oladotun Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Over the past few weeks, a number of high profile televangelists have been under fire for their lavish lifestyle that stems from the so-called prosperity gospel. A Republican Senator, Charles Grassley of Iowa, is investigating 6 of these televangelists; in an unrelated incident, the son of Oral Roberts, Richard Roberts, is also under fire for his exorbitant living and his facing litigation by some former teachers at Oral Roberts University who say that their former boss misappropriated funds. Richard Roberts has now resigned as president of the University, saying that “God insisted†that he do so. The 6 ministers under investigation by the Senate are Kenneth Copeland, Paula White, Eddie Long, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyers and Creflo Dollar (you could not make that up, his last name is really Dollar, and he lives up to it. His ministry is reported to have brought in about $69 million in 2006, but he told Larry King that he spends his own money). I think for the most part, churches have become businesses which disguise themselves as “non-profit†organizations. What is sad about it, is that even though these preachers will openly deny that they are in it for the money, they are being highly disingenuous because when you point out all the references that Jesus made to giving money to the poor, they will say something crazy like “well, he only wanted them to do that as a seed sown, so that they would get a bigger financial reward.†If this is not a scam, I don’t know what is. You will find really no difference between the way some of these preachers live and some CEOs’ of Fortune 500 companies live. I am not mad at them for getting rich, I just wish they were not so insincere about their motives. Of course, the preachers will tell you that it is not about the money, but IT IS about the money, otherwise they would not preach their ever popular “sow financial seed (code for “give to their ministryâ€) to reap a financial harvest/reward in your life.†I remember, back in my fundie days, I paid my tithes consistently, and never saw this “windfall†that they kept talking about. I even once wrote one of the above ministries during a very trying time for me financially, asking if they could help, and their answer to me was that I should “sow†a financial seed to their ministry and God would bless me. This is one of the reasons (amongst many others) why I became strongly disillusioned with religion, it is all a big sham and people have the wool pulled over their eyes. These popular preachers are making themselves rich off of the lives of vulnerable people who would not dare question these “preachers†because to do so would be heresy and “questioning Godâ€. It is sad, but true. These high profile ministers claim that they spend their “own†money and not the church’s money, but where do they get that money from if not from tithes and offerings? Utter hogwash!! What has your experience been like when it comes to observing the church’s relationship with money? See the attached article for more details. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/06/...in3456977.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 I'm glad they're being investigated. I don't have a problem with people being well-off, but I don't doubt that these guys are living far, FAR beyond "well-off". When you live off the giving of others, why should you then live so far in excess of those who support you? Not to mention, what about the Bible verses regarding not loving the things of this world, not building up your treasures on earth, and the impossibility of a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven? I guess they have "other" interpretations of those verses revealed to them by the holy spook... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South2003 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 What has your experience been like when it comes to observing the church’s relationship with money? The church that I attended about 15 yrs ago, would have a different "roll call" tithe line. The big money tithers went first then the small change tithers went last. In that community of low income families, guess which lines were the longest? You guess it, the small change tithers. That was such an embarrassment because the majority of the pew warmers were struggling to make ends meet and we were told to forget about buying that dress and give it god. He lived in a penthouse in NJ, drove a Lincoln town car. He made money off us poor folks. Moreover, he was a liar, a womanizer and a con artist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 I live near the site of the old PTL ministries, as does South, and Jim and Tammy Faye. I submit that they were the original, and by far most obsessive, of the tele-v's. Jim got nailed and Tammy's gone, but their greed lives on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South2003 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Bishop Eddie Long has a fairly new church here in Charlotte, NC (New Birth-Charlotte). It went into operation back in 2003. I attened for 3 mths and that's when I finally break the mind numbing cult programming. Hehehee. I became an Atheist in the bible belt. Jim got nailed and Tammy's gone, but their greed lives on. They (the gov't) gets one church, still, there are many more affliates or Joint venture churches to bring in the sheep who in turn, brings in the $$$. HEY PARA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South2003 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 As for Joyce Myers, well, in one of her infamous conferences with a bunch of sobbing women, she held up her gold trimmed bible and said "If anyone tells you that something is the TRUTH, don't believe them" You could hear a rat pissing on hay. Total silence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South2003 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Creflo Dollar requires all his faithful members to submitt their pay stubs. "Shall a man rob god?" I guess is mantra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Creflo