Admin webmdave Posted November 17, 2007 Admin Share Posted November 17, 2007 By Scott Calling all atheists, agnostics, religious people, Christians, Hindus, Islam, Buddhists, Jewish, secular or religious, Wiccans, spiritualists, near death experiencers, philosophers, artists or poets -- what is the meaning of life? I know, I know, the most important and colossal issue of are time and throughout history. But wait before you answer, I need to throw a wrench into the works. My ten year old son Connor died from a heart attack related to leukemia. See my testimonial: Where are you, God? When we were in the intensive care unit at Children's Hospital we were thrust into a chamber of horrors. Our son was unconscious, hooked up to every machine imaginable and the only thing that was more nightmarish was seeing the horror, in the face of my wife, when my son coughed up blood before he was admitted to intensive care. The Doctor told us that my son's heart rate and breathing were that of a marathon runner, running consecutive marathons. Walking through a children's intensive care ward is a horror show beyond comparison. No horror movie or Halloween, haunted house could ever come close. My wife and I walked by so many children from babies to teens, tethered to machines, that to our eyes looked of medieval torture devices. The week my son was in intensive care they shut the ward down twice to perform open heart surgery on a three month old. Later we would learn that baby did not make it nor did the baby of a couple we befriended in the waiting room who we would eventually see at our monthly meetings at Compassionate Friends. And remember the horror I saw in my wife's face, that horror was plastered in the woebegone eyes of everyone in the waiting room, an observation that made me realize I was wearing the same face. With this information, my son dying at ten years old and he only represents any child in the world who has died and any baby who was born to die -- What possible meaning can we assign to life; these children didn't even get a chance to experience life, What purpose or meaning to life could there possibly be when children lives are cut so short? http://exchristian.net/exchristian/2007/11/life.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 This is the age old question isn't it? The most logical answer as to why we are here is very simple and basic. We live to survive and reproduce. As part of the cycle of life, it is nearly every creature of any species *goal* to reproduce. And in most animals, nature has a way of ensuring better genetics get passed on. Like only the strongest most healthiest survive. Animals do battle sometimes to determine who will be the "pack leader". This is a natural way to make sure better genes get carried on, and weaker ones fail. It's a dance of evolution that most, if not ALL creatures participate in. So its simple. Life is about carrying on life. The whole of the species outweighs the needs of the individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Dear Scott, First and foremost my condolences to you for the loss of your son. I could spout all sorts of poetic terms about the impermanence of life, how we should treasure each moment of a fleeting existence, and even suggest that even in his short time here your son changed your life and became part of your existence. Do you have any reason to believe me? Unfortunately, the meaning of life is not something that anyone can just tell you. Guidance and support, yes, but meaning is all on you. Sorry. R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 I answered in Blog space. To make a meta comment here, Scott is in the long dark night part of loss. And, anyone who has not only lost a loved one, but had the responsibility of caring for them, has a stew of feelings... anger, helplessness, guilt because they 'failed' to look after the loved one... a real witch's brew. Most people here know my story, so I ain't writing it again... but here's what I 'know' The loss doesn't get easier, you just get used to it. You always did the best you could with the information available. You didn't fail anyone Don't get so wrapped in your own pain that you forget other folk you love are hurting too. If you need to talk, but people around you don't want to, then support groups do work. If you don't want to talk, but people around you do, don't be afraid to point them at a support group. Anger will kill you in the long run. Like an opiate to numb physical pain, anger works for a while, but if you use it too long it will use you in the end. Be patient with people offering advice. They are trying to help even if they're just being a bloody nuisance. However, if they start insisting you follow it, don't have a qualm to rip them a new arse hole and spit up it. When advice becomes a 'taking liberties' then you're within your rights. You can always say sorry later. If I think of anything else I'll post it here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lamb on the lam Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Scott, I read your earlier testimonial and could not find words sufficient (or worthy enough) for you to read. There is truly no sorrow greater than that of losing a child, and especially a young child. None of my 3 sons have died, but I have lived with the absolute horror of that fear. My second son was almost killed on 4 separate occasions between 2003-2004 and it wasn't until faced with that reality that Christianity (or religion under any name) lost it's appeal and relevance in my life. I am living with this same fear again (losing a son) now as my youngest son is in Iraq. He is witnessing and experiencing things I never