Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

[webmdave]

I asked a Christian poster to this site if he kept the Sabbath holy or if he profaned the Sabbath by going shopping, or perhaps eating at McDonalds after church, etc.

 

Here’s what he said:

 

First and fourth commandments say the same thing. The NT doesn't mention the fourth Commandment to keep because Jesus is that Commandment. He mentions to keep the other nine but that one was replaced by the New Covenant in Christ.

 

You are missing out on some very important teachings that is wonderful let me explain a bit. Lets take the Sabbath in Genesis 2:2-3 "And God had finished on the seventh day his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it, because that on it he rested from all his work which God had created in making it."

 

He rested, not because he was tired but that the work was complete. Now we have a completion in Jesus and we are in His rest.

 

Hebrews 4:1 "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it."

 

Hebrews 4:9-11 "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."

 

Jesus IS the Sabbath, the completion, not a Saturday or Sunday. We are complete in Christ, nothing more is required for salvation it ends in Christ. Not a man made building and established hierarchy.

 

Are you ready to repent now? Not yet? OK maybe this will help. Basic hermeneutics have some steps to understand the Bible:

 

Step One: Grasp the text in their town. What did the text say to the original audience?

 

Step Two: Measure the width of the river to cross. What are the differences between the biblical audience and us? (time, culture, language, situation, covenant.)

 

Step Three: Cross the principlizing bridge. What is the theological principle in this text?

 

Step Four: Does the New Testament change our understanding of an OT text?

 

Step Five: Grasp the text in our town. How should the individual Christian apply the theological principles in our lives today?

 

Things to take in account is The Inductive Method, Authorial Intent, and the most important a Grammatical Historical Method of Interpretation: To determine exactly what the author intended and how the original audience would have understood it.

 

Just to be clear you are using an eisegesis, and Reader-response method.

 

From my blog: "I use an Exegesis method of interpretation instead of an eisegesis method. Does this mean that eisegesis thinking is wrong, I would say yes because it is a capricious attitude. It may even be breaking the 2nd Commandment and making a god to suite yourself."

Mr. Marvin's blog: dmarvin811.blogspot.com

 

Basically, if I am reading him correctly, Mr. Marvin is telling me I am not applying the correct interpretation (Dan Marvin’s interpretation) to the Bible. It seemed clear to me that one of the Ten Commandments said to keep the Sabbath Day holy, but Mr. Marvin sees my obvious reading of the text as too simplistic.

 

Now, I readily admit that I don’t believe the Bible, and I think that adhering to archaic religious laws like this would be ridiculous, but regardless, is Mr. Marvin correct? Is keeping the Sabbath now passé for the Christian? And if so, I wonder why it is still included in the giant granite Ten Commandment statues all around the USA.

 

This is the interesting thing about Christianity. Modern Christians want to have a nice big Cracker Barrel lunch after church, and if buying and selling on the Sabbath is a no-no, then how’s a good churchman to eat?

 

Well, what do other “True Christians™â€ have to say about the matter?

 

From Let Us Reason Ministries:

 

“And so every time you remember the Sabbath day you are honoring the true God. That's why, if this commandment had always been kept, there would be no atheist, agnostic, idolater, or skeptic.” (prophecy seminar The Seventh day Sabbath true worship lesson 10 Leo Schreven) Really! This didn’t happen when all of Israel had kept it, even as a nation under God. While it may be true to keep the Sabbath honors God, it is not the only day or way to do so. Nor is it THE way to do so.

 

“He created this day in honor of himself as being the creator of all things. And you can read all through the bible God wants us to remember it.”

 

From the Second Presbyterian Church:

 

We know from the gospel accounts that Jesus kept the Sabbath day, that on the Sabbath day he went to the synagogue. The gospel accounts say that this was his custom. "As was his custom," he would go to the synagogue and there would sing God’s praise in the Psalms, hear the word read and proclaimed, just as it is done today. So both our scripture readings are about the Sabbath. The one that we now have in Deuteronomy 5 is explicitly about the Sabbath day, but the first reading, read just a moment or two ago from Matthew 11 is also, though implicitly, about the Sabbath day. That is, the word Sabbath is not mentioned, but the word "rest" is central to the text. Remember Jesus says, "Come to me all you who labor and who are heavy-laden and I will give you rest" – I will give you what the Sabbath commands and promises; rest, eternal rest, even heavenly rest . . . .

