School Board Meeting Prayer

[Light_of_Reason]

Yesterday I attended a local school board meeting. First thing on the agenda was the prayer. I had hoped for something non-sectarian.

 

Instead, the prayer included, "For those who don't know You, I pray You prick their hearts." It got little better later on as during a debate, one of the board members talked about doing the "Christian thing."

 

That is about as evangelical a message as possible. What I'm wondering is how a school board can open with such a blatantly evangelical Christian prayer? Is there someone I should contact about this sort of activity?

 

It just infuriates me to no end, and I am amazed fewer people are upset about this practice. These people are supposed to represent the entire parish, and I know we have some Muslims, Hindi, and atheists in this area. To me, this sort of activity is a government endorsement of evangelical Christianity, and it told me in no uncertain terms that I am not considered a part of this community.

 

Should I be thinking of contacting AU or a local ACLU chapter?

[Japedo]

Should I be thinking of contacting AU or a local ACLU chapter?

 

 

You can contact either one of your local chapters of AU or ACLU. Be prepared for hell fire and brimstone if you bring public attention to it though. I have often thought about doing the same when it comes to my kids school. Christians have their hands in ever facet of our lives, I'm not willing to put my kids or family thru the public shunning we'll most likely receive for the 'perceived attack of daring to challenge their government endorsed religion. You can let your local chapters know what went on, maybe they will sit in for the next one and it can gain some press and attention that way?

 

With the fundys at the helm of schools and the country in general though, I have little hope for change to be honest, but there's always a chance.. ?

[Light_of_Reason]

Well, the meetings are recorded, so there is a record of it somewhere, which could prove helpful later on.

 

I'll have to see if I can find the contact information for one or both of those groups.

[Purple]

Yesterday I attended a local school board meeting. First thing on the agenda was the prayer. I had hoped for something non-sectarian.

 

Instead, the prayer included, "For those who don't know You, I pray You prick their hearts." It got little better later on as during a debate, one of the board members talked about doing the "Christian thing."

 

That is about as evangelical a message as possible. What I'm wondering is how a school board can open with such a blatantly evangelical Christian prayer? Is there someone I should contact about this sort of activity?

 

It just infuriates me to no end, and I am amazed fewer people are upset about this practice. These people are supposed to represent the entire parish, and I know we have some Muslims, Hindi, and atheists in this area. To me, this sort of activity is a government endorsement of evangelical Christianity, and it told me in no uncertain terms that I am not considered a part of this community.

 

Should I be thinking of contacting AU or a local ACLU chapter?

 

 

Was this for the entire district or just one school? If just one school can you go over their heads and speak to another administrator? I might do that, if I could, before contacting the ACLU or AU.

[Ouroboros]

Maybe you should demand that next time the board pray to Allah, or Shiva, or have some wicca prayer. All in the spirit of the bill of rights. Religious freedom and all. Since you don't have any of these beliefs, they are an objective voice for the right and fairness for all religious people.

 

I think you should contact ACLU too, but if you try to do this first, then you'll get a case for religious intolerance and persecution of other beliefs.

[SWIM]

I second the motion to contant the ACLU. That's what they exist for, to protect your rights, and it's not just you they protect. They want *all* religions to be free from oppression, they also get involved in racial discrimination.

[Light_of_Reason]

This was for the entire county. And I couldn't believe my ears when I first heard it. I mean, this wasn't just a sectarian prayer. The guy was actually asking for the hearts of non-Christians to be pricked so that they could be saved. Totally uncalled for behavior and completely illegal.

 

I can find the state ACLU number, so I'll likely try to give them a call later to see if a formal complaint is in order. However, as I do not have children in the schools, I don't know if I will have sufficient legal standing here. But at least the ACLU will know of this behavior, and that is something.

 

By the way, the state ACLU is currently fighting another school board that actually voted to refuse to change their sectarian prayers. I can't wait until the courts tear into them.

[quicksand]

If I recall correctly, the ruling against school prayer was against faculty leading prayer in schools because they are paid by taxes and since there is a division agianst church and state this was ruled as an establishment of religion (namely Christianity) in the schools and therefore unconstitutional as it discriminated one religion against the other. (Which has absolutely nothing to do with atheism.) Now with case of a school board member, who are largely elected (at least here they are) this could be a distinction that may make a difference. I do not know. If this is the case and they are not paid by the State, then that school board member may be within his rights to lead a prayer, even if it is secterian. However, if the school board meetings are held at a tax-payer funded venue, then that might be a degree that makes a difference.

