par4dcourse Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 My roomie, a 50 y.o. female, is what i would call a barely-believer. She would , if pushed, call herself a xtian. She hasn't been to a an hones tchurch servce in years. She acknowledes my atheism and dosn't try to disprove it. Her main conceern is the grandchildren. She wants them to learn basic biblical stories, since they turn up in modern idioms and phrases, and for them to learn basic morality. She knows that I shun xtianity in any form, but I do shut up sometimes to keep the peace. I, unlike fundies, wouldn't push my beliefs on a child. When they get old enough to ask, well, that's another matter. So what's the common opinion? Should I allow the grandkids to hear the fundie side without an input from the infidel? All my best, Larry s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Well, this is the $64,000 question isn't it? It's nice to think that if you sit back and respect others that they will do this in kind (the "golden" rule). Sadly it doesn't seem to play out that way. Lots of atheists like myself say plenty in places like this site but not so much elsewhere just for this reason. Sort of a "don't ask don't tell" version of religion/beliefs. The problem is the "enemy" doesn't have the same mandate. They have a different set of marching orders which means that they tend to evangelize (not all by any means...but you don't need all to start rocking the boat). The "anti-theists" tend to counter them by being more aggressive in this regard. Perhaps they should rename themselves Evangelical Atheists? (Then we'll have stupid atheists that blather whatever and they can just be Pentecostals and Charismatics...speaking "tongues" of sorts but really just pseudo-science gibberish.) I tend to not say much unless it comes up in conversation and I'm drawn into it (I just sit on the sidelines mostly). But it's not from lack of knowledge or being put on the spot it's simply because I have better things to do than argue with people that won't hear a word I say. In your situation it sounds like you might have a chance. If an opportunity came along naturally and you don't think it would cause any issues to your relationship then I would probably go for it but sort of ease into it just to test the waters. No point in putting a rift between you and your roommate over something that didn't need to be said (after all it didn't sound like they're your grandkids so be careful where you stick your nose). mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I have problems with the 'loud idiots'. I tend to go by the metric 'If I took their faith would it kill them or cause them to kill others' I the answer is 'yes' or 'I'm not sure' I let them go with their god unchallenged. It's a shame that, when they believe their god will protect them from evil, they try to convert me... BAAAD MOVE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gusdafa Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I dont know, is deconverting someone the same thing as asking them questions about their beliefs? There is a difference between telling someone that non-belief is valid and questioning their beliefs if it's valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 People need to know that other religions before Christianity had the same morals (for example, Buddhism). Even non-religious philosophers have written about the same morals. A book on philosophy might help. Christianity does not have an exclusive claim on morals, and it's time the world recognized that fact. That having been said, Biblical literacy is not a bad thing in and of itself for cultural understanding purposes, but be sure the grandkids know it's just an ancient story that some people have been brainwashed to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Should I allow the grandkids to hear the fundie side without an input from the infidel? I don’t have children, but I have two nephews and a niece. I am not likely to stress to them that I don’t believe in God. I am much more likely to stress that we live in a causal universe. And that it’s up to my nephews and niece to discern for themselves what comprises causality. I think the balance that must be struck with children is that they must be guided but they must not be trespassed upon. And I bear in mind that the lives of my nephews and niece are more than just vehicles in which to wage ideological wars. What teachings would truly help them in life? I can’t help but feel that to cultivate in them a passion to learn for themselves and to seek understanding on their own would serve them best in the long run. And it’s an easy sell because with understanding comes power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPw4 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Personally, and this is just my opinion, trying to "convert" or "deconvert" someone is self righteous. It is one thing to explain your belief or non belief to someone if they ask but, to purposely impose your ideas on someone with the intent to change their belief system is a bit self righteous. I have no problem with someone believing in Christianity. In fact, I am happy for them that they feel they have found meaning in life. Just because I think I know the truth does not in fact mean i know the truth.. I "knew" the truth as a Christian. I "know" the truth as a non-christian. What will I "know" tommorrow? I would say the best bet is to leave it alone unless asked to impart your knowledge.. And the fact that it is someone else's kids is treading on dangerous grounds.. anywho, just my opinion.. I wish you the best in whatever path you choose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 Sound advice from all, as usual. Thanks for being there, guys. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Trying to de-convert people can be a very frustrating experience. They resist on so many levels. Some seem immune to common sense, others see you as the devil spitting poison, while others are simply to lazy to be bothered with thinking things out. Most religion goes beyond belief, it is a brainwashing that starts at a *very* young age in many people. They have some many "implanted" ideas, through repetition as a child, the will power's ability to overcome this may just be too weak. Unless you *really* can tolerate frustration and failure, deconverting may not be for you. I certainly don't do it, I have no desire to drive myself nuts. I *will* plant nuggets though, gems I think they may reflect on later *if* they start to think on their own. Most folks won't deconvert unless the want to inside, you cannot force the issue imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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