The Numbers 3 7 And 12

[SWIM]

Ever wonder why the numbers 3, 7 and 12 pop up everywhere? We have 12 months, seven days in the week, 3 is used everywhere, we see these numbers in pretty much all religions as well.

 

Even the US ruler has 12 inches...

 

Strange isn't it?

 

What started and what fuels the use of these numbers more the others?

[Ouroboros]

If 12 is showing up everywhere, have you thought about that 1 and 2 is also showing up just as much?

 

Anyway, in the old religions numbers had a magical meaning. It probably started with the discovery of the ancient cave man that the moon had a cycle of 28 days. That gave birth to the 7 day week. 7+7+7+7=28. It could just as well have been 4+4+4+4+4+4+4 and the week had been made just 4 days, and a month being 7 weeks, but so it happens 7 was a higher number and it got the honor of becoming the days of a full week.

 

Then they discovered that a full year was close to 12 of these 28 day cycles, so 12 became a holy number too. It's 13, I wrote before I thought about it. Thanks for the correction everyone.

 

Then they saw the solstice and equinox twice each of them each year. That gave birth to 4 as a number, and 3 became the number of months between the 4 holy turns in the sky (spring equinoxe, summer solstice, fall equinox, winter solstice).

 

It's all astrology and numerology.

 

That's why 12 apostel, 12 tribes, 3 days, and much more...

[Islington]

Then they discovered that a full year was close to 12 of these 28 day cycles, so 12 became a holy number too.

 

Actualy 13 is as often the number of moons for a year as the 12. Xtianity choose the 12 because the suppressing older religions had 13 month and thus could show the difference and whats rigth and wrong to believe.

 

The 12 is the number of your fingers and Hands (5 +1 + 5 +1) though it was easy to count even in iliterate societys.

 

3 often is stated as the minimum unit of Family. 1 male, 1 female and 1 childe. (in early cultures, children where neither untill the where initiated into the adult-society). It is also the number of Day, Night and Inbetween; Winter, Summer and inbetween; living, death and being born or dying; 2 and the state that is neither.

 

3 is the holyest number in Celtic culture and it was brought into xtianity by them as Celtic culture and new believe melted peacfully in that land. As the marched out as Monks who teached there believe it was even more integrated to Xtian culture, also it must have bin in there bevore.

 

Also the 3 is a matematical phenomenon as the smalest "Primzahl" (missing the word) for it can't be divided through two without braking up, thus giving her an important place in many Ccultures with high mathematic standarts. I think I remember someone stating, that some Mathmatics start the "Primzahlen" with 7 for some reason I do not remember...

 

7 also derives from 3 (see above) and 4 (meaning 2 times 2 and 2 beeing the holy pair) it is sometimes said that the 3 is female and the 4 is male in Numerology, and especialy in the Numerology of preliterated cultures.

[mwc]

Hans pretty much nailed it. In the lunar cults the moon dictated a lot of these things. When solar cults rose up they had to find alternate meanings or merge the two together. So people, just like today, would find meaning in groups of 3 wherever they found them (sun, moon, earth) and the 3 seasons (being Mediterranean they didn't have the distinct 4th season). The same applies to the other numbers you mention.

 

Other cultures adopted these same "standards" of measure but re-interpreted their origins in their own myths (ie. why are there really 7 days in the week and the like) as you can see in Islington's post.

 

mwc

[Ouroboros]

Then they discovered that a full year was close to 12 of these 28 day cycles, so 12 became a holy number too.

 

Actualy 13 is as often the number of moons for a year as the 12. Xtianity choose the 12 because the suppressing older religions had 13 month and thus could show the difference and whats rigth and wrong to believe.

My bad, it's an oops! on the 12x28 for the year.

