Who Do You Want To Win In 2008

[SWIM]

The list of "front-runners" came from: http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2008-pr...ial-candidates/

 

I am compiling a list for you that contains the candidates admitted religious beliefs. Let's try to keep the fundies out of office, information is the best weapon. After you vote on this threads poll (or before), look at where they stand below. I tried to get two different sources for each one's convictions using google.

 

THE POLL. This poll is to help "US" figure out who is best suited to run the country. BEFORE casting a vote, I encourage you to dig deeper then I did in creating this post. Make a serious vote please. There is diliberately NO "none of the above" in the poll. Someone "has" to win. It's VERY likely it *will* be one of these.

 

I would like a discussion from BOTH sides of the camp, xtian and EX alike, that is why it is in the Lion's Den. Feel free to fight it out too, please do. The more we discuss this the better educated we will be on who is best for our country. I have stated before that I will NOT vote for ANY xtian. However, seeing the line-up of nut jobs, I have changed my stance on this. I *will* vote, if only to prevent a *mormon* from gaining office... I encourage you to vote too, I know the choices suck donkey butt, however "someone" has to win...

 

No commentary below is by me. It is all from the sources.

 

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Religious Convictions - Candidates in the order of most popular from Washington Post: http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2008-pr...ial-candidates/

 

Hilary Clinton - methodist: "Clinton has positioned herself as the de facto leader of homosexual activists in the United States when she told the homosexual activist group, Human Rights Campaign (HRC), “I am proud to stand by your side” and spoke enthusiastically of the “agenda we are pursuing.” http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/jun/07060407.html

 

On another page: "She is widely perceived as not religious. There was a poll done in 2000 by NBC and The Wall Street Journal and of all the major politicians she was judged the second-least religious, that second behind only Bill Clinton. In September 2007, there was another Pew Research poll done that showed that Hillary of all the major political candidates of both political parties finished second only to Giuliani.

 

Only 12 percent judged her very religious in 2000 and now it's up to 16 percent in 2007. She hasn't done much to change that perception. In reality, she has been a committed Methodist since she was a little girl in Park Ridge, Illinois." http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/d...y/150-22.0.html

 

Mitt Romney - mormon: "Mary Van Steenis asked Romney how he would ponder important decisions as president and which source of inspiration he would seek.

 

"Where would the Bible be in that process?" she asked. "Would it be above the Book of Mormon or would it be beneath it?"

 

"I don't know that there's any conflict at all between the values of great faiths like mine, like yours, like other faiths, like Jews who don't believe in the New Testament," Romney said.

 

"People of faith have different doctrines and different beliefs on various topics of a theological nature. But in terms of what it is we are going to believe and also based on our values for our country, I think we come from the same place," Romney said. http://atheism.about.com/b/2007/07/03/mitt...s-questions.htm

 

Indeed, it's already begun. "How Mormon are you?" Sridhar Pappu asked Romney for his Atlantic Monthly profile. Romney's answer sounded like it could have come from George W. Bush: "You know, the principles and values taught to me by faith are values I aspire to live by. [They] are as American as motherhood and apple pie. My faith believes in family, believes in Jesus Christ. It believes in serving one's neighbor and one's community." That kind of vague answer works for Bush, but Bush is a Methodist. In his interview, Pappu continued to press Romney about the particulars of Mormon practice. Cornered, the governor replied tersely. I'll just say those sorts of things I keep private." At that point, Pappu dropped the issue. But the next reporter won't, nor the next, nor the next.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/....sullivan1.html

John Edwards - Southern Baptist: In 2004, John Kerry said that he wouldn't let his faith affect his decision making. Does it affect yours?

Yes, it does. I do believe in the separation of church and state. But I don't think separation of church and state means you have to be free from your faith. My faith informs everything I think and do. It's part of my value system. And to suggest that I can somehow separate and divorce that from the rest of me is not possible. I would not, under any circumstances, try to impose my personal faith and belief on the rest of the country. I don't think that's right. I don't think that's appropriate. But freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom from religion. And I think that anything we can do to promote the idea that people should express their faith is a good thing. http://www.beliefnet.com/story/213/story_2...1.html#extndVer

 

What role has your faith played in your political life?

