They Tried To Re-evangelize Me...

[Tabula Rasa]

Rhia, I'm so sorry that happened to you. Hugs

 

I had something similar happen to me a long time ago, but not as intense. My folks had started going to another church when I was about twenty, and one evening the pastor and one of the congration came by the house because I wasn't attending church like I had been. I tried making excuses but I felt like I was being ganged up on, the pastor guilt tripping me. Finally I got them to leave by praying "God, please tell me what I should do" That was enough for them and they finally left. My dad later apologized to me for letting them gang up on me like that. What's funny is he told me a few weeks later the pastor had felt sorry for what he did.

 

It's sad when people think they have to shove their beliefs down your throat , and they can just throw out any kind of civility.

 

Don't let the self righteous bastards get you down! I'd suggest as others have to report this incident to the principal and to find new friends. No one should have to put up with bullshit like that.

[Ex-COG]

What a bunch of manipulative bastards.

[Japedo]

I feel almost literally sick.

 

Rhia,

 

Reading this has brought me back to an emotional place I haven't been in a very long time. Something similar happened to me as well when I was younger. I had people who knew me most of my life, who helped raise me 'cast demons' out of me in a mob mentality fashion over a little hair and makeup. My mother stood by and watched the entire horrific incident go down. At the time she figured she was saving me I guess. What happened to you is mob mentality at it's finest. People become jackals and feel there's power in numbers. The bigger the crowd, the more emotionalism and less thinking that goes on. They were going to beat you down and break you for god. It is this type of mentality that makes it easy to stone people.

 

The hardest thing to accept and deal with is these are not only people who you feel know you, but people you had trust in, respected and cared about. It is an emotional and mind rape what you experienced, Hans is right. We all have a sense of security in our love ones and our friends, when that's breached there isn't any amount of words or advice that can remedy that. It's extremely hard to find your footing after something so tragically blind sides you. All of a sudden it's a feeling that you're truly alone in the world, it is one of the most darkest places I think anyone can be.

 

Know this..

 

You're not alone. These jackals who disguised themselves as your friends are no such thing. You find out who your true friends are, when you stand polar opposite of them ideology wise and the love and accept you even when they disagree. It is easy to surround themselves with everyone who thinks and acts like them. They can only deal with emotional yes men, anything other then that they crack. Your lone voice of reason in the sea of insanity has them running like the roaches they are. They are shallow and extremely insecure people. Their god seems to quiver and shake when held up to the slightest questions. Xtians also often talk about their house being built on Rock, funny how it sinks like a stone when any critical thinking is applied to their belief. Their beliefs are built like a house of cards, the slightest wind of disagreement and it falls.

 

They are not required to think, only required to obey. Their love = hate when it's all said and done. They have no tools to love, to be tolerant or to be kind. They are the epitome of the evil they love to talk about, they are what they hate.

 

Treat these people like the abusers that they are. I wouldn't acknowledge their existence. Even if they offer up an apology I'd keep walking. Don't put yourself in a situation where they have the upper hand or where they can corner you. Can you possibly put in for a transfer to a secular school, is that in the realm of possibility's? I can not stress how sorry I am this has happened to you. I wish I was there to defend you!!

 

Please give us an update as to how your day's going.

[Monk]

I share everyone else's horror and outrage.

 

I must say, this sounds dangerous to me...I'm glad they didn't have any rocks/sticks/liftable chairs handy with which to pummel you. That kind of mob mentality has lead to physical (as well as mental) abuse countless times in the past.

 

I'd say watch yourself and avoid this topic at your school at all costs.

[Rhia]

Thank you everyone.

 

I'm currently writing to you from my campus' library - a safe place where we can barely speak above a whisper, much less confront people for their beliefs.

 

I made it through class last night, after going to a completely separate friend's dorm (one not involved in the mob, and who was totally disgusted) and she make me watch some really sick comedian to cheer me up. (Can't remember the guy's name, only something about "monster rain"... I was really too upset to care.)