 

I really don't know. I know from observing these cases and what I've read that the arguments always come down to minutiae. For instance, your observation that you don't have a child in the school could be a factor against you - as it did with Nedow. The Supreme Court ruled that he didn't have a case because he wasn't legal guardian of his child, only after affirming amoungst themselves that the word "God" did mean something specifically religious and the reference to God was not a historical reference in the Pledge of Allegiance. I believe that it was Thomas and the late Renquist which argued over those semantics. However, you are a tax payer which funds that venue, so that might give you a leg to stand on. I'm groping in the dark here.

 

Anyway, keep us posted and Pandora is correct. The Christians there will cry persecution. But it's important to remember that the Christians want nothing but the right to beat everyone over the head with their religion and not freedom to practice (or not to practice) what your conscience demands.

[white_raven23]

I can find the state ACLU number, so I'll likely try to give them a call later to see if a formal complaint is in order. However, as I do not have children in the schools, I don't know if I will have sufficient legal standing here. But at least the ACLU will know of this behavior, and that is something.

 

 

Actually, not having kids of your own subject to the system is in your favor in this case. They can't persecute your kids and engage in societal pressure through them to get you to shut up and leave their little christian fiefdom alone.

[Fweethawt]

....... and leave their little christian fiefdom alone.

Cool word.

 

I had to look it up though.

[Mongo]

I can find the state ACLU number, so I'll likely try to give them a call later to see if a formal complaint is in order. However, as I do not have children in the schools, I don't know if I will have sufficient legal standing here. But at least the ACLU will know of this behavior, and that is something.

 

However... did you have a legitemate business to conduct there?

 

Needing to have a kid there is silly. Children were not the victims - **you** were!

 

Even coming as an observer in my opinion is a legitemate business of ensuring democracy is working.

 

Legally... I wouldn't know.

 

Mongo

[Light_of_Reason]

Unfortunately, you are correct. The problem with the Christian mindset, is that by its very nature is precludes anyone else from being right or even righteous. Therefore, many of them see no problem with trodding on the rights of others that they find anti christian. Their belief system demands that they stand up for Jesus at all costs and oppose the evil world. Which means that non-christians are nothing but agents of satan trying to destroy their children's spirituality and corrupt them to hell. So they figure the ends justify the means, it is OK to wrest our rights away because they are trying to save our souls.

 

Actually, this is what I am afraid of. I can make a deal of this and contact the ACLU, but the Christians here will take that as persecution, and if they discover who brought this case to light, the repercussions would be horrendous. Where I live, they don't take kindly to that kind of stuff. This is in the area where the Jena 6 case recently took place. I'm literally a mere hours from there, so I would not feel to secure in the safety of my person and family were I to take up this fight. The people around here kill for less.

 

However... did you have a legitemate business to conduct there?

 

Actually, yes. My wife was required to attend a school board meeting for one of her classes, and having just one car between us and next to no time between my getting off work and the beginning of the meeting, I was kind of forced into being there.

 

 

I think this case has too many nuances to it to bring to light just now. As I said, a very similar case to this one is currently playing out in the federal courts for this district. It may serve me better to see how that case plays out, see if it makes a difference in the conduct of this particular school board, then bring the case to the ACLU's attention if necessary. Patience can work in my favor here.

[Ro-bear]

I once had to attend a school board meeting for a class. When they launched into prayer mode, I pulled out my Palm Pilot and started a game of Frogger. At full volume.

 

The prayer warriors weren't very hoppy about that.

[Ouroboros]

I once had to attend a school board meeting for a class. When they launched into prayer mode, I pulled out my Palm Pilot and started a game of Frogger. At full volume.

 

The prayer warriors weren't very hoppy about that.

You were hopping they would croak?

[Ro-bear]

You were hopping they would croak?

 

I'm just lucky they didn't tell me to hit the road; they were that cross. Heh-heh.

[SilentLoner]

I once had to attend a school board meeting for a class. When they launched into prayer mode, I pulled out my Palm Pilot and started a game of Frogger. At full volume.

 

The prayer warriors weren't very hoppy about that.

 

good one

[Purple]

You were hopping they would croak?

 

I'm just lucky they didn't tell me to hit the road; they were that cross. Heh-heh.

 

 

Were they hopping mad???

 

sorry sorry couldn't resist.

[Fweethawt]

I once had to attend a school board meeting for a class. When they launched into prayer mode, I pulled out my Palm Pilot and started a game of Frogger. At full volume.

 

The prayer warriors weren't very hoppy about that.

good one

Oh god... Don't tell him that.

 

He doesn't know when to stop.

 

 

 

[R. S. Martin]

I once had to attend a school board meeting for a class. When they launched into prayer mode, I pulled out my Palm Pilot and started a game of Frogger. At full volume.

 

The prayer warriors weren't very hoppy about that.

 

Ro-Bear, is that you in your avatar? If so, you look so kind and gentle--and that fits all your posts--I never imagined you had it in you to do that kind of thing. Maybe I'm still too close to Christianity but that was...SACRILEGE. It was out and out WAR! Not that I think it was wrong--I just didn't know you had it in you!

