Bible Equates Liars With Atheists

[R. S. Martin]

In case someone saw it, this was originally part of Post 76 in Cold Spot Could Be Relic Of Big Bang.

 

 

On these forums I was shocked to find out how mainline fundies teach people to lie if that is what is needed to get people into heaven.

 

What I don't get is that they don't take it seriously when Revelation equates liars with atheists. It's in Rev. 21:8. In the unadultrated sacred KJV, the full verse reads:

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

1. most of them are fearful of a wrathful God

2. most of them are atheists as understood in Jesus' time (Greco-Roman empire)

3. and they are abominably hateful to anyone who does not share their beliefs

4. many of them kill Muslim terrorists without hesitation regardless of Jesus' command to turn the other cheek; I guess they are "of little faith" when it comes to God's ability to defend the homeland

5. whoremongers--need we even comment

6. sorcerers: probably not a lot in this day and age but they've got enough other crimes to their name to make up for it

7. idolaters: today the word is bibliolaters

8. all liars: no distinction what the motivation or reason for their lies--if they lied to get people into heaven, it's still a lie and God says they "shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone."

 

This is the "second death." There is no escape. No hope. And there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Forever, eternally lost. And many shall say, Lord, Lord...

 

The Old Order Mennonites have always known that when God said "all liars" he really meant "all" and not just "some." For this reason, they also know who will be the majority population in heaven. After all, so many mainstream Christians (mostly fundies but who would have guessed) promise to come for a bushel or basket of peas next week and never show up. We pick and store those peas and tell other customers that those peas are on order. Only to find them still sitting there at night because the people who placed the order last week never showed up. I learned early on not ever to take an order without also taking a name and phone number.

 

For example, we might be chatting because we met at the store. I'd mention my garden produce business. She might show interest and ask where I live. I explain the exact location.

 

She: Oh I'll be going by there on my way to the cottage next week. I should drop by and get some. Which day are you picking?

 

Me: Normally Thurs. Which day are you going to the cottage?

 

She: Friday after work.

 

Me: How many would you want?

 

She: Oh, maybe just a basket about this size (show with hands)

 

Me: Okay, I can leave a small patch and pick it Friday afternoon for you.

 

She: Oh that would be great!

 

And we part. Never to meet again. I go to all the trouble to keep a basket of peas for her and she never turns up. According to Old Order Mennonite standards, the contract had been complete. She had said how many peas she wanted, and which day, and she had agreed that it would be great if I picked some for her Friday afternoon, which was not my regular picking day. I had been clear that I would be going out of my way for her, the customer. This was the defining mark for our own people: I was changing my work schedule to accomodate her needs; this was definite business talk, not just chit-chat outside the store.

 

Our people had a different standard for honesty in business and too many of them got cheated at least once by outsiders. In worst case scenarios, meat producers have found themselves with hundreds of pounds of fresh meat on hand and the buyer didn't show up. My father used to request a downpayment on meat before taking an order. Others had conscience against this and felt they should trust people. I don't think it happened to the same person twice. Or even in the same neighbourhood. When it happened, they had to go ask all the neighbours to take some of the meat off their hands. Normally this happens in the middle of the summer when no farmer's wife has time to put down meat. But in the name of helping each other in time of need they are obligated to take at least as much as they can manage. And due to the heat there is no putting it off. Takers have to be found that night so they can put it in a cold place for the night and cook it the next day. This can be 10:00 at night for people who have already been up since dawn. That's why it doesn't happen twice. The one to whom it happened knows not to test his neighbours' love this way EVER AGAIN. He is likely to get some advice on how to avoid a repeat. He may get it from a variety of sources. He may be the topic of discussion for a long time to come. Or it may be seen as an act of god.

 

As I said above, this was originally posted on another thread. I posted it in response to the observation that a Christian was lying through his teeth. Given my training in honesty, I cannot stand liars, esp. if they also claim to be extra moral people as in god's darlings a.k.a. Christians. My father used this specific verse as part of his honesty training. He made me feel like I was not honest enough. I lived to realize that as a survival technique I had to be less than totally transparent with him--that there is such a thing as being too honest. It is still my preferred way of being but I like to pick with whom I have my battles.