 

I graduate from this place in a month, so I know it wont be worth it to go to the Dean, especially the Dean of Students, who is an arrogant bastard to everyone. I will be happy when the day comes that I can show my mom my degree and move on with my life.

 

Unfortunately, neither of my two moms are the people I can go for to deal with this. The one paying for my college education is a full-out Evangelical radical by now, since she's gotten re-married. My other mom would definitely get angry - angry enough to over-react and call the Dean for me (I don't want others fighting my battles); or to send a mob of angry drag-queens (she's threatened it before).

 

I hope I did the right thing in my reaction, although looking back on it now, I probably had it coming. What really had gotten all of them angry was my comment regarding free will (it had snowballed to that from the Fall by then) in which I said "I'm screwed no matter what way I go. If everything's true, I either re-accept a religion and a god that caused me utter pain and misery, or I die and burn in hell; so I really don't have much of a choice either way. If your god really is as real as you claim, why would he want to inflict so much pain on me? The only solution to that I can think of is that if your god exists, he's cruel, sadistic, and evil."

 

It was really the only thing I could think of to say when being grilled as to "why?". I will say this much: I refused to cry in front of them, to show any weakness. To have burst into tears in front of them would have been taken with this crowd as a "stirring" of my spirit, or that they were getting to me and would think that I was becoming weak in my disbelief. I did not, and will not, give them the satisfaction of thinking they won a spiritual battle over me. They may think they won a war of words by mobbing me, but all they did was inundate me with their stupidity.

 

Luckily, my adviser is on my side in this case. She knows me, she knows I don't try to deconvert people left and right. I plan to go talk to her once Wednesday morning chapel is finished (which luckily for me, is not mandatory). Maybe she'll know what I can and cannot do regarding the administration.

 

No matter what happens from here on in, I'm taking a huge evaluation of the people I know; and deciding whether or not it's worth it to be friends with Christians so willing to hurt people.

[Ouroboros]

Well said Rhia,

 

I wish you luck, and you're doing the right thing.

 

Yet another strange thing with religious people, consider the situation that the won that "battle". Lets say you gave up and suddenly re-converted because you were intimidated. Where is the free will then, if you are mind-raped and forced against your emotions and will, broken down and nowhere to go, to convert to Christianity? Would that really make you a "good" or "true" Christian that really believed in Jezombie and the posse and go to Heaven? Shouldn't free will be used when it is free to choose instead of forced? It's utter stupidity when they do things like that. If they lose they lose, but if they won... they'd still lose! I'm sorry, I still feel like hitting them with a clue-X-4.

[Vigile]

I did not, and will not, give them the satisfaction of thinking they won a spiritual battle over me. They may think they won a war of words by mobbing me, but all they did was inundate me with their stupidity.

 

Good for you.

 

Years ago when I was "on fire" with the bug, I went street witnessing with a group of 5-6 friends. One of the guys in our group was able to strike up a conversation with a young man (probably 16-17 yo - we were 20-30). He agreed to go to Denny's and discuss the bible over cofee. The kid was quite intelligent and he argued points of contradiction in scripture that I had never heard before. I sat off to the side and listened while he argued intelligently while my friends badgered him with scripture and emotional appeals. At some point my friends became frustrated with him and just started throwing out random scripture at him as if they were weapons. I know what they were thinking. The were thinking that the HS would use the words and that they would not return void. In reality, their position was so weak in the face of a strong challenge that they had nothing to offer.

 

I found myself utterly sickened by my friend's behavior and ended up siding with the kid in defense. Following, I was treated as somewhat of an outsider in the group and treated as if I were somehow tainted.

 

Long story short. I made a determination after that night to never share my faith again until I understood exactly what I believed and why. This began a long period of examining my beliefs, which subsequently eroded one by one over the years.

 

So, you never know who might have been lurking in the shadow's yesterday. Not that that would make it worth it or easier to take.

