perianwalsh Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 another city in jordan (if i am not wrong) is one of the oldest-i think it's oldest city-or civilization. i have no idea japan civilization is that old....anyway how do you all define civilization? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 ....anyway how do you all define civilization? Complexity. A collection of huts and farm plots does not suggest complexity. Division of labor, separate areas for crafts, specialization, a government/institutionalized heirarchy of some kind. Sure, it's a pretty wide grey line, but from what I've read, Ur still gets the prize for a fair amount of complexity at about 5000BCE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perianwalsh Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 ....anyway how do you all define civilization? Complexity. A collection of huts and farm plots does not suggest complexity. Division of labor, separate areas for crafts, specialization, a government/institutionalized heirarchy of some kind. Sure, it's a pretty wide grey line, but from what I've read, Ur still gets the prize for a fair amount of complexity at about 5000BCE. from what you observe,i think that's the case.i am not sure which civilization,but they define them as civilization as they got specific crafts,roads ,and bath tubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdall Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Complexity. A collection of huts and farm plots does not suggest complexity. Yes and no...a collection of huts and farm plots are usually part of a clan organization. Clans had division of labor, heirarchy, and usually special areas for crafts...the Jomon period mentioned by Jun does bear all of the earmarks of civilization...although not until around the time of Catal Huyuk and the P'ei-li-kang cultures of China, the Mehrgarh culture of India (precursor of the Indus valley culture) and the Trypillyan culture of Europe (Ukraine to be exact). These all predate Sumer, Uruk, Ur, Eridu, Kish, Lagash and Nippur (cities of the first empire - the Akkadian/Sumerian) by at least 2000 years, if not 3000. at 5000 BCE, Ur was still just a large village and did not emerge into importance as a city until around 3600 BCE. - Heimdall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perianwalsh Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Complexity. A collection of huts and farm plots does not suggest complexity. Yes and no...a collection of huts and farm plots are usually part of a clan organization. Clans had division of labor, heirarchy, and usually special areas for crafts...the Jomon period mentioned by Jun does bear all of the earmarks of civilization...although not until around the time of Catal Huyuk and the P'ei-li-kang cultures of China, the Mehrgarh culture of India (precursor of the Indus valley culture) and the Trypillyan culture of Europe (Ukraine to be exact). These all predate Sumer, Uruk, Ur, Eridu, Kish, Lagash and Nippur (cities of the first empire - the Akkadian/Sumerian) by at least 2000 years, if not 3000. at 5000 BCE, Ur was still just a large village and did not emerge into importance as a city until around 3600 BCE. - Heimdall does the complexity here implies uniquenesses? it seems that civilisation mostly starts with valley or sea-or anything with water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdall Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 it seems that civilisation mostly starts with valley or sea-or anything with water Yeah, mainly because man needs water for himself and his animals and crops. Even those civilizations that spring up by the sea are dependent on the local springs and streams. It wasn't until mankind had developed the engineering ability to build canals and aquaducts that many of the really good harbors could be developed. The Egyptians and Romans were past masters of this, creating harbors and cities where none existed before through canals and aquaducts bringing potable water to the areas. As far as unique - all human cultures are unique in many aspects yet share certain traits - just because they are human cultures and their humanity dictates that certain aspects be present. - Heimdall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jun Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Two Jomon period vilages have stone cute aquaducts that carry water from the mountains to the centre of the villages. Stone wells have also been found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rosso Dolore Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 I recommend a book named: Guns, Germs and Steel, author Jared Diamond. It´s very interesting book about why Eurasian civilizations conquerred others. It also gives some information about the oldest civilizations which mostly located in a place now known as the Fertile Crescent. As Diamond says, a civilization is not created out of sheer will or intelligence, but is the result of a chain of developments, each made possible by certain preconditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kwai-Chang Kate Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 I wonder what happened to all of the souls of these folks for thousands and thousands of years before Jesus showed up just 2,000 years ago to save us all from eternal damnation? No worries. Being an omnipresent entity, the Christian God is present in all time domains as well as physical dimensions and locations. Therefore, the death of Christ covers all that jazz in one fell swoop. In other words, it doesn't matter when Christ died, because he is everyWHEN at once, as well as everywhere. If we're going with a literal Jesus who was literally deity -- of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott_In_Michigan Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 I wonder what happened to all of the souls of these folks for thousands and thousands of years before Jesus showed up just 2,000 years ago to save us all from eternal damnation? No worries. Being an omnipresent entity, the Christian God is present in all time domains as well as physical dimensions and locations. Therefore, the death of Christ covers all that jazz in one fell swoop. In other words, it doesn't matter when Christ died, because he is everyWHEN at once, as well as everywhere. If we're going with a literal Jesus who was literally deity -- of course. Damn! I thought Satan, or maybe it was God, who put those ruins and human remains there in order to test the faith of the humans. I wonder how much information about human history was lost when the Library of Alexandria was destroyed. Man...it saddens me to think about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kwai-Chang Kate Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 Damn! I thought Satan, or maybe it was God, who put those ruins and human remains there in order to test the faith of the humans. But of course they did! Didn't you know? They're running a bet and a little contest to see how we resolve contradiction. I wonder how much information about human history was lost when the Library of Alexandria was destroyed. Man...it saddens me to think about that. Xenophobia. Feel the burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perianwalsh Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 is the celts are really that old?i never realised that.and for china,i dont think it's the oldest,although it is one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MesaGman Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 didn't they find "Lucy" a female human skeleton that dates back to 1 million years. In Africa? The peiking man I think is only 18,000 BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skankboy Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Don't know if anyone mentioned this, but India's got a pretty good contention for this title as well: Harappa and the Indus Civilization Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MesaGman Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 with all this evidence staring the Christians and debunking their 6000 young Earth Theroies down, why do they persist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I'm not sure how scientists study 'civilizations'. I think you have a civilization if two or three folks live together pooling resources to survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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