 

"Rest" is what the Sabbath day commandment is about, both literally and spiritually. We know that the Jewish people reflected on the fourth commandment, not just in its literal sense ("resting" on one day of the week) but they also thought about what it meant in its deepest level…

 

From John Pipers’ Desiring God website:

 

"Keep it holy," means set it aside from all other days as special. Specifically, as verse 10 says, keep it "to the Lord," or "for the Lord." In other words, the rest is not to be aimless rest, but God-centered rest. Attention is to be directed to God in a way that is more concentrated and steady than on ordinary days. Keep the day holy by keeping the focus on the holy God.

 

From USA Today:

 

For all the attention paid this past year to public displays of the Ten Commandments, you'd think people would spend as much energy trying to follow them.

 

When it comes to the Fourth Commandment — "Remember the Sabbath Day" — that's not the case. And pastors like me, far from being role models, are among the worst offenders. After all, we work every Sunday.

 

From TruthSeek.net:

 

The Bible is profoundly clear (Colossians 2:16) in forbidding any Christian from judging another Christian in regard to keeping the Sabbath (many Christians, however, attempt to twist this scripture into justifying their NOT keeping the Sabbath), or in meat (and I'll tell ya, as both a Sabbath keeper and a vegetarian, I have been judged harshly by "Christians" for both these Biblical concepts -- remember, not everyone who claims to be of God, is of God), or in drink (some people have given up the Sabbath, but oddly, not the eating and the drinking, another thought to ponder).

 

From the Geneva Study Bible

 

Remember the sabbath day, {g} to keep it holy.

 

(g) Which is by meditating the spiritual rest, by hearing God's word, and resting from worldly labours.

[Monk]

"From my blog: "I use an Exegesis method of interpretation instead of an eisegesis method. Does this mean that eisegesis thinking is wrong, I would say yes because it is a capricious attitude. It may even be breaking the 2nd Commandment and making a god to suite yourself.""

 

If Dan wrote this (and I presume he did) then this is the biggest piece of hypocrisy (if not an outright LIE) I've read in a long time. He uses nothing but eisegesis based on what I've seen and read from him. Perhaps he has his definitions confused? I could care less about how his view fits christian theology, but it seems to me that, not only does he make a god to suite himself, he also tends to put words into god's mouth.

[South2003]

According to the story, Moses smashed the first set of tables in a fit of anger, because the Israelites chose to worship the golden calf. As the tale goes, Moses smashed the tables of stone, and God said he'd make a new set of tables containing "the words that were on the first" (Exodus 34:1). However, as we see, the second Ten Commandments in no way resemble the first set.

 

Should we follow the First Tables of Stone (Exodus 20) ("which Moses didst break") or the Second Tables of Stone (Exodus 34) ("the words that were on the first").

 

1. I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me.

 

1. Thou shalt worship no other god (For the Lord is a jealous god). There are other gods?

 

2. You shall not make for yourself a graven image. You shall not bow down to them or serve them.

 

2. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.

 

 

3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.

 

3. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep in the month when the ear is on the corn. Ok, someone explain this one.

 

4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

 

4. All the first-born are mine. Mine to do what with?

 

5. Honor your father and your mother.

 

5. Six days shalt thou work, but on the seventh thou shalt rest.

 

6. You shall not kill.

 

6. Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, even of the first fruits of the wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

 

 

7. You shall not commit adultery.

 

7. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread. HUH?

 

 

8. You shall not steal.

 

8. The fat of my feast shall not remain all night until the morning.

 

 

9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

 

9. The first of the first fruits of thy ground thou shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God.

 

 

10. You shall not covet.

 

10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk. WTF?

 

 

Since the eternity of our heathen souls depends on following them to the "T", Mr. Dan needs to consult Mr. Almighty as to which set he'd prefer, # 1 or #2. *tsk tsk*?

[Ouroboros]

There's something wrong with the story ofthe two set of tablets...

 

If Moses wrote down the story, then he obviously knew what was on the first set of tablets, why didn't he write the same things on the second then?

 

Or if someone else wrote the story, then that person knew what the first set of tablets said, and how that's possible if they were destroyed before anyone else but Moses saw them?

 

Shouldn't the first set be unknown or at least be the same as the second set?

[Monk]

"3. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep in the month when the ear is on the corn. Ok, someone explain this one."