[R. S. Martin]

Vigile, I like your story and I think it is relevant to Rhia's situation. It tells me that truth can and does defend itself, but that some religious folks ain't got the truth. Some do and you were one of them. Rhia is not religious and she's got the truth, too. The truth is that truth-lovers seek with an open mind and respect for the right of others. The combination of respect for others (feeling) and truth (intellectual concept one holds of life) anchors one emotionally and intellectually so that one does not "blow with every wind of doctrine." It also opens one to new ideas and experiences that allow one to grow both emotionally and intellectually on the stuff that is real.

[Robbobrob]

Jumping in late just to say, "oh man, that was some disgusting behavior on their part." Don't know how I would have handled it back in school.

 

Regardless of what you said, they had no right screaming and surrounding you. It should have continued as a conversation, not turned into a bully-session.

 

Real friends are the ones who stand beside you, even when you are wrong. To take the side of an idea or concept over a real person always disturbs me.

[Guest lamb on the lam]

I want to go to this school. I want to walk on campus and find these "friends" of yours. I will bring with me a stack of ARMY recruiting brochures. I will then ask your friends if they would consider serving their country (that they love so much) as well as their God. I will tell them they only need to serve their country for 2-4 years. Then I will listen to all their excuses about "other priorities" and "called to do something else", etc. and then I will remind them that "Freedom is not free". I will proceed to ask them why they feel entitled, and exempt from serving a country they think is the greatest country in the world.....a Christian country. I'll listen to all their patriotic expressions like, "Well, I really admire anyone who serves in the military", etc. and I'll watch the body language. I'll watch them shift from one foot to another and I'll look into those eyes that reveal a mind trying to figure out a way to get off this topic and escape my presence. But I won't go away. I'll follow them to their class room and tell their instructor how I would love to sit in and listen because I'm thinking of sending my little Johnny to this wonderful God-fearing school, and then I'll sit behind one of these friends of yours and stare a hole in the back of their head. I'll hum softly, "Onward Christian Soldiers". Then, of course, I'll have to follow one or all of these good kids to the restroom, and to the lunch room and out to the parking lot. You get my idea, don't you?

 

For every non-Christian young person who gets harassed about not accepting Jesus into their life, I will harass every Christian youth about not joining the military, especially in light of the fact that they all believe this is a just war and that we are in for the fight of our lives against Islamic fundamentalism. They should all be eager, EAGER to take up arms and fight. What could be a better calling?

 

So, just give me your campus address and I'm on my way.

[R. S. Martin]

Thank you everyone.

 

I'm currently writing to you from my campus' library - a safe place where we can barely speak above a whisper, much less confront people for their beliefs.

 

I made it through class last night, after going to a completely separate friend's dorm (one not involved in the mob, and who was totally disgusted) and she make me watch some really sick comedian to cheer me up. (Can't remember the guy's name, only something about "monster rain"... I was really too upset to care.)

 

Thanks for the update. I'm so glad you have other friends.

 

I graduate from this place in a month, so I know it wont be worth it to go to the Dean, especially the Dean of Students, who is an arrogant bastard to everyone. I will be happy when the day comes that I can show my mom my degree and move on with my life.

 

Unfortunately, neither of my two moms are the people I can go for to deal with this. The one paying for my college education is a full-out Evangelical radical by now, since she's gotten re-married. My other mom would definitely get angry - angry enough to over-react and call the Dean for me (I don't want others fighting my battles); or to send a mob of angry drag-queens (she's threatened it before).

 

I keep being amazed at the clear-headed brilliant mind you demonstrate, given the moms you're dealing with. Must be some bright genes in your ancestory somewhere. Anyway, you seem to know the parameters within which you're working. You're definitely on the right track.

 

I hope I did the right thing in my reaction, although looking back on it now, I probably had it coming. What really had gotten all of them angry was my comment regarding free will (it had snowballed to that from the Fall by then) in which I said "I'm screwed no matter what way I go. If everything's true, I either re-accept a religion and a god that caused me utter pain and misery, or I die and burn in hell; so I really don't have much of a choice either way. If your god really is as real as you claim, why would he want to inflict so much pain on me? The only solution to that I can think of is that if your god exists, he's cruel, sadistic, and evil."