 

I think Astrology always had 12 months, even before Christianity, so I'm not so sure about the 13 month thing. I think it could be the pre-julian calendar. And I think the Jewish zodiac had 12 months too, in pre-christian era. That's what I remember though, but I'll look it up later. But you're right, it's 13 x 28 for the year, so a pure lunar calendar would have 13 months. I do think it was Julius Caesar that introduced the 365 day year, 12 months and a leap year to adjust. But later they had to add the expection years (every 100)

 

Ah, the Holy Wikipedia always got good stuff: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar

 

---

 

Another reason why 12 is a good number, you can divide it by 2, 3. That's why inch and feet etc is based on 12. Easier to divide in 2 or 3.

[SWIM]

So, what is the origin of 13 being an unlucky number? That one puzzles me too.

[Ouroboros]

I heard about 13 once, but dont' remember from the top of my head. You can probably look it up, but I think it was from wicca.

 

(When looking it up, I found a reference to a 13 month calendar. During the Tudor time in England they had a 13 month calendar.)

 

Anyway, maybe 13 has to do with the reason that 12 is a "good" or "holy" number? So the next number then becomes the unlucky one?

[Brother Jeff]

Even the US ruler has 12 inches...

Brother Bush has a 12 inch dick? Wow! Glory!

[Brother Jeff]

So, what is the origin of 13 being an unlucky number? That one puzzles me too.

Several possibilities:

 

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13_(number)#Unlucky_13:

 

Thirteen is regarded as an unlucky number in many cultures. Fear of the number 13 is termed triskaidekaphobia. The thirteenth of a month is likewise ominous, particularly when it falls on a Friday in some English-speaking cultures, Russia and Germany (see Friday the 13th) or a Tuesday in the Greek and Spanish-speaking world.

 

Suggested explanations

 

Thirteen may be considered a "bad" number simply because when a group of 13 objects or people is divided into two, three, four or six equal groups, there is always one leftover, or "unlucky", object or person.

 

It was suggested by Charles A. Platt writing in 1925 that the reason 13 is considered unlucky is that a person can count from 1-12 with their 8 fingers, two thumbs and 2 feet, but not beyond that, so the number 13 is unknown, hence frightening, hence unlucky.[1] This idea discounts the use of toes or other body parts in counting.

 

Some Christian traditions have it that at the Last Supper, Judas Iscariot, the disciple who betrayed Jesus, was the 13th to sit at the table.

 

According to another interpretation, the number 13 is unlucky because it is the number of full moons in a contemporary year, but two full moons in a single calendar month (mistakenly referred to as a blue moon in a magazine article of the 1940s) only happens about every 2.5 years. [2]

 

Early nursery rhymes stated there were thirteen months in a year because of the natural moon cycle that was used to count the lunar year. In England, a calendar of thirteen months of 28 days each, plus one extra day, known as "a year and a day" was still in use up to Tudor times. The lunar year was the easiest to count for cultures before scientific methods existed to observe the movement of the earth around the sun, so it was associated with worship of the pagan Great Goddess[citation needed] for thousands of years, which may be another reason for 13 becoming a taboo number. Taboo often is misunderstood when only half of the totem and taboo relationship is recognized. Among religions having totem and taboo characteristics, that which is taboo on a regular basis may become quite sacred on special occasions.

 

In Tarot decks, the 13th card of the Major Arcana is Death. While Death is rarely interpreted literally, it is possible that this furthered the perception of 13 as an unlucky number.

 

Another hypothesis about the origin of Friday the 13th as an unlucky day is attributed to this being the day that the Knights Templar were slaughtered in a collaboration between King Philip IV of France and Pope Clement V finishing with the burning at the stake of Jacques De Molay.

 

The legion with which Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon was the Legio XIII Gemina or the 13th legion.

 

13 is the 6th prime number. 6 is sometimes considered an unlucky number due to its association with 666.

[Casey]

One reason the number 12 comes up so often is perhaps because 12 can be divided by itself, as well as by 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6. That was the basis behind British currency. A pound was 240 pence. As there were 12 pence to a shilling, 20 shillings made up a pound, and so on. This wasn't as silly as it sounds at first sight. Suppose three people agreed to share in the purchase of some article costing one pound. It would cost them 80p each, or 6s 8p. Try doing that with US Dollars or any other decimal currency.