 

"Well, my faith has been enormous to me in my personal life and of course my personal life is a big impact on my political life. I have had an interesting faith journey over the course of my life. I was born and raised in the Southern Baptist church, I was baptized in the Southern Baptist Church and then later in life joined the Methodist church and like a lot of people, when I was in my college years, and I went to law school and became a lawyer and was raising my young family I moved away somewhat from my faith. And then I lost a son in 1996 and my faith came roaring back and it played an enormous role in my ability to get through that period. It stayed with me and has been enormously important. And in terms of my political life I believe there's a lot of the things that are part of my faith belief is also part of my political belief. My responsibilities to others, to help others. My work for instance, with Urban Ministries. I have been on the board of Urban Ministries for years before I went to the Senate. To provide help to the homeless in the `Raleigh-Durham` area in North Carolina is an example of that. So I think it's just part of my entire life." http://www.jregrassroots.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=4886

 

Fred Thompson - church of christ: "As far as faith is concerned, I have not made any secret as to where I am. I am a Christian," Thompson said, noting that, while he does not attend church while at home in McLean, Virginia, he does attend church with his mother when he visits in Tennessee. "I have no apologies to make about my religion or my relationship to Jesus Christ or God."

 

In a column in USA Today Monday, David Domke, a University of Washington journalism professor, said Thompson has not done better in the polls because "he lacks a religious niche" and "Christian conservatives have not been amused or enthused" by his lack of church attendance and the few times he has talked of his faith on the campaign trail.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/03/thompson/

 

Thompson was raised in the Church of Christ, but he admitted that he is not a member of any church in Washington DC, where he lives, and that his church attendance "varies". (Source: Thompson Says He Won't Tout His Religion on Trail, Bloomberg.com, Sept. 11, 2007). He was raised Restorationist/Cambellite.

 

Talking About God

 

In his first South Carolina campaign event yesterday, Thompson brought up his childhood church and said God gives him the ``strength and wisdom'' to tell ``the truth.'' The comments marked the most Thompson has said to date on the campaign trail about his religion.

 

A woman in the crowd asked the former senator whether he would commit to talking about God nationwide, not just in a southern state such as South Carolina, where many people identify themselves as evangelical Christians. Thompson responded by saying he has a relationship with God and doesn't plan to talk about it widely on the campaign trail. ``I know that I'm right with God and the people I love,'' he said in Greenville. But it's ``just the way I am not to talk about some of these things.''

 

He then launched into part of his stump speech, touting his ``100 percent pro-life voting record'' and talking about how seeing the sonogram of his now almost 4-year-old daughter, Hayden, had a profound effect on him. Thompson's churchgoing habits weren't a problem for at least one onlooker.

http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Fred_Thompson

John Mccain - episcopalian/baptist: A recent poll found that 55 percent of Americans believe the U.S. Constitution establishes a Christian nation. What do you think?

I would probably have to say yes, that the Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation. But I say that in the broadest sense. The lady that holds her lamp beside the golden door doesn't say, “I only welcome Christians.” We welcome the poor, the tired, the huddled masses. But when they come here they know that they are in a nation founded on Christian principles.

 

For years, you've been identified as an Episcopalian. You recently began referring to yourself as a Baptist. Why?

[it was] one comment on the bus after hours. I meant to say that I practice in a—I am a Christian and I attend a Baptist church. I am very aware that immersion is part—as my wife Cindy has done—is necessary to be considered a Baptist. So I was raised Episcopalian, I have attended the North Phoenix Baptist Church for many years and I am a Christian.

 

What prevents you from taking that final step of undergoing the baptism?

I've had discussions with the pastor about it and we're still in conversation about it. In the meantime, I am a practicing Christian.

 

So the baptism is something you still might do?

Oh, sure, yeah. But, some of the factors haven't got so much to do with religion as they have to do with just—I'm in conversations with [my] pastor about it, as short a time ago as last week. But I would not anticipate going through that during this presidential campaign. I am afraid it might appear as if I was doing something that I otherwise wouldn't do.

 

*McCain contacted Beliefnet after the interview to clarify his remarks: “I would vote for a Muslim if he or she was the candidate best able to lead the country and defend our political values.”

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/220/story_22001_1.html

 

Curiosity about his religion was sparked Sunday when McCain, who has long been identified as an Episcopalian, was asked what role his Episcopal faith plays in his life.