prepared him for in this life, and his blogs are beginning to indicate the same question you now ask, "What is the meaning of life?" He is 21. He has witnessed the death of a 7 year old girl who was just playing in the street. He has had to throw himself on the writhing, bleeding body of a wounded Iraqi whose screams could not be silenced. When I hear about the horror-of-the-day in Iraq, I wonder too about meaning. Perhaps if all we accomplish in this life is to bring some compassion to or empathy for those of us who remain, we can find some meaning for the day. But a universal meaning is something that eludes me. I'm sorry I have no answer for you...just my own, awkward thoughts on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skiergirl24 Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Scott, You feel the same way as I am feeling. I don't think there is a God, but if there is, I think he is a collossal dickwad and I will personally beat the living snot out of him on judgement day. I lost my mom, at age 60, over the summer. I cannot compare it to losing a child but I imagine losing your child would be a thousand times worse! Still, losing my mom made me chuck all my beliefs out the window. why are all my 20-something friends going to have a mom to help them prepare for their weddings, babysit their kids, give them advice and I won't? I have to say I have been a GOOD PERSON all my life...reached out to others, I really do not have a mean bone in my body - yet god totally failed me. Osama Bin Laden is walking around and your son and my mom are dead. WTF?? And I agree with you about the stupid things people say. I have become sick of my friends because they are all believers. It's easy to believe in God when things go your way and the worst loss you have experienced is a 2nd cousin dying or losing your 80-something grandparents. I want to smack them in the face when they say shit like "God has a plan and he is not malicious." Well of course THEY don't think he malicious because they have had it easy. Everyone has shit to deal with in life - that is true. But some of us have more than our fair share...some people really get "fucked" by life. The meaning of life? I don't know. I have had second thoughts about even continuing my own life at times. It all seems like a farce...everything I have ever known was ripped away from me and I am left treading water. I cannot say anything to console you and I don't want to get wrapped up in my own grief, this post is about you. I am so sorry for your loss...cyberhugs. Maura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tealeaf Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Life is just a combination of inevitability and chance. There's no ryhme or reason to it. I guess people can't stand to think that they are just as insignificant as a rock flying through, space hence creating a god and what not. What happened here truly blows, but what can you do? At least the kid got 10 years. That's more than than the other 400 or so eggs and probably topping the TRILLIONS of sperm by this time in "Scott's", got to live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 I bet you're a laugh a minute at funerals... Shame the idea of 'appropriate' is such an alien concept... You remind me of me when I was older and knew more... an unutterable, loudmouthed, self satisfied arse wipe, not happy unless spreading misery to bask in the general schadenfreude of 'At least it ain't me! WOOHOO!!!!' Now and let people who know something say something God preserve us from Evangelical Nihilists... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPw4 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 the meaning of life is........... to live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstInTheDance Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Hi Scott, I am sorry for the loss of your son. If you want to know the meaning of your son's life, you must find it within. It is up to you, your wife, and those who knew and loved your son, to give his life meaning. What did he mean to you? How did his life affect YOU? What did you learn from him? What will you take away from the experience of having known him? Maybe there is a Higher Power. Maybe there is a "Master Plan" and some greater "Meaning of Life." However, since people have been asking these questions since the dawn of time, it is likely there isn't. All we can do is decide what our lives and our loved ones' lives mean to US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Hello, I am sorry to hear about your son. There are not enough words to express this. What I can do is write about what I have found, and hope that it helps some. The meaning I have found for life is living. However, I don't think that living means just to exist. Living is more than just existing. It is also enjoying those things that which we take for granted all too often -- the stars in the night sky, a beautiful sunset, the autumn leaves, the flowers on a walk, etc. It is also enjoying those things which we don't take for granted. It is dancing, it is singing, it is creating, it is doing whatever you love to do. That is different for each of us. It is also about helping out your fellow humans. One does not need to be a Christian to do charitable things. If nobody ever helped each other out, where would we be as a society? Most people, I think, do not help each other out enough. If we helped more, I think the world would be a much better place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemon Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Scott, You experienced what is probably the worst thing any parent can. To watch your