trashy Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 This has really been bugging me lately. Allegiance. The history of this term dates back to the time of lords and kings. If you were born in their jurisdiction you were expected to serve them at their whim. What part does allegiance have in a democratic republic? Governmental representatives serve US. WE elect them. There is no king or lord over me. And why should I have to recite a pledge of my allegiance to, of all things, a piece of cloth? Why should I have to recite a pledge to my country every time I turn around? Why can't one pledge suffice? Why can't I just be a citizen and a human in this world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 To me, the U.S. is a convenient place to stay for now (financially, I have little choice), but if I ever have a good reason (and the means) to leave... I won't think twice about it. The whole concept of "patriotism" just rubs me wrong. One thing I can thank the Bush administration for is teaching me the value of "patriotism". It's nothing more than a political tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 That may be how YOU see it, but most people using the word 'patriot' these days are using it in support of despotism. It's just a word- a convenient label used as a political tool. The Patriot Act was a very successful application of the tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsmoke Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 To me, the U.S. is a convenient place to stay for now (financially, I have little choice), but if I ever have a good reason (and the means) to leave... I won't think twice about it. The whole concept of "patriotism" just rubs me wrong. One thing I can thank the Bush administration for is teaching me the value of "patriotism". It's nothing more than a political tool. You and me both. I used to think there was a difference between patriotism and nationalism. While my inner linguist still wants to make some kind of semantic distinction, practically speaking I'm forced to admit they're essentially synonyms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trashy Posted November 27, 2007 Author Share Posted November 27, 2007 As I see it, the pledge of allegiance is simply saying you are loyal to the nation, not some lord or king, not a particular government, not some decision of a government. You can be loyal to your country without being in agreement with the government. As I see it, a nation will be around longer than that particular regime. Being loyal to your country means you hold to the ideals the country was founded upon. If you do not, you may seriously wish to emmigrate. I happen to agree with the ideals of the constitution of the United States even if it has not entirely lived up to it. I hope I make sense. Yes, that is the nature of the 'pledge' - but why do we insist that school children recite it EVERY GOD DAMNED DAY? Recitations, incantations and creeds are the surest evidence of insecurity. Can't I just live here without re-stating every day that I am still in allegiance? How would you feel if your wife insisted that you repeat your wedding vows every day? I know how I would feel, I would begin to think she was either highly insecure or that she thought I was completely untrustworthy and was in need of being closely watched. That level of insecurity and distrust coming from my government makes me nervous. One more thing while I'm on the topic. Patriotism and sacrifice for one's country are often touted as reasons for why I should 'support' the military. Well I have a news flash for you, the last time someone died actually defending the soil of the United States from an enemy attack was Pearl Harbor. My dad served during the Korean War but that was a strategic war, not a defense of our mainland. Same for Vietnam. Same for Iraq (both times). I am willing to give the Afghanistan campaign an exception, but still there was no direct defense repelling invaders. And I can say all that while still maintaining my loyalty and believing in the sanctity of our Constitution. You will have to forgive the sternness of my words. I don't consider myself a liberal so these thoughts don't come easy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 I'm convinced saying the pledge is very harmful. It's indoctrinating young boys to grow up to be young men that don't ask questions when their Commander and Cheif asks them to run around the globe defending half-baked policy. It's dangerous to the health and well being of the young men and it's dangerous to the world that the US has an unthinking population and mind boggling military power. With power comes responsibility. An indoctrinated, patriotic population is not responsible. As I stated in another thread on this subject. The goosebumps you feel at the baseball game when the anthem is played has a direct link back to daily pledges and other indoctrinations you experienced in first grade. I'm aware of it, disgusted by it, and yet I still get the goosebumps. Emotion doesn't need reason to act and is most often a more powerful force than reason. The pledge breeds a nation whose patriotism is triggered by jingoisms and this is not good for anyone but a few at the top who need unquestioning obedience to carry out their policy. Not that the US is following a unique path here. Nationalism is at least as old as the Roman Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 For the time being THIS is the only "Pledge" that I use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Burned, how you interpret the pledge and the actuall effect it has on most people are two entirely different things. It's effect is emotional. This is why they start when kids are still at a stage in life that they can't reason out the issues. Anyway, stand with the country. I'm not an internationalist or a nationalist. I'm just an individualist; namely me and my family. I don't stand with any country. They can't count me as loyal or disloyal. I won't harm her nor will I stand with her. Nationalism never did any nation or the world any good. It has only given willing fodder to the cannons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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