"It plays a role in my life. By the way, I'm not Episcopalian. I'm Baptist," McCain told the Associated Press after a rally in Hilton Head, South Carolina. But the Senator's biography in the 2007 edition of the Congressional Directory lists his faith as Episcopalian. McCain also attended an Episcopal high school in the Washington D.C. area.

At a recent Fox News debate, each candidate was introduced with a short description that included religion. McCain's was described as Episcopalian, and neither the candidate nor the campaign issued a correction or clarification.

The ABC News questionnaire was sent out to each of the candidates participating in the Republican debate, which was moderated by ABC's George Stephanopoulos. The McCain campaign's director of advance Davis White returned the form to ABC. The campaign stuck with McCain's statement earlier in the day.

 

"The Senator has made it abundantly clear that he's a Christian and that's the most important issue here," said campaign spokeswoman Brooke Buchanan.

 

McCain's wife, Cindy, is Baptist and so are their children. The campaign describes his faith as a private matter.

 

Later in the day Sunday, after his comments in Hilton Head, McCain was asked if he would be making a public declaration of his faith.

 

"I've made that hundreds of times," he said. http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/20...mccain-the.html

 

Barack Oboma - church of christ: "For one, they need to understand the critical role that the separation of church and state has played in preserving not only our democracy, but the robustness of our religious practice. That during our founding, it was not the atheists or the civil libertarians who were the most effective champions of this separation; it was the persecuted religious minorities, Baptists like John Leland, who were most concerned that any state-sponsored religion might hinder their ability to practice their faith."

 

Moreover, given the increasing diversity of America’s population, the dangers of sectarianism have never been greater. Whatever we once were, we are no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers."http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2006/06/obama_on_faith_and_politics_an.html

 

"Taking the lead in trying to get liberals, progressives, and Democrats to imitate the Christian Right, Barack Obama has declared that his religion does indeed have an important place in politics — but apparently only on his terms and in the way he wants. As has become common with the so-called "Religious Left," religion used the way he wants is good; religion used differently is not.

 

According to Barack Obama, religious faith must be used to "tackle moral problems" but not "divide the nation." Since when have "moral problems" not divided the nation? Do the words "slavery" and "segregation" ring any bells? Then again, Obama also tries to suggest that religion only divides people when it is "hijacked." It's implausible that he's so ignorant as to truly believe such things, which means he's telling people what they want to hear, however disconnected to reality, for the sake of votes." http://atheism.about.com/b/2007/06/21/bara...n-his-terms.htm

 

Mike Huckabee - Baptist (minister): Huckabee Speaks for God:

At the CNN/YouTube debate in November, Huckabee adroitly deflected a question on Jesus' position on the death penalty, announcing to applause from the GOP faithful that "Jesus was too smart to ever run for public office." But ten years earlier in 1997, Huckabee claimed unique insight into Christ's likely support for capital punishment: "Interestingly enough, if there was ever an occasion for someone to have argued against the death penalty, I think Jesus could have done so on the cross and said, 'This is an unjust punishment and I deserve clemency.'"

Huckabee Speaks to God:

Addressing a 2004 gathering of Republican governors, Huckabee playfully took a cell phone call from God, promising Him GOP support of His platform while assuming His backing for the Republican Party and President George W. Bush:

"We're behind [bush], yes, sir, we sure are. Yes, sir, we know you don't take sides in the election. But, if you did, we kind of think you'd hang in there with us, Lord, we really do."

Huckabee Claims God Behind His Rise in the Polls:

Three years after claiming God' endorsement for the GOP and President Bush, Mike Huckabee is now counting Him among his own supporters. Asked about his sudden surge in the presidential polls, Huckabee attributed the gains to His divine intervention:

"There's only one explanation for it, and it's not a human one. It's the same power that helped a little boy with two fish and five loaves feed a crowd of 5,000 people and that's the only way that our campaign could be doing what it's doing. And I'm not being facetious nor am I trying to be trite. There literally are thousands of people across who are praying that a little will become much and it has, and it defies all explanation. It has confounded the pundits, and I'm enjoying every minute of their trying to figure it out. And until they look at it from a just experience beyond human, they'll never figure it out. And that's probably just as well. That's honestly why its happening."