 

It was really the only thing I could think of to say when being grilled as to "why?".

 

You stood up for your "faith," which is what they would do, too. If a bunch of nonChristians at a secular university treated them halfway like they treated you, we know what the outcome would be. A scandal would be on the way to the White House by now. Or maybe not quite that bad but you get my meaning. But since you're the despised unbeliever and they are god's darlings they automatically consider it their right to do with you as they please. After all, the Ruler of the Universe is on their side. So they think. D I S G U S T I N G.

 

It seems you "had it coming" for only one reason: this has degenerated to a power struggle on their part. They are determined to overpower you and force you into the kingdom of heaven. Someone mentioned the quality of Christians that come by forced conversion. This is something I've thought about quite a bit. A look at history shows that Christendom came into being mainly through forced conversions. The common masses of Europe and Russia were "converted" at the point of the sword by mass baptisms in rivers by military command with the army present.

 

As we know, folk religion did not die; it got Christianized and incorporated into what is today traditional orthodox Christianity as in Christmas and Easter and Halloween. Halloween may be more contraversial but I understand it's part of the tradition. My point here is: What message got incorporated as a result of the forced mass conversions? Is this why Christianity is so militant? Is this why it so easily takes on the mob mentality to spiritually/mentally/emotionally rape anyone who deviates? Actually, the rape can also take place on a one-on-one basis, but my point is that they are quite willing to stop at nothing. I am thinking perhaps this is the answer to the question re what quality of Christian comes out of forced conversion, i.e. the type of Christian who will kill in the name of the Lord to cleanse the earth of unbelievers.

 

Paul says in the NT that he doesn't care how people are saved so long as they are saved. Josh McDowell says the same. I think this student mob follows suit. I repeat: D I S G U S T I N G.

 

When morals annd ethics go out the window for some other purpose I think it's time to take a mighty close look at this "other purpose."

[Mongo]

Rhia,

 

Sorry you had to endure that. I think you did so with grace and honour.

 

I think you are a very courageous person to stick it out in that university. You are especially courageous to have dropped your shields to engage the beasts in their own den. You seem to have what I would call a quiet moxie. Kudos!

 

From the responses it is clear that this mob mentality is at the heart and soul of fundamentalism. If you are not in their "club", you are at risk of being ostracized or persecuted anytime that someone on their side draws a line between you and them. That includes those side with you. This is classic Coersive Pursuasion, without which fundamentalists cannot survive.

 

I think you've figured it out and know your direction. Good luck!

 

Mongo

[Vigile]

I want to go to this school. I want to walk on campus and find these "friends" of yours. I will bring with me a stack of ARMY recruiting brochures. I will then ask your friends if they would consider serving their country (that they love so much) as well as their God. I will tell them they only need to serve their country for 2-4 years. Then I will listen to all their excuses about "other priorities" and "called to do something else", etc. and then I will remind them that "Freedom is not free". I will proceed to ask them why they feel entitled, and exempt from serving a country they think is the greatest country in the world.....a Christian country. I'll listen to all their patriotic expressions like, "Well, I really admire anyone who serves in the military", etc. and I'll watch the body language. I'll watch them shift from one foot to another and I'll look into those eyes that reveal a mind trying to figure out a way to get off this topic and escape my presence. But I won't go away. I'll follow them to their class room and tell their instructor how I would love to sit in and listen because I'm thinking of sending my little Johnny to this wonderful God-fearing school, and then I'll sit behind one of these friends of yours and stare a hole in the back of their head. I'll hum softly, "Onward Christian Soldiers". Then, of course, I'll have to follow one or all of these good kids to the restroom, and to the lunch room and out to the parking lot. You get my idea, don't you?

 

For every non-Christian young person who gets harassed about not accepting Jesus into their life, I will harass every Christian youth about not joining the military, especially in light of the fact that they all believe this is a just war and that we are in for the fight of our lives against Islamic fundamentalism. They should all be eager, EAGER to take up arms and fight. What could be a better calling?

