♦ nivek ♦ Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Some unnamed little fucking pissant takes objection to simple words said over a Vets Flag as it is being folded fresh off his/her coffin... I KNOW the words are based in religious connections. Big fucking deal. These words, the action, the final H o n o r given the Vet is as important to those around the burial. I fell that complaining about this is as fucking retarded as bitching about the Pledge. Accomplishes nothing, raises hackles of the sheepish religious majority, gives the godless a "black eye", and in end has done nothing for those whose Honor and sacrifice is being interred. Should some dumbfuck show up 'round these parts pulling this shit, I'm gonna "phelsicize" them with loud tunes from fat short pipes.. Fuck me to tears.. kFL *************** Flag-folding recitations for vets banned because of religious contentAssociated Press OneNewsNow.com October 26, 2007 http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/10/flagfold...ions_for_ve.php RIVERSIDE,California - Complaints about religious content have led to a ban on flag-folding recitations by Veterans Administration employees and volunteers at all 125 national cemeteries. It all started because of one complaint about the ceremony at Riverside National Cemetery in California. During thousands of military burials, the volunteers have folded the American flag 13 times and recited the significance of every fold to survivors. For example, the 12th fold glorifies "God the Father, the Son and Holy Ghost." The complaint revolved around the narration in the 11th fold, which celebrates Jewish war veterans and "glorifies the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob." The National Cemetery Administration decided to ban the entire recital at all national cemeteries. Details of the complaint weren't disclosed. Administration spokesman Mike Nacincik said the new policy outlined in a Sept. 27 memorandum is aimed at creating uniform services throughout the military graveyard system. He said the 13-fold recital is not part of the U.S. Flag Code and is not government-approved. Veterans and honor detail volunteers, including Bobby Castillo, 85, and Rees Lloyd, 59, are furious. "That the actions of one disgruntled, whining, narcissistic and intolerant individual is preventing veterans from getting the honors they deserve is truly an outrage," Lloyd said. "This is another attempt by secularist fanatics to cleanse any reference to God." World War II Navy veteran Castillo said it's "a slap in the face to every veteran." "When we got back from the war, we didn't ask for a whole lot," Castillo said. "We just want to give our veterans the respect they deserve. No one has ever complained to us about it. I just don't understand." Lloyd and Castillo are part of a 16-member detail that has performed military honors at more than 1,400 services. They were preparing to read the flag-folding remarks at the Riverside cemetery when graveyard staff members stopped them. Charlie Waters, parliamentarian for the American Legion of California, said he's advising memorial honor details to ignore the edict. "This is nuts," Waters told the Riverside Press-Enterprise by telephone from Fresno. "There are 26 million veterans in this country, and they're not going to take us all to prison." Nacincik said that though the flag-folding narrative includes references to God that the government does not endorse, the main reason for the new rules is uniformity. "We are looking at consistency," Nacincik said. "We think that's important." Rabbi Yitzhak Miller of Temple Beth El said he understands the ban. "It is a perfect example of government choosing to ignore religion in order to avoid offending some religions," Miller said. "To me, ignoring religion in general is just as problematic as endorsing any one religion." Flag Folding Ceremony The flag folding ceremony represents the same religious principles on which our country was originally founded. The portion of the flag denoting honor is the canton of blue containing the stars representing the states our veterans served in uniform. The canton field of blue dresses from left to right and is inverted when draped as a pall on a casket of a veteran who has served our country in uniform. In the Armed Forces of the United States, at the ceremony of retreat the flag is lowered, folded in a triangle fold and kept under watch throughout the night as a tribute to our nation's honored dead. The next morning it is brought out and, at the ceremony of reveille, run aloft as a symbol of our belief in the resurrection of the body. (Wait for the Honor Guard or Flag Detail to unravel and fold the flag into a quarter fold--resume reading when Honor Guard is standing ready.) The first fold of our flag is a symbol of life. The second fold is a symbol of our belief in the eternal life. The third fold is made in honor and remembrance of the veteran departing our ranks who gave a portion of life for the defense of our country to attain a peace throughout the world. The fourth fold represents our weaker nature, for as American citizens trusting in God, it is to Him we turn in times of peace as well as in times of war for His divine guidance. The fifth fold is a tribute to our country, for in the words of Stephen Decatur, "Our country, in dealing with other countries, may she always be right; but it is still our country, right or wrong." The sixth fold is for where our hearts lie. It is with our heart that we pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. The seventh fold is a tribute to our Armed Forces, for it is through the Armed Forces that we protect our country and our flag against all her enemies, whether they be found within or without the boundaries of our republic. The eighth fold is a tribute to the one who entered in to the valley of the shadow of death, that we might see the light of day, and to honor mother, for whom it flies on Mother's Day. The ninth fold is a tribute to womanhood; for it has been through their faith, love, loyalty and devotion that the character of the men and women who have made this country great have been molded. The tenth fold is a tribute to father, for he, too, has given his sons and daughters for the defense of our country since they were first born. The eleventh fold, in the eyes of a Hebrew citizen, represents the lower portion of the seal of King David and King Solomon, and glorifies, in their eyes, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The twelfth fold, in the eyes of a Christian citizen, represents an emblem of eternity and glorifies, in their eyes, God the Father, the Son, and Holy Ghost. When the flag is completely folded, the stars are uppermost, reminding us of our national motto, "In God we Trust." (Wait for the Honor Guard or Flag Detail to inspect the flag--after the inspection, resume reading.) After the flag is completely folded and tucked in, it takes on the appearance of a cocked hat, ever reminding us of the soldiers who served under General George Washington and the sailors and marines who served under Captain John Paul Jones who were followed by their comrades and shipmates in the Armed Forces of the United States, preserving for us the rights, privileges, and freedoms we enjoy today. Charlie Waters, parliamentarian for the American Legion of California, said he's advising memorial honor details to ignore the edict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Methinks in such a case the (non-)belief of the fallen vet should dictate the proceedings. I'm neither from the US nor a vet, but imagining for a moment that I am, I would not want someone to recite some jebus cult crap at my funeral, no matter for what reason. But banning that part of the ceremony for everyone, no matter the individual situation... that's a bit over the top I think. If the fallen one and his loved ones are christians, where's the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Dead right. A man's entitled to be buried according to his lights. Whether others agree with 'em or not isn't the point. Charlie Waters, parliamentarian for the American Legion of California, said he's advising memorial honor details to ignore the edict. And so he bloody well should! Well done that man! Our Services use a non-denominational verse on Anzac Day and Rememberance Day: They shall not grow old, As we who are left grow old. Age shall not weary them, Nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun And in the morning We will remember them. Casey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuaiDan Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 False flag attack? I wouldn't put it past the fundies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 These words, the action, the final H o n o r given the Vet is as important to those around the burial..... I would consider it a great DISHONOR for someone to read anything religious when folding the flag at my funeral. I'm a 10 year veteran of the USNavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted October 28, 2007 Author Share Posted October 28, 2007 These words, the action, the final H o n o r given the Vet is as important to those around the burial..... I would consider it a great DISHONOR for someone to read anything religious when folding the flag at my funeral. I'm a 10 year veteran of the USNavy. Dave, Thank you for your time in the Service. Prior to end of your life, I hope you let your heirs and loved ones know that the Recitation is something you do not want said over your remains. Other than that, the tradition is an ingrained part of the service, a cultural rather than religious ceremony. kFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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