Deva Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 OK, I am visiting my folks in fundyville and just getting up from the dinner table and my dad says "If a person gets saved, they will change." I have no idea what he was talking about before this sentence, but it just irks me on so many different levels. I was really tempted to say "well in what way do they change?" but I know better than to open that can of worms of a conversation with him. You can't reason with a brain washed Baptist deacon. The statement sounds like something out of "The Body Snatchers" or "The Stepford Wives" He/she used to be someone I knew but now they are completely different! I am sure he has heard 10,000 testimonies of people who report that their lives were changed at "testimony time" at the church. Yuck!! Really, in what way were these people suddenly changed for a lifetime by praying the sinner's prayer? What leaped to mind was someone who now knows they now have the truth and are going to heaven whereas the "unsaved" are hellbound. Self-righteousness, hypocrisy, a smug, superior attitude, a false cheerfulness and a closed mind. What changes have you all observed in the "saved"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 They plaster smiles on their faces when they address you, and give glory to god at EVERY opportunity. But other than that, not really very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 A reversion to the peer pressure tactics of childhood and adolescence. Extreme waves of emotion over mundane things. Regular cycles between "highs" and "lows" made worse by aforementioned emotions and the sense of helplessness that is intrinsic with thinking god can, does, and will fix everything wrong with your life WITHOUT you having to do anything more than "trust" him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 What changes? That's easy. They become much better proponents of bullshit, circular arguments and scapegoating. We all know that NOTHING "changes" about Christians. They will SAY that they are "born again" and "new creatures" created in the image of Christ Jeebus, but when we demand that they demonstrate this so-called "perfect" life (in light of all their continued sinfulness), they will cry out "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven!" What an absolute crock of shit. The only thing "perfect" about religion is the perfect blindness they have. You were right not to get into any argument with you dad. All you'd accomplish is humiliating him and burning bridges. (Personally, I'm a staunch advocate of humiliation and burning bridges, but that's just me. ) ~ Checkmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted November 6, 2007 Author Share Posted November 6, 2007 You were right not to get into any argument with you dad. All you'd accomplish is humiliating him and burning bridges. (Personally, I'm a staunch advocate of humiliation and burning bridges, but that's just me. ) ~ Checkmate No point to discussing it, checkmate. They are lifelong fundies. Unless the comment is directed specifically toward me (which this one wasn't) I am determined to keep quiet. I am only here for another 3 days. My mother has her Sunday School materials layed out prominently. Get this, you guys, one of the "study questions" was: How do unbelievers today reflect Adam and Eve's same errors in judgment about moral issues and independence, wishing instead to be free of interference from God? (yes, unbelievers was in bold type). This shit just makes my blood boil-- knowing that is how they view "unbelievers." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 My mother has her Sunday School materials layed out prominently. Get this, you guys, one of the "study questions" was: How do unbelievers today reflect Adam and Eve's same errors in judgment about moral issues and independence, wishing instead to be free of interference from God? (yes, unbelievers was in bold type). This shit just makes my blood boil-- knowing that is how they view "unbelievers." And what, I wonder, are these alleged "errors in judgment about moral issues and independence" (emphasis added)? Even taken in light of christian theology, Adam and Eve only made one error...eating that damn piece of fruit. Or has there been another revelation that revealed how god's "perfect creation" screwed up several more times before the "fall?" Not so perfect after all, eh? "Free of interference from God?"?????? MORON'S (no offense to you)! We've BEEN free of god's interference for AT LEAST 2 millenia...and that's if we postpone common sense long enough to assume that christianity is telling the truth. Even if christianity IS right, god has long since ceased to give a damn about his creation. This makes MY blood boil, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CBenjaminHaag Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Bollocks...at least, my personal experience with Christianity has been. Big, swinging, self-delusional bollocks. I thought I was "saved." I prayed, having spent enough years in and near Evangelicalism to have learned some sense of the whole Jesus-coming-into-your-heart thing (ergh...sounds...messy ), that I'd change, that Jeezus, or whatever amalgam of concepts and wishful thinking and rhetoric I had held up in my mind's eye as "Jesus," would transform my life, enter my heart, infuse my colon, et cetera. At the time I was a few years out of college (which had itself been a largely stressful experience on a number of levels), not particularly sure of what came next, working as a low-paid clerk in a Government office and feeling generally un-hopeful and somewhat pissed off about life. Partly out of youth and