Huckabee later feebly backtracked, claiming, "I'm saying that when people pray, things happen, I'm not saying that God wants me to be elected." Lord, forgive him not, for he knows what he does.

Huckabee Proclaims His Theology Degree a Unique Qualification to Fight Terrorism:

Minister Huckabee is quick to champion his degree from tiny Ouachita Baptist University as uniquely qualifying him for the White House. His faith-based presidency would fight the dual threats from Charles Darwin and Osama Bin Laden. In November, Huckabee tried to claim the mantle of the GOP's leading terror fighter, arguing: "I think I'm stronger than most people because I truly understand the nature of the war that we are in with Islamo fascism. These are people that want to kill us. It's a theocratic war. And I don't know if anybody fully understands that. I'm the only guy on that stage with a theology degree."

http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/000854.htm

 

Before beginning his political career, Huckabee was a Southern Baptist minister for 12 years in his home state of Arkansas. He assumed the pastorate at Immanuel Baptist Church in the town of Pine Bluff in 1980, at the age of 25. Six years later, he moved to Beech Street First Baptist Church in Texarkana. In both locations, Huckabee's energy, ambition, and skills as a communicator energized his congregation. Under his leadership, each church grew.

 

When asked for copies of the sermons Huckabee delivered at Immanuel Church, an employee there claimed none could be found. A Beech Street Church pastor's assistant maintained that much of the archival material from Huckabee's tenure as pastor had been destroyed during a remodeling. The rest, she said, was not available to the press.

 

When Mother Jones contacted the Huckabee campaign and asked if it would help make his previous sermons available, the campaign replied in a one-sentence email that it had received multiple requests for such material and was "not able to accommodate" them. http://www.motherjones.com/washington_disp...or-sermons.html

 

Rudy Giuliani - catholic: The televangelist Pat Robertson endorsed Rudolph W. Giuliani today at the National Press Club in Washington, providing the former New York City Mayor with a big symbolic boost as he tries to allay the concerns of Christian conservatives about his candidacy. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/11...orses-giuliani/

 

Rudy Giuliani was born into a Catholic family and his thinking was shaped by his Catholic education. The devotion evidenced in his early years, however, evaporated into a liberal lifestyle and policy stances. Giuliani has never spoken about any one, sudden experience that caused him to abandon the traditional Catholicism of his youth. Rather, his is the story of a gradual erosion of faith and values.

 

The Catholic Giulianis had their son baptized at the St Francis of Assisi Church in Brooklyn on July 2, 1944.[2]

 

Giuliani recalls that, “while neither of my parents was particularly devout, they both felt deeply the Church’s message of experiencing grace by giving to others. That commitment filtered down to me.”[3]

 

Looking back on his childhood, Giuliani credits his mother Helen with instilling a strong work ethic in him. She taught him to always finish his homework before going out to play. Giuliani remembers his father Harold as being committed to helping the needy. “My father was always helping people, trying to find a job for a neighbor of taking a relative to the hospital.”[4]

 

While his parents were not devout, Giuliani received extensive instruction in the teachings of the Catholic Church through his schooling. After the Giuliani family moved to Long Island in 1951, Rudy attended St. Anne’s Catholic School. Students wore uniforms and followed strict rules of conduct. The teachers were all nuns and each day commenced with the reciting of prayers and the pledge of allegiance.[5]

 

Giuliani took his first communion during this time. To prepare for the momentous event, St. Anne’s students were required to study the Baltimore Catechism.[6] It features questions like “From whom do we learn to know, love and serve God?"

 

Answer: “We learn to know, love, and serve God from Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who teaches through the Catholic Church.”[7]

 

In 1957 Giuliani enrolled at the prestigious, all-boys Bishop Loughlin Memorial High school. He earned admission by passing a competitive entrance exam. Like St. Anne’s, Bishop Loughlin had strict rules of conduct. The school was run by a French order of the Christian Brothers. The instructor began each class by saying, “Let us remember that we are in the holy presence of God.”[8] The school emphasized patriotism as an important part of Catholic faith. Classrooms usually featured both a crucifix and an American flag. One of Giuliani’s Loughlin classmates recalls that:

 

The talk from the brothers was about God and country. Work hard and you can get the American dream. They’d yell these things at you, and you believed in it. You'd get one side of an issue, and they'd say, that's the way it is. There was never a debate on, say, abortion. It was just wrong. You were given the Catholic view. It was not an open debate.[9]

