperfect, black/white, good/evil, I have THE truth (a standard of perfection), you don't have it, mindset as the number one psychological issue. That is why I placed it as no. 1. I called it Perfection but it covers a lot of territory.

 

Perhaps it really is the fundamental meme.

[Thurisaz]

1) Faith

 

Right off the bat, right from the get-go, they make a virtue out of ignoring contradictory evidence.

 

Not to forget that, just in case the evidence can't be wholly ignored, the morontheist cults offer an explanation for it that can't be disproven... "you're blinded by saaataaan! Those who make the claims are blinded by saaataaan! Everyone around you who disagrees is blinded by saaataaan!" et cetera...

[Mongo]

1) Faith

 

Right off the bat, right from the get-go, they make a virtue out of ignoring contradictory evidence.

 

Not to forget that, just in case the evidence can't be wholly ignored, the morontheist cults offer an explanation for it that can't be disproven... "you're blinded by saaataaan! Those who make the claims are blinded by saaataaan! Everyone around you who disagrees is blinded by saaataaan!" et cetera...

 

 

Good call!

 

I find the idea that one must look to and be guided by a higher power a mind trap too. This however is supported by the idea that one cannot guide themselves... and that brings us to the we're depraved meme... which brings us back to evil.

 

I'm seeing fundamentalism as being built on a handful of interlocking ideas?

 

However... many of the ideas don't always fit that well so the construct is wobbly. What is needed is a glue like substance to fill gaps where ideas don't properly join.

 

The glue? Faith.

 

So to redefine Hebrews 11:1: Faith is the adhesive of things not logical, the strength of ideas not strong.

 

Mongo

[R. S. Martin]

So to redefine Hebrews 11:1: Faith is the adhesive of things not logical, the strength of ideas not strong.

 

Mongo

 

KJV: Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Mongo: Faith is the adhesive of things not logical, the strength of ideas not strong.

 

Love it! You managed to keep the rhythm--the poetic structure--but insert your own meaning. You've got talent with words and insight with metaphor. Way to go! The Christies can't top that. No wonder they hate us!

[Onyx]

Here's mine.

 

Swearing: It's strange that when some Christians go to church- they are so pious that if somebody say "Gosh..." they would make a fuss about it but when they are out of it, they would swear like a sailor on acid that would put Eric Cartman to shame.

 

Sex: Not allowed for their children but when they are out, they usually masturbate like crazy I daresay, fantasies so filthy and deviant come up as a result of their demented repression. Particularly that pretty crystal meth hooker with a heart of dildo. Haggard I'm watching you.

 

Questions: Not allowed for everybody but when Christians are alone in a dark room on a frightening night, all boogey questions about God comes into their head.

 

Scripture: The Holy Writ, The Be and All, truth! But there's a variety of contradictions, falsehoods, strange stories, what would Jesus do? Cherry pick of course- nothing like sweet selective bias.

 

Hypocriticism: For the good pastor, it's the new eroticism. For the pious, it's everyday. For normal people, it's infuriating.

 

The Flood and Hell: These two go hand in hand. God hates these naughty Antediviluvians, they wouldn't stop getting the gift of the love that dares not speak its name. Oh and these pesky little cute dogs and babies. So he fucking drown these motherfuckers in his flood (semen as a result of a fantasy so vile even a necrophile paedophile would be horrified to know) Christians while telling us that we should not be like the wicked little Pre Flood people, The Christians secretly wishes the world to end so their death appetites would be satiated. Oh and they will be with the Lord.

 

Then God had a better invention after seeing forward to the future to read Marquis De Sade's 120 Days of Sodom. "Hmmmm, the torture angle would do well to keep me happy. Why not make it forever?" Wanna know? Hell of course. This baby will torment everybody that ever lived and loved. Hawhawhaw! With fire! Yes yes! Wicked isn't it. It'd keep the freakin' idiots in line, never mind their sanity and morality while keeping God's huge sadistic erection going.

 

Fervent belief that Bible is a science book: Creationism, theist evolutionism, world is God's mind, take your intellectual poison. Have fun, they'll be outdated the minute you talk about it.

 

Ebil Atheistuses: These frightening Minions is out to kill Christians, they'd eat their babies if they see any, they have sex with the same gender before sacrificing these unlucky, unlucky men to the Darkest Lord that ever lived, Satan. Voldemort is evil but he's a fucking amateur.

These infernal Atheists can be found tending to their flowers, holding hands with their wives, painting and posting get well cards.

 

Prayers: Talking to a solid wall is edifying. So is looking at these sinful naked women. Keep praying cos the naked women'll be on your mind forever!

 

Temptation: All good Christians should not give in to the following: Shellfish, crossed fabrics, sex, nudity, true love, homosexuality, masturbation, uncut penises, self esteem, screaming out while being raped, preaching women, long hair for men, bald hair for women, dancing and shit like that. Anything to please Jesus and his kinkiness I guess.

 

Feminism/Equality/Black rights/etc: Fucking avoid these fucking sinful movements! They're corrosive to the truth of God that the Christian must cherish.

 

Guilt: Sorry for typing this! Sorry Lord! Sorry I must follow you better next time. *Hiccups*

 

Freedom: The Good Christian: "Yeah right- where's my McDonalds, banning the Gay Marriage Act and my God programme condemning these fucking faggots?" Normal Sane Person: "Freedom is important, it improves your life. Not to mention important equalities that we've yet to get because of these cheeseheads at Senate!"

 

Holy Unforgivable Sin: "A guy's raping my dog!" "Ah not that kind of sin." "I'll murder an nigger!" "Not that one." "Holy Spirit is a demon and may he shit forever for ruining my life for fucking forty five years." "OH NO! You're a HEATHEN! Begone!"

"What about the dog rapist and the racist murderer to be?" "Never mind, dog'll be okay and I hope the black guy will be ok- I have to go murder that blaspheming heathen."

 

Ignoring evidence: When a Christian see a truth that is contrary to his beholden truth, he'd whistle away it.

 

That's it.

[garrisonjj]

Here's mine.

 

Swearing: It's strange that when some Christians go to church-

 

jesushchrist! This is an excellent post! Yep, pray to the holy spirit that my mind might be opened. Prayer worked! I am a free atheist today! Allefuckinluia!