 

I'm fairly certain this refers to the feast of the Passover (which celebrated the Exodus legend that said god's murderous spirit killed all the EGYPTIAN first born and not the Jewish--as the last of the 10 plagues). As for the part where it says "in the month when the ear is on the corn"...who knows which month that is? Probably right before harvest time.

 

For some reason, Jews holy (and edible) bread had to be unleavened. I think it probably stems from the fact that the manna they were fed in the wilderness was unleavened.

 

If I'm in error, someone please correct me, but I do believe I've got it right.

[South2003]

If Moses wrote down the story, then he obviously knew what was on the first set of tablets, why didn't he write the same things on the second then?

 

Moses smashed the tables of stone, and God said he'd make a new set of tables containing "the words that were on the first" (Exodus 34:1). Mr. Universe had a slip in memory, not Moses...

[Ouroboros]

If Moses wrote down the story, then he obviously knew what was on the first set of tablets, why didn't he write the same things on the second then?

 

Moses smashed the tables of stone, and God said he'd make a new set of tables containing "the words that were on the first" (Exodus 34:1). Mr. Universe had a slip in memory, not Moses...

So Moses pretty much knew that God wrote the wrong commandments on the second one, but to be fair he wrote both of them down in his "story book". (If we imagine Moses was the author) I don't know if I'd trust a God that has short term memory loss...

 

God - "Hi! What's your name?"

 

Moses - "Moses"

 

God - "Oh, nice to meet you Moses. Lets write some commandments on a tablet"

 

Moses - "Okay"

 

God - "Oh, Hi! Who are you? What's your name?"

 

Moses - "Moses. But you knew that already, right?"

 

God - "Oh, Yeah. I know everything. I don't forget anything... and who are you again?..."

 

It's like the Dora (IIRC) in Finding Nemo. (Correction: Dory)

[South2003]

If I'm in error, someone please correct me, but I do believe I've got it right.

 

Monk, no correction necessary.

 

When a Christian brings up the TEN Commandoes and how we should venerate them, my first question is: Which set of commandments should we adhere to?

 

Then I get a blank stare

[South2003]

God - "Hi! What's your name?"

 

Moses - "Moses"

 

God - "Oh, nice to meet you Moses. Lets write some commandments on a tablet"

 

Moses - "Okay"

 

God - "Oh, Hi! Who are you? What's your name?"

 

Moses - "Moses. But you knew that already, right?"

 

God - "Oh, Yeah. I know everything. I don't forget anything... and who are you again?..."

 

[Ouroboros]

There's two sets in the Bible, but the Catholic Church got a third one or how was it again?

 

So maybe the question is: "Oh, you mean the twenty (or thirty) commandments?"

[South2003]

So Moses pretty much knew that God wrote the wrong commandments on the second one, but to be fair he wrote both of them down in his "story book".

 

And if Moses chiseled the first set as it was Written on the tablets the first time, then it's fair to say Moses has the better memory of commandments. Therefore, Moses is God. Praise Be!

 

I wonder, was there was a second bush burning?

 

 