 

Giuliani appears to have taken his school’s teachings to heart. He went above and beyond mandatory religious activities. He hung a crucifix in his bedroom at home. He participated in several of the school’s religious extracurricular activities, even helping evangelize in poor neighborhoods.[10]

 

Giuliani’s time at Bishop Loughlin is also significant because he met his life long friend and confidant Alan Placa there. They shared a passion for debating, particularly about religious issues. Both wanted to serve the needy and intended to join the priesthood. Giuliani says:

 

All through high school (at Bishop Loughlin in Brooklyn), I would discuss religion and notions of service with one of my teachers, Brother Kevin, and with my friend Alan Placa. At the end of my time there, I signed up to enter for Montfort Fathers (in Bay Shore, Long Island), a religious order devoted to serving in the poorest countries. Alan was going to join the Christian Brothers. I wasn’t going to do anything halfway: if I was going to become a priest, I was going to help out the most underprivileged I could find. I remember thinking I would probably end up in Haiti or Africa.[11]

http://www.faithandaction.org/index.cfm/fu...d/294/index.cfm

 

Ron Paul - none-denominational christian : It is important to note that he is NOT considered a front runner by the washington post, I included him because he seems to have a "following" here.

 

If you’ve been following the Ron Paul campaign, you probably have noticed that he has never really talked about his religious beliefs. Here is his response on that.

 

I have never been one who is comfortable talking about my faith in the political arena. In fact, the pandering that typically occurs in the election season I find to be distasteful. But for those who have asked, I freely confess that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, and that I seek His guidance in all that I do.

 

Dr. Paul went on to say:

 

I’d rather my views and my convictions and my faith be shown by my actions rather than [by] what I say… also, the part in the bible about not showing off… we’re instructed to pray quietly …[and] not to play big fanfare. I’m trying to strike something in between there; where I’m not bashful and ashamed of it, at the same time I don’t want to look like others who …look to get votes because they were willing to say and do something in public.

 

Q: Do you believe homosexuality is a sin?

 

Dr. Paul: I’m not as judgmental about that probably because of my medical background. I don’t see it in [such] simplistic terms. I think it’s a complex issue to think it’s a sin or other problems with the way people are born. It’s too complex to give an answer as simple as that.”

 

Q: Do you believe God says homosexuality is a sin?

 

Dr. Paul: Well, I believe a lot of people understand it that way but I think everybody is God’s child, too, so, you know, I have trouble with that.

 

Dr. Paul wouldn’t give an answer they interviewer wanted. He gave the answers that he believed in. This is truly a great test of character. While other GOP candidates would have taken this opportunity to win some votes by saying homosexuality is a sin, Dr. Paul stood his ground.

 

He also was asked some questions about gays in the military. One of the biggest arguments against gays in the military is that they are disruptive. Dr. Paul has stated in the past that for every homosexual problem we have in our military there are probably the same, if not more heterosexual problems.

 

Q: Why not try — as far as is humanly possible — to ban from our military all homosexuals, adulterers, fornicators?

 

Dr. Paul: Well, we’re all imperfect, we all sin. If the heterosexual or the homosexual sins, that to me is a category dealing with their own soul. Since we can’t have only perfect people go in the military, I want to separate the two because I don’t want to know the heterosexual flaws or the homosexual flaws .For the practicality of running a military, I’d just as soon not know every serious thing that any heterosexual did or any homosexual did. And those flaws have to do with all our flaws because each and every one of us have those imperfections and we all are sinners.

 

http://www.decimation.com/markw/2007/09/05...-homosexuality/

 

I was a big time Ron Paul supporter, second only to Joe Biden. However, Foxdie pointed out something interesting about Ron: there are dramatic reasons why liberal, atheist and/or even rational and intelligent theists must not support Ron Paul. According to his own website, Ron Paul does not believe in the separation of state and church:

 

“There certainly is no mention of any “separation of church and state”, although Supreme Court jurisprudence over the decades constantly asserts this mystical doctrine. Sadly, the application of this faulty doctrine by judges and lawmakers consistently results in violations of the free exercise clause. Rulings and laws separating citizens from their religious beliefs in all public settings simply restrict religious practices.