 

However the bureaucrats didn't like this. It's well known they can't count to 12 without taking their boots off and with some the process would take all night as well. Anyway, man had evolved from apes, hadn't he, and as an ape had ten fingers and ten toes, it made sense to switch over to a decimal system, didn't it? (just taking the mick, OK?)

 

Same thing went for measurement of length and so on. This base 12 system was supposed to have been handed down to us by the Babylonians.

 

As for Friday the 13th, that was supposed to have been unlucky because Phillip of France ordered the arrest (and eventual destruction) of the Knights Templars on that date. But for me, numbers are just numbers.

Casey

[Japedo]

3,7,12

 

Well get this... Typing of Numbers..

 

The Boston Red Sox and Cleavland Indians are Tied in the ALCS Series 3 Wins each tonight. Boston forcing a 7 game series.

 

Tomorrow Game 7 decides who goes to the world series. Winner take all!

 

JD Drew of the Sox tonight happens to be also Number 7 Is the Hero of the game and hit a Grand slam in the first inning.

 

Final Score Red Sox 12. Boston also did most of the runs in the game in the first 3 innings, Most damage done at the bottom of the 3rd.

 

 

I'm sure if I wasn't so tired I could come up with some other cool aspects of these numbers but It will do for now.

 

GO Sox!! Here's hoping we Win Game 7 and then the World Series!!

[Brother Jeff]

3,7,12

 

Well get this... Typing of Numbers..

 

The Boston Red Sox and Cleavland Indians are Tied in the ALCS Series 3 Wins each tonight. Boston forcing a 7 game series.

 

Tomorrow Game 7 decides who goes to the world series. Winner take all!

 

JD Drew of the Sox tonight happens to be also Number 7 Is the Hero of the game and hit a Grand slam in the first inning.

 

Final Score Red Sox 12. Boston also did most of the runs in the game in the first 3 innings, Most damage done at the bottom of the 3rd.

 

 

I'm sure if I wasn't so tired I could come up with some other cool aspects of these numbers but It will do for now.

 

GO Sox!! Here's hoping we Win Game 7 and then the World Series!!

There are Three members of the Trinity who are all somehow magically Each Other, there were 12 Disciples of Kryasst, and 7 is the Holy Farter's Perfect Number, which all somehow magically proves that Jesus is Lord! Glory!

 

 

[Japedo]

Which all somehow magically proves that Jesus is Lord! Glory!

 

 

 

Just thought I'd have fun with the numbers thread is all. It was a great game and thought I'd share the coincidences is all. In saying that, I don't honestly believe the numbers, gawd or any other factors tug or push the outcome of anything..

 

 

ETA: Okay Jeff, You edited your post LOL never mind I see now that you were making a funny I was replying before you changed it. Anyways.. It's late.. G'night!!

[Brother Jeff]

Which all somehow magically proves that Jesus is Lord! Glory!

 

 

 

Just thought I'd have fun with the numbers thread is all. It was a great game and thought I'd share the coincidences is all. In saying that, I don't honestly believe the numbers, gawd or any other factors tug or push the outcome of anything..

 

 

ETA: Okay Jeff, You edited your post LOL never mind I see now that you were making a funny I was replying before you changed it. Anyways.. It's late.. G'night!!

Amen and Hall-lay-LOOH-Yah, Sister! Goodnight!

[Thurisaz]

Then they discovered that a full year was close to 12 of these 28 day cycles, so 12 became a holy number too.

 

Mild objection - divide 365 by 28 and you get almost exactly 13, not 12.

 

Aside from that, yeah, some things simply happen one specific way and they stay that way ever after.

 

Plus, how many planets are visible again to the naked eye? I seem to remember that the old "7 days a week" thingie can be nicely explained by that one...

 

(EDIT)

 

Oh well, I see that my beloved has already posted that.