 

So, just give me your campus address and I'm on my way.

 

Very nice. Why the hell don't you post more often?

[Grandpa Harley]

Lamb,

 

You are a creature of EVIL... I admire that in a man...

 

GH

[Guest lamb on the lam]

Lamb,

 

You are a creature of EVIL... I admire that in a man...

 

Well actually, I'm not a creature of EVIL. I'm a rabid mother bear. Too many sons (3) have joined the Army. Two at age 17 and one at age 19. The middle son went to Ira

[Guest lamb on the lam]

oops, hit some bad something. As I was saying, my middle son went to Iraq a Christian and came back an Atheist. Now, my youngest son is there. I'm getting the impression he's coming back an Atheist as well. I'm just pissed at all these patriotic, young Christians who wrap themselves in the flag, glorifying Armageddon but only as long as someone else does the dirty work.

[Grandpa Harley]

But you do it with style... and sorry about the sex change

[ShackledNoMore]

I hope I did the right thing in my reaction, although looking back on it now, I probably had it coming. What really had gotten all of them angry was my comment regarding free will (it had snowballed to that from the Fall by then) in which I said "I'm screwed no matter what way I go. If everything's true, I either re-accept a religion and a god that caused me utter pain and misery, or I die and burn in hell; so I really don't have much of a choice either way. If your god really is as real as you claim, why would he want to inflict so much pain on me? The only solution to that I can think of is that if your god exists, he's cruel, sadistic, and evil."

Nope, they were still totally out of line. They were the ones grilling you as to "why." You gave the best answer you could think of. I could think of more scathing responses than your observation about god . xians out fishing routinely make bold, arrogant, and tactless (and unsupported/wrong) claims to/about their marks. Why is it OK for them to speak bluntly when it's not for you?

No matter what happens from here on in, I'm taking a huge evaluation of the people I know; and deciding whether or not it's worth it to be friends with Christians so willing to hurt people.

It looks like your other friend demonstrated herself as much more of a friend than those in the mob.

[Fweethawt]

But you do it with style... and sorry about the sex change

Now THAT was evil...

 

 

 

 

 

[Thurisaz]

oops, hit some bad something. As I was saying, my middle son went to Iraq a Christian and came back an Atheist. Now, my youngest son is there. I'm getting the impression he's coming back an Atheist as well. I'm just pissed at all these patriotic, young Christians who wrap themselves in the flag, glorifying Armageddon but only as long as someone else does the dirty work.

 

You know, some weeks ago, just for fun, I attended a service of our local 7th day morons, err, adventists. I was allowed to be present at their youth group meeting too (wonder whether they need another young'uns'indoctrinator, or why did they offer me that? ), and the then-speaker said the true words "It's easy to be a christian when you're only among other christians".

 

Guess that's somewhat similar to what your boys went through, no?

 

(EDIT - not to claim that confrontation with a tough debate opponent is remotely similar to what your boys have to endure in Iraq... the principle might be similar, but the sheer hardship they have to endure is much more than those people over here will have to suffer. Just adding that so that you don't misunderstand me)

 

That said, after that service I approached the speaker and told her that I'm a "skeptic" (no need to announce my faith to them right now) and that I thought her words were very true. I offered to present some "real challenges to your belief, if I'm welcome to do so". She agreed.

 

Whenever that might be, it could become a very interesting experience Does she imagine, remotely even, what monster she invited to the youth group?

 

Okay, back on topic before I hijack the thread

[Thurisaz]

It looks like your other friend demonstrated herself as much more of a friend than those in the mob.

 

My thoughts exactly. As the saying goes, a friend is a true friend if she's there for you when you're not happy.

[R. S. Martin]

As the saying goes: A friend in need is a friend indeed.

[BlueGiant]

A bit late, I know, but still...

 

Though I agree it sucks that you were on the receiving end of a dog-pile, I'd like to point out that you still stood your ground and didn't cave. That speaks very highly for you, and I'm glad to see you at the least rode it out, yourself intact.