inexperience; partly, perhaps, maybe, possibly, as a glimmer of the depression that courses through part of my family's D.N.A.. Either way, I felt discouraged enough about my life, myself, and the future of both to be more than willing to try "Salvation," and so I did. And lo and behold, things began looking up...I began feeling good, I found an interesting job that led to more money, I made more friends...et cetera. To me, and to those who generally shared and bought into the "Testimony" thing... life sucks --> found Jesus --> life is now FUCKING GREAT!! Amen. ...this was a Sign of the Lord Working in My Life. To my guilt driven stepmother, for whom as I would later see religion was a convenient chimera for her own dysfunctionality, it was a Sign That I Should Be Oh So Grateful For All God, AND I, Have Done For You. To me, it was convenient, socially, to believe that God was involved in my life, because my chief concern was a divine force that would bail me out when I fucked up, and more accurately a sense that some ethereal God-force would somehow give me answers to life questions that I lacked the maturity or balls to figure out for myself. So what's the moral of the story? That, fuck people who inject morals into stories. What I learned, in my own little microcosm, is that it's logical to feel more energetic, more hopeful, more active, whatever, when you believe that you have some kind of purpose. Being "saved" was an instant shot of purpose, and thinking that I was thenceforth a Christian charged with Living and Spreading the Word of God, complete with a ready-made ideology and social structure, was simply safer and easier than asking myself who I was, and what I wanted. Had I spent those years asking questions that were actually relevant -- and for one, started therapy a hell of a lot sooner than I did -- who knows what I could have done, seen, experienced...now I am 38, and wishing I had a shitload of years back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 The statement sounds like something out of "The Body Snatchers" or "The Stepford Wives" That's funny you say this, it mirrors a feeling I had once the first time I watched "Left Behind" with kirk cameron. Wife rented it, I was watching it thinking at first it was a disaster movie like "Lost" or "Final Impact". When they got to the part where the one guy was saying, "You have to bend the knee to god etc etc" I thought it was leading to a alien invasion, aliens similar to the "go-a-ould" in stargate movie and series. When my thick head realized what the "movie was really about". I was wondering why this movies didn't help show her how silly the whole xtian thing was... Actually if you want to see first hand how utterly stupid the whole "end times" deal is, watch the movie! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted November 6, 2007 Author Share Posted November 6, 2007 My mother has her Sunday School materials layed out prominently. Get this, you guys, one of the "study questions" was: How do unbelievers today reflect Adam and Eve's same errors in judgment about moral issues and independence, wishing instead to be free of interference from God? (yes, unbelievers was in bold type). This shit just makes my blood boil-- knowing that is how they view "unbelievers." And what, I wonder, are these alleged "errors in judgment about moral issues and independence" (emphasis added)? Even taken in light of christian theology, Adam and Eve only made one error...eating that damn piece of fruit. Or has there been another revelation that revealed how god's "perfect creation" screwed up several more times before the "fall?" Not so perfect after all, eh? I read some more of this junk and it was all about how Satan deceived Adam and Eve and they rebelled against God, a total bunch of trash. I still haven't the slightest idea how "moral issues" entered into it. The main point was that all unbelievers are in rebellion against God. MORONS is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lamb on the lam Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 How do unbelievers today reflect Adam and Eve's same errors in judgment about moral issues and independence, wishing instead to be free of interference from God? (yes, unbelievers was in bold type). Isn't that quaint? Only the "unbelievers" have moral lapses of judgment and morality. Why are they concerned about that? Why does their study lesson not ask, "How do BELIEVERS today reflect Adam and Eve's same errors in judgment about moral issues and independence?" Why aren't they dutifully studying the chronic and constant slip-ups of their own? And how do they know the unbeliever wants "to be free of interference from God?" Heck, maybe the unbeliever would like a little interference from time to time. Then the "unbeliever" would know he really does exist and we could all be one!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted November 6, 2007 Author Share Posted November 6, 2007 Why aren't they dutifully studying the chronic and constant slip-ups of their own? And how do they know the unbeliever wants "to be free of interference from God?" Heck, maybe the unbeliever would like a little interference from time to time. Then the "unbeliever" would know he really does exist and we could all be one!!! Good point, lamb. To be fair, the next study question was "How do believers surrender to the lies of Satan today?" Seems like no one is exempt from Satan's wiles. What a state of mind to be in! They automatically assume that the unbeliever is in rebellion against god, because they don't want god's "interference" so they can do whatever they want. What twisted thinking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 What changes