 

~~~

[Monk]

If I'm in error, someone please correct me, but I do believe I've got it right.

 

Monk, no correction necessary.

 

When a Christian brings up the TEN Commandoes and how we should venerate them, my first question is: Which set of commandments should we adhere to?

 

Then I get a blank stare

 

 

Then, the more verbose among them probably say: "duh! like, THE 10 commandments. Hello! Like, oh my gosh, I can't believe you don't know that. My preacher said...."

 

 

 

"There's two sets in the Bible, but the Catholic Church got a third one or how was it again?

 

So maybe the question is: "Oh, you mean the twenty (or thirty) commandments?""

 

Thus saith the POPE...I mean Paul...I mean Peter...I mean Moses...or was it Jesus... ad infinitum until insanity (or divine revelation) take them. Cognitive dissonance is a beautiful thing...to BEHOLD, not HAVE.

[South2003]

There's two sets in the Bible, but the Catholic Church got a third one or how was it again?

 

You can view them on: Ten Commandments

[Monk]

By the way, if you guys haven't already, you need to go to the main blog and check this guy out. He's trying to pick/continue the fight. (It's under the same heading as this one).

[South2003]

Yes Mr. Dan Marvin. Pity, I can't post there (I'm blocked). But Monk, please do ask Mr. Dan which set of commandments (if you don't mind).

 

thx

[Monk]

Yes Mr. Dan Marvin. Pity, I can't post there (I'm blocked). But Monk, please do ask Mr. Dan which set of commandments (if you don't mind).

 

thx

 

 

I'll see what I can do. If he bites on my question, we'll go from there.

 

You were blocked??? I didn't know anyone got blocked over there. Dare I ask what you did to get blocked?

[South2003]

You were blocked??? I didn't know anyone got blocked over there. Dare I ask what you did to get blocked?

 

 

Somehow, I can post here but not on there. I'm at work shsssssssssssh. Firewall?

[Monk]

Gotcha.

 

I'm at work, too, but my system seems to allow free-reign. If I didn't do all the work my job requires (plus extra) in addition to doing this, I'd probably be worried.

 

I'm a model of efficiency.

[garrisonjj]

I asked a Christian poster to this site if he kept the Sabbath holy or if he

Tell him to leave me the fuck alone as I like to watch porn, fuck my wife/girlfriend and then curse th FUCKIN sabbath!

[mwc]

Should we follow the First Tables of Stone (Exodus 20) ("which Moses didst break") or the Second Tables of Stone (Exodus 34) ("the words that were on the first").

We should follow the second. The reasons are the words on the first were obviously lost. They never made it down the mountain but ended up in pieces. How could we ever know what was written on those tablets? Also, the only place in the text where the phrase "Ten Commandments" is used is after the second set is given. Obviously the first ten must have been exactly the same as these and these are the ten commandments. What people think are the ten commandments are something else or a forgery. It's only logical. Whatever is in Deuteronomy 5 that the Jews follow must also be wrong.

 

3. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep in the month when the ear is on the corn. Ok, someone explain this one.

Refers to the Feast of Unleavened bread. Simple right? Passover was technically only the first night of the festival then the rest of the week was this festival. Odds are extremely good that "Passover" came much, much later and the two events "merged" into one with Passover becoming the more important of the two (like how Easter now outshines Passover and what the fuck is this bread thing?).

 

4. All the first-born are mine. Mine to do what with?

You bring up a good point and one that was likely redacted out of the texts (although I'm sure people will disagree with me). Look at what "HE" does with the first-born/first fruits. If you have an important animal, such as an ox, then you pay blood money to hang onto it. If you can't pay that money then it gets whacked by the priests because it belongs to YHWH. First born sons belong to "him" as well but the text is oddly silent on what happens if you can't pay up (this is the "ransom" parallel the NT tries to make by the way...it's to the priests...other parallels are for slaves and whatnot...it's very ambitious in its appeals to its various audiences). The obvious answer is that if your other "firsts" get killed if you can't pay the ransom then it stands to reason that all firsts get killed but when that practice was abolished it was removed from the books so their "god" wasn't seen as barbaric but the "gods" that still did such things would be (very few actually did...YHWH was a bloodthirsty guy).

 

7. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread. HUH?

Leaven and blood do not mix. It causes bacterial problems. "God," being wise, made this order to avoid those problems. Of course he could have just not wanted all that blood but he just couldn't resist the sweet smell (and the killing).

 

8. The fat of my feast shall not remain all night until the morning.

They were to burn their leftovers so that they didn't sit around and rot overnight. "God" is a stickler for cleanliness. And he seems to know a good idea when other cultures already figured this all out.

 

10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk. WTF?

I don't know why, all things considered, but they found it objectionable to boil a young goat in its own mothers milk. Perhaps it causes illness, they just thought it did or there was some superstition surrounding it? I really don't know.

 

mwc

[R. S. Martin]

Jesus on keeping the Sabbath in Mark 2:27, KJV: The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath.

 

Paul on keeping the Sabbath in Col. 2:16, NRSV: Therefore do not let anyone condemn you in matters of food and drink or of observing festivals, new moons, or sabbaths.

 

These two testimonies of the great heroes of the New Testiment were my consolation when I needed a basis for not going to church while still an Old Order Mennonite. I couldn't tolerate the boredom of church and frequently felt ill until it was too late to go to church. If it worked for a Christian it should most certainly work for exChristians.

[Robbobrob]

There's two sets in the Bible, but the Catholic Church got a third one or how was it again?

 

You can view them on: Ten Commandments

That is very cool. Nice and concise, side by side comparison.