Moreover, there is ample evidence that most of our Founders were deeply religious men who never imagined a rigid separation between religious beliefs and governance. Indeed, our national documents, symbols, currency, and buildings are replete with religious symbolism. Our national motto, “In God We Trust,” is an obvious example.

Popular culture and media mirror this hostility in their inaccurate and unflattering portrayals of religious conservatives and fundamentalists. The message is always the same: conservatives want to force their religious beliefs upon society. The truth is that secular humanists have forced their beliefs upon a largely religious nation. In schools, in government, and in the courts, secular values dominate. Secularism, wrongly characterized as neutral toward religious faith, has become the default philosophy for our society. The Supreme Court, by refusing to consider the Elkhart case, has furthered the cause of those who wish to see religion eliminated from American life. “

 

He not only wants to marry the state (not federal) to the church but also has a dislike for secular humanists! He portrays them like some kind of anti-Christ minions.

 

What this means for atheists is that the states like Texas which bar atheists and agnostics from holding office will be given the leeway and power to persecute them. For example, 6 states in the US still have that clause in their constitutions. It was the federal government that struck down that law, but it remains in the states’ constitution. Ron Paul would allow such states to declare an official state religion and also empower them to enact anti-atheistic laws. The threat goes beyond that to every religious minority.

 

Obeying the constitution is all fine and dandy, but our problems are of a different era where we have a multi-cultural and multi-religious society. To allow any group to institutionally dominate would be to destroy the very ideals we champion; liberty!

http://towelianism.wordpress.com/2007/12/1...ate-and-church/

 

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OK, the above was taken from various websites, using google searching: "[candidates name]" "religious beliefs"

 

I took quotes from two different pages for each. RED LETTER above are direct quotes from the candidates. NONE of the commentary above is by me, it is straight from the source.

 

The above poll is so we can get a feel for who we want in office from a religious point of view. So, which above is the lesser of the "evils". I hate to say it, but Hilary looks like the least "nuts" of the group...

[Japedo]

To be honest here, there is no one that really represents my views. Having said that, I'm still undecided how I'm going to vote in the NH Primary next week. I am registered as a Republican, so I am required to vote in the Republican Primary.

 

I'm torn between two people.

 

Ron Paul and Mitt Romney and have stated as such in every single phone poll I've taken, which has been 3 so far.

 

The latest polls show Mitt being barely in first with god awful McCain on his heels in second, and ass Huckabee, and GW copy cat Rudy just about tied for 3rd place. I don't want to give a vote to Paul who's standings are only in the single digits here and take away a vote from Mitt in beating the other three which I absolutely don't want to get the Nom. I also think Ron Paul can withdraw from the Republican race and run as a 3rd party, Ron Paul most likely will not get the republican nod. I'll be surprised if he breaks 3rd in any of the first 4 primary's/caucuses.

 

The only candidate who's religion bothers me on a personal level is Huckabee, because he's a zealot of the worst stripe, and hates all things not supported by his dogma.

 

 

I probably wont make my mind up til I'm standing in the booth looking at the voting paper. Having said that...

 

I voted Obama on this poll for a few reasons, I'll most likly vote for him if he gets the nom regardless of who wins the Republican nom.

 

I'll only vote for Hilary in the cases if it's between her and Mc Cain, Huckabee or Giuliani.

 

Edwards is a toss up...

 

Let the flames begin.... I am still waiting to have my mind changed.

 

 

ETA: I don't know How I'll vote if Ron Paul turns out to be a real viable candidate.. we'll see.

[Brother Jeff]

I voted for Rudy Giuliani. We've had a great Catholic president before in JFK.

 

As far as who I'll really vote for goes, it will be the Democratic candidate, whoever that ends up being. The last several years under that moron Bush who can't even string together a coherent sentence without help from people with functioning brains have made me a very strong DEMOCRAT. I hate just about everything that Republicans think, say, and do. But the Democrats have greatly disappointed me too by refusing to have some backbone and standing up to that moron Bush and do what needs to be done not just about Iraq, but domestically. To say that my politics have changed over the last several years is putting it mildly. But then, my religious beliefs have changed radically too. Personal growth is a good thing. Glory!

[Japedo]

The only candidate who's religion bothers me on a personal level is Huckabee, because he's a zealot of the worst stripe, and hates all things not supported by his dogma. I probably wont make my mind up til I'm standing in the booth looking at the voting paper.