child suffer and then to see him lifeless is beyond devastating. I can only imagine that you spent time praying and praying to avoid this horror only to find it happen anyway. No matter what anyone tells you, you have every right to question and even be angry. I don't know that the meaning of life can be discovered so soon after a tragedy. It may be best to communicate with people who have experienced the loss of a child and found the strength to "live" again. They could explain to you exactly how and where they found the meaning of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tealeaf Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 I bet you're a laugh a minute at funerals... Shame the idea of 'appropriate' is such an alien concept... You remind me of me when I was older and knew more... an unutterable, loudmouthed, self satisfied arse wipe, not happy unless spreading misery to bask in the general schadenfreude of 'At least it ain't me! WOOHOO!!!!' Now and let people who know something say something God preserve us from Evangelical Nihilists... Excuse me? So, you have some better explaination? Forgive me, but I missed that part.... All I see is you you yelling at the kids to "get off the damn lawn," whilst waving your walking stick.... By all means if you have something to put me in the ground with, go right ahead! But don't just tell me to shut the fuck up.... And yeah, wasn't very 'polite' but I noticed "Scott" did not actually make the post so I didn't think anyone would be too directly offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 IF you fancy a pissing match, foetus, I'm game... otherwise, take Uncle Bob's advice and try sticking to shit you know about... I'm sick enough of Chrisitian loudmouth know nothings without the Nihilist posturings of a child... so fuck off and die, preferably in pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tealeaf Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 IF you fancy a pissing match, foetus, I'm game... otherwise, take Uncle Bob's advice and try sticking to shit you know about... I'm sick enough of Chrisitian loudmouth know nothings without the Nihilist posturings of a child... so fuck off and die, preferably in pain. And I suppose you have much wisdom to offer? How do you know what I know? And don't call me a Nihilist, I've looked into into a few times in the past, it's not me. ....Just sharing thought ya? I've got a step stool in the closet I used to use to turn off my light at night when I was 6, you can borrow it if you need a hand off your high-horse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 I've taken a special interest in Tealeaf because in his first post he mentioned living in my part of the country. Here's some background: 1. age: 18 2. religion: never been religious, Christian or otherwise 3. lifestyle habits: under-age drinking and running from cops This information, in addition to other details, was gathered from various posts. Tealeaf's posts in this thread give me the impression that Tealeaf is probably not the kind of person who would give up a seat on the bus for another person even though the need were pretty obvious. Tealeaf is too young, naive, and inexperienced to realize that by discounting Scott's pain he discounts the pain of every other person who has been in any way "responsible" for someone's death--whether that person was a parent, other relative, friend, patient, whatever. Understandably, such insensitivity is not appreciated, especially on a "funeral" thread. I am happy to say that this town has produced young peole who are more mature than Tealeaf. All the same, 18 is very young and there is hope for Tealead. As part of the learning experience, Tealeaf may want to apologize to Grandpa Harley for his couse insensitivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 And I suppose you have much wisdom to offer? Grandpa Harley has much wisdom to offer. Read his several thousand posts. How do you know what I know? The out-of-context crap you have been posting in this thread tells us what you think/know about life and death and compassion for the bereaved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tealeaf Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 And I suppose you have much wisdom to offer? Grandpa Harley has much wisdom to offer. Read his several thousand posts. How do you know what I know? The out-of-context crap you have been posting in this thread tells us what you think/know about life and death and compassion for the bereaved. Ha! I feel ....stalked? All he had to say was "I'm offended" straight up, without insults and I'd apologize. To Harley: Sorry man! Guess you took what I meant a little too seriously.... When one of the most broad questions known is asked, I can't help but be a wise ass. sorry again....it is the internet after all Which brings me to the whole stupid things I've mentioned other places, I assure you that's far from all that my life is comprised of. I'd just preffer to come off as more of a loose cannon in a uptight place. And yeah, I'm young, ya I do immature shit but no, that doesn't mean I'm completely ignorant. I've read a lot of stuff on here and can relate to a good chunk of it, have seen the flipside of it, have done it or have witnessed what it can do. Including death and that which is related. No, not death of my own child. I apologize again. Oh, and I stand 80% of the time on the bus - when I use it - and I always move to the back when someone with a stroller or wheelchair comes aboard. Anyway, back to topic, anyone with a bone to pick can PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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