[disEnchanted]

Actually, this is what I am afraid of. I can make a deal of this and contact the ACLU, but the Christians here will take that as persecution, and if they discover who brought this case to light, the repercussions would be horrendous. Where I live, they don't take kindly to that kind of stuff. This is in the area where the Jena 6 case recently took place. I'm literally a mere hours from there, so I would not feel to secure in the safety of my person and family were I to take up this fight. The people around here kill for less.

 

Some of my family lives in your area, where the Jena 6 case is STILL going on. I live just a few hours away. Bringing in the ACLU would definitely "out" you and probably demonize you. Look at how the media has portrayed Jena as an evil town. Look at how the media presents only partial truths and partial information.

 

I know that I don't dare "out" myself as an atheist in my community. I teach in a small private school. We are not a "christian" school (supposedly). The billboards around town advertising our school state that we are a "non-discriminatory school." Ha! Ha! Ha! Every single day I have to listen to the lard's prayer being broadcast over the intercom system. This year we aren't having a Halloween Carnival, we have to have a "Fall Festival" because the fundies have finally gotten their way.

 

I DID complain to the administration about a football sponsor sign that hangs behind the children's playground. It says in 3 foot RED letters, "Read the Bible. It'll scare the HELL out of you." I didn't think that was an appropriate sign to hang near the children's playground. Is "hell" a word we want our little kids reading and saying everyday? Nothing was done about it. I was told by a christian teacher that it's not really a "cuss word" when it's used that way.

 

In science class last week, the students in my daughter's class refused to read aloud passages about evolution. The teacher told them that even if they didn't believe it they had to read it because it was in the book. My daughter stated that she was interested in learning more because she believed in evolution. Later, 3 girls in her class cornered her and asked her why she didn't believe in gawd. She was very uncomfortable and just told them that she didn't say that.

 

It's awful living in this VERY religious area. We don't dare admit to our atheism because we'd be shunned and talked about just like the few homosexuals and people with mixed racial marriages are. These people here are obsessed with their self-rightousness. I am not brave enough to speak out about the injustices to non-christians. I wish you luck if you attempt to do it.

[Ro-bear]

I once had to attend a school board meeting for a class. When they launched into prayer mode, I pulled out my Palm Pilot and started a game of Frogger. At full volume.

 

The prayer warriors weren't very hoppy about that.

 

Ro-Bear, is that you in your avatar? If so, you look so kind and gentle--and that fits all your posts--I never imagined you had it in you to do that kind of thing. Maybe I'm still too close to Christianity but that was...SACRILEGE. It was out and out WAR! Not that I think it was wrong--I just didn't know you had it in you!

 

If the picture were better you would see the mischievousness behind the kindliness.

[R. S. Martin]

I once had to attend a school board meeting for a class. When they launched into prayer mode, I pulled out my Palm Pilot and started a game of Frogger. At full volume.

 

The prayer warriors weren't very hoppy about that.

 

Ro-Bear, is that you in your avatar? If so, you look so kind and gentle--and that fits all your posts--I never imagined you had it in you to do that kind of thing. Maybe I'm still too close to Christianity but that was...SACRILEGE. It was out and out WAR! Not that I think it was wrong--I just didn't know you had it in you!

 

If the picture were better you would see the mischievousness behind the kindliness.

 

Actually, I can see it now.

[Light_of_Reason]

I hear you disEnchanted. Just look at all the hullaballoo going on in Slidell over a picture hung in a courthouse. And they are the ones with a schoolboard going to trial over the same complaint as mine.

 

So, while I am tempted to make a case of this, I do value continued financial security and physical safety. I'm hoping the case in Slidell goes well, forcing other schoolboards to reconsider their stances on this.

 

That way change can occur without costing me everything.

[disEnchanted]

I hear you disEnchanted. Just look at all the hullaballoo going on in Slidell over a picture hung in a courthouse. And they are the ones with a schoolboard going to trial over the same complaint as mine.

 

So, while I am tempted to make a case of this, I do value continued financial security and physical safety. I'm hoping the case in Slidell goes well, forcing other schoolboards to reconsider their stances on this.

 

That way change can occur without costing me everything.

 

When does the case in Slidell go to court? I'll have to follow it to find out how it goes. Oh, off-topic but did you know that the poor mistreated Mychal Bell is now back in Juvie serving 18 months for ANOTHER crime he committed NOT related to the Jena 6? There was one 15 sec. report on the local news about it but nothing else. Where's CNN now?

[Light_of_Reason]

I must have missed that story. Maybe it didn't make it much farther than the regional news station.

 

I'm not sure when the Slidell case goes to court, but I bet we can find out on the Louisiana ACLU site.