 

*sneaks up behind Islington and hugs her from behind*

[mwc]

Anyway, maybe 13 has to do with the reason that 12 is a "good" or "holy" number? So the next number then becomes the unlucky one?

A lot of people have posted up decent explanations while I've been off doing whatever but long ago one better really did mean better. So 8 was better than 7 but it was dependent on the context. So, for example, the Egyptians liked 7 (a lot) and all the multiples of it. But what about 8? They did think that 8 was going to represent something special when it came along. It was reserved. Jump forward and, if you tinker a bit, you can make the name jesus add up to 8 (or a multiple...which is just as good in the game). Could be a coincidence or someone is playing gematria with the names of the "chosen one" in the story and needed some 8's for the lead.

 

The point is that 13 should be one better than 12 but it goes the opposite. This seems very superstition-y which makes it seem much more recent than the number games I've read about in the old texts (I can't think of any "unlucky" numbers at all as a matter of fact).

 

mwc

[Islington]

Even the US ruler has 12 inches...

Brother Bush has a 12 inch dick? Wow! Glory!

 

Hey, at least somthing good at this bastard! Glory, Brother Jeff!

 

 

Then they discovered that a full year was close to 12 of these 28 day cycles, so 12 became a holy number too.

 

Mild objection - divide 365 by 28 and you get almost exactly 13, not 12.

 

(EDIT)

 

Oh well, I see that my beloved has already posted that.

 

*sneaks up behind Islington and hugs her from behind*

 

You are late Honey!

 

13 as the number of Moons in a prechristian calendar was a holy and I think a lucky number until it was named a devils number because of being nonchristian. Everything holy to any other religion was deemed evil or changed and assimilated as many Saints can be easily tracked down to prechristian Gods. All propagandameasurments of an agressiv church.

[Evolution_beyond]

well 12 is the number of constellations in the Zodiac (at least traditionally) - and so this has crept into many cultures, probably because of that.

 

3 - is one of those basic dimensional numbers that is everywhere in nature also. After all there is always the possibitity of two opposites and their inbetween.

 

7 - no idea. It's a fairly significant prime number - the lowest prime number that is not painfully obvious that it would be prime. I dunno, that's all I can think of

[Ouroboros]

13 as the number of Moons in a prechristian calendar was a holy and I think a lucky number until it was named a devils number because of being nonchristian. Everything holy to any other religion was deemed evil or changed and assimilated as many Saints can be easily tracked down to prechristian Gods. All propagandameasurments of an agressiv church.

Okay. I see. 13 became the unlucky number in the growing Christian society, because it had pagan roots.

[Thurisaz]

Reminds me of that funny thing about German names for the weekdays.

 

English "Wednesday" (Wodan's day) - the origin is obvious.

 

German name for that day? "Mittwoch" (literally "middle of the week"). I wonder why and when that changed. I do have my suspicions... and only wonder why the rest of the names haven't been touched. The connection between "Donnerstag" (Thursday) and Thor's German name "Donar" e. g. is painfully obvious too, but that name more or less stayed the same.

[Islington]

Thurisaz, it changed when the holy day of the week (not only that of the jew) was pushed form Saturday to Sunday by cristian doctrine to distinguish there church from the jewish. Thus the Sabbat was named evil and "Hexensabbat", Sabbat of the Witches. Again propaganda.

[Jun]

In Japan the unluckiest number is 4 which is pronounced shi - which is also how the word "death" is pronounced. So you won't find appartments or houses with the number 4.

[Islington]

It took a long while until they started to build hotels or skyscrapers with a 13. floor or roomnumber. heard that mostly about Amerika but think its been the same in Europa.

[Brother Jeff]

Amerika

That spelling reminds me of a TV miniseries that came out in the early 80s when I was in high school. As I recall, it was about the peaceful takeover of America by the Soviet Union. The very idea of the show and of such an event upset me so much that I refused to watch the show, but I think it was popular for some reason. It's beyond me why anyone would even conceive of making such a terrible TV show, much less watch it...