have you all observed in the "saved"? On the more positive aspects, I've seen people get more organized about their lives, calm down, get more peaceful, and have some more functionality. I've also seen just a lot of cracked out crazy stuff like burning books or music, refusing to say certain words, repeating certain words (Praise Jeebus!), trying to convert EVERYBODY they talk to, dressing only a certain way, doing things only a certain way, obsessing over everything Christian related, scrutinizing everything to makes sure it's Christian appropriat...it's a scary neurosis that steps in and takes over and it's scary to watch. Usually though, I see people go crazy more than I see them straighten out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Look at some of what is really being said: Unbelievers are being compared to A&E. We are somehow being "duped" by Satan to participate in his "rebellion" against our rightful "master" YHWH (and son). At the same time we are willingly going along with this because we want to be able to do whatever we like just like one would say rebellious teens or children would do. Ironically we are to be like children if we wish to partake of the kingdom of "god" according to his very own "son." So are we being tricked? Are we knowingly participating with full knowledge? Are we being "childlike" and therefore getting the kingdom? mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Look at some of what is really being said: Unbelievers are being compared to A&E. We are somehow being "duped" by Satan to participate in his "rebellion" against our rightful "master" YHWH (and son). At the same time we are willingly going along with this because we want to be able to do whatever we like just like one would say rebellious teens or children would do. Ironically we are to be like children if we wish to partake of the kingdom of "god" according to his very own "son." So are we being tricked? Are we knowingly participating with full knowledge? Are we being "childlike" and therefore getting the kingdom? mwc You're on to something here. It seems to me that A&E had probably the closest, most personal relationship with god that anyone ever had....Does that mean that we unbelievers would, too? Talk about raising HELL with her parents if she brought this stuff up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Well, it depends on the effects of the brainwashing. Some people do get really into religion and become different people under brainwashing. Depending on the church and how into it they are, they can turn into fundies pretty fast. But, keep in mind that if they change that fast, it's due to them wanting to fit in, not anything superstitious. And most people are fairly normal when they're not in church, it's just the uber-fundies who wear their religion on their sleeve. The fact that your parents' church is actively teaching kids to hate others makes me sad. That kind of institutionalized bigotry was a huge reason why I left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted November 10, 2007 Author Share Posted November 10, 2007 My 5 day visit with my far right-wing Republican, fundamentalist parents has come to an end and I'm back home again. For the sake of my sanity, I decided not to look in the Sunday school book again. My mother has taken to writing down the name and address of her church on each tract (God's Simple Plan of Salvation) that she leaves with the waitresses' tip at each and every restaurant meal we had. I had to hear their repetitious prayers "Keep our family safe" over each and every meal. Xianity is such a fear thing it makes me mad. In any event, such prayers did not prevent my brother from getting leukemia. Should be proof it doesn't work, but hey, the folks wouldn't be interested in proof. The only other comment I had to endure which was comparable to the one I cited in my OP was someone saying "the U.S. government is the best government on earth." Can't say whether that one came from my parents or my far-right-wing, FOX news-loving brother. They were all at the table together and I try to tune out as much as possible. For the record, being republican is not a sin, I have even voted for one occasionally, but we are talking people who would never consider voting for anyone other than a republican. Bush has done a great job, apparently, since I never heard any criticism. There were numerous anti-environmental remarks about how Alaska should be drilled for oil anywhere and everywhere because "the animals don't care." I can't believe I am related to these people. So nice to be back home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosingMyReligion Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 They plaster smiles on their faces when they address you, and give glory to god at EVERY opportunity. But other than that, not really very much. LOL in a nutshell that's it. That weird smile starts to hurt after a years though. I know from personal experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I hurts more if you slap their stupid face every time they Glory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 I can remember when my alcoholic mother found Jeebus. Nothing really changed. If anything, she became even more intensely like herself than she previously was: critical, perfectionist, controlling. What's changed her, for real, has been the passage of time. She's aging, and she's mellowed and become more laid back, more relaxed, probably because she's realized, on some level, that her time here is finite, and she wants to enjoy her life. God has nothing to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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