Dollar requires all his faithful members to submitt their pay stubs. "Shall a man rob god?" I guess is mantra. I used to go to a Pentecostal Holiness church in Virginia. It was actually moving away from the PH movement, but very charismatic. Nearly the last time I set foot in church was after a private meeting with the pastor regarding a matter that involved several members who were ousted for performing ministry work at other churches (deaf interpretation). He said, and I quote "These people are not faithful to the church so it doesn't bother me to show them the door. I pulled their tithe records and I can tell you without question that they are not faithful." I was in disbelief when he said that. I couldn't believe anyone would have the balls to judge someone based on church tithe records, or even give any thought to them other than records for tax purposes. I wondered how he justified my presence. I always had the mindset that what I gave was my business and I shouldn't give for a tax writeoff, so I very rarely gave anything but cash. That place was f'd up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstarter Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Sometimes I think we need a glossary on this site for all the denominations and sub denominations that people have come from. What the hell is Pentecostal Holiness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush country Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 What has your experience been like when it comes to observing the church’s relationship with money? One term I got so tired of hearing...."Sacrificial giving". Due to family circumstances I still attend church. Recently our church decided to build a new fifteen million dollar children's building. So we started getting the stewardship/tithing sermons. That term - sacrificial giving - was used again and again. This is coming from a preacher that lives in a 4000 sq. ft. home in the nicest part of town, has two SUV's and a Lexus, and takes a five week vacation every summer. All of our deacons live in similar homes & neighborhoods. So I'm thinking - who is making the sacrifice here? The preacher's answer...."I wasn't called to a life of poverty." Sure, that is not on the scale of Kenneth Copeland, but it is still hypocrisy at its finest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Sometimes I think we need a glossary on this site for all the denominations and sub denominations that people have come from. What the hell is Pentecostal Holiness? Well funny enough, it's the same denomination where you'll find the snake handlers, though they never did anything like that in the church I attended. Ours was pretty much a run-of-the-mill charismatic church, similar to the AG, but they maintained some oddities and affiliation with the PH sect. Basically, PH takes the music and "gifts of the spirit" of the charismatic church and the legalisms of most legalistic Baptist church you can think of and rolls them into one. http://www.iphc.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Sometimes I think we need a glossary on this site for all the denominations and sub denominations that people have come from. What the hell is Pentecostal Holiness? We sometimes forget here in the babble-belt that others may still posess a degree of sanity. Pentacostal Holiness is just slightly more prevalent than white bread here. They are the pew jumping, tongue speaking, miracle healing, homo bashing sect that believes that everything in the babble is true, everything besides eating and church-going is a sin, and we are here to suffer and sin not, until the Lard and saviour gets here (any day now). Did I miss anything guys? Those poor sinners who also live in this region can add to anything I missed. I was church of gawd. Some of the others in this area were similar. They are(the ph's), IMHO, about as fucked-up as you can be and still be legally considered sane. And I'm one to talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 They are the pew jumping, tongue speaking, miracle healing, homo bashing sect that believes that everything in the babble is true, everything besides eating and church-going is a sin, and we are here to suffer and sin not, until the Lard and saviour gets here (any day now). Did I miss anything guys? That pretty much covers it, LMAO. Except tithing. Don't forget the tithing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 That pretty much covers it, LMAO. Except tithing. Don't forget the tithing. Of course. Preacher's gotta eat, and piss in a gold toilet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oladotun Posted December 1, 2007 Author Share Posted December 1, 2007 Creflo Dollar requires all his faithful members to submitt their pay stubs. "Shall a man rob god?" I guess is mantra. Crefklo denied this claim and said that it is not true. Are you sure he does this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 The Bible authorizes religious leaders to fleece congregation members. The Congress should take the issue up with GAWD!!! 1 Corinthians 9:11-14 (New International Version) If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you? Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemon Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 One term I got so tired of hearing...."Sacrificial giving". The preacher's answer...."I wasn't called to a life of poverty." Sure, that is not on the scale of Kenneth Copeland, but it is still hypocrisy at its finest. Now that would have made my blood boil. If a preacher told me that after demanding I give tithes (or an offering), I would have told him/her that God didn't call me or anyone else to fund you lavish lifestyle. Now go out and make your own damn money. You're not getting rich off of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexton Blake Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 I wonder how the old convict, Kent Hovind is doing? If there is any justice, the Senate committee arriving : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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