 

Huckabee scares me the most of all of them, and should scare any but the most fundy zealot christian. From what I read, he would strip rights away from people right and left in order to impose some kind of christian dominionist dream that is only rivaled by what is seen in fundamentalist islamic countries.

 

Me too Madame M. I am absolutely dumbfounded that he even has a chance to be honest. In the case he wins the nom, I'll vote for who ever the Dem is, I'll donate money and it will be my mission to work against his ever getting elected. It will light a fire under my ass for sure!

 

ETA: Sorry I should have fixed that paragrah.. there is no way I'll ever cast a vote for TaliHuck

[Brother Jeff]

I'm not very familiar with Huckabee, but he must be scary. The candidates being religious doesn't bother me. What will bother me is if they use their religion the way Bush has, for example, to guide their actions. And if they try to make their religious beliefs into law, then I'll really be pissed off.

 

EDIT: Go, Patriots!

[Japedo]

I'm not very familiar with Huckabee, but he must be scary. The candidates being religious doesn't bother me. What will bother me is if they use their religion the way Bush has, for example, to guide their actions. And if they try to make their religious beliefs into law, then I'll really be pissed off.

 

EDIT: Go, Patriots!

 

 

Jeff there are some links posted on the submissive women thread and also the rise of the fundamentalist thread.

 

Long and short.

 

Huck clearly states he doesn't separate his faith from his politics. No state funded abortions were allowed to take place while he was Gov of AK. Even in the case of a retarded teenager who was raped by her step dad. He has openly stated that women should be submissive to their husbands, That the war on terror is a religious war and has also stated that if God and science disagree he will always side with god. The guy is a toy short of a happy meal.

 

The scary thing is the fundys are rallying behind him and he's climbing in the polls.

 

GO Pats Indeed!!!

[SWIM]

Mitt seems pretty bad imo because he's a mormon. It takes a special kind of stupid imo, to go for the whole "golden tablets/seer stone" bullshit. That takes a level of stupid I just cannot wrap my head around...

 

 

And no "ministers" either.

 

I probably will vote for Hilary if she gets the nod. Why? Because she has Bill as an advisor, plus it would be hilarious to see him in a "first lady" role

[SWIM]

If religion was the basis of the selection in the US, you might as well flush the country down the toilet.

 

G.W. is a Methodist. Decisions in Iraq caused 655,000 civilian dead (2006 estimate)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6101001442.html

 

Clinton is also a methodist.... scrap her based on the Bush record ?

 

Safest for human life ? probably Rudy Giuliani. Catholics are very pro-life. If he doesn't follow the Roman line he might be excommunicated

 

 

Well the idea is to research all their different beliefs to find which ones are "lip-service", CINO or "fundy". Comparing clinton to bush because both are methodists don't cut it, because one might be more "fundy" then the other, and the other could possibly be "lip-service or CINO" so, that comparison is not really all that good.

 

This topic requires research, which is why I tried to jump-start this thread with a tad bit of research. They will ALL admit xtianity. We know this. The question is which is going to be INFLUENCED the most by it...

[Japedo]

Mitt seems pretty bad imo because he's a mormon. It takes a special kind of stupid imo, to go for the whole "golden tablets/seer stone" bullshit. That takes a level of stupid I just cannot wrap my head around...

 

Michael,

 

I'm sorry but you sound like the fundy's who claim Mitt isn't a real Christian ™ and shouldn't hold office because of that.

 

First of all, a Mormon isn't going to be able to pass any 'god ordained bullshit'. Everything he does pertaining to religion will be watched by hawks and will be rejected. Mitt isn't very religious and was born into and raised in his faith. Much like the rest of this country is in some type of special kind of stupid dogma. I see his beliefs as not being any more absurd then believing a man who walked on water, made wine out of water, who was born from a virgin who god impregnated, and the rest of his magic tricks and fairytales. To which may I add, all of which Hilary belives.

[Japedo]

This topic requires research, which is why I tried to jump-start this thread with a tad bit of research. They will ALL admit xtianity. We know this. The question is which is going to be INFLUENCED the most by it...

 

The least fundy is probably Giuliani ... probably the best protector of a secular government.

Giuliani has declined to comment publicly on his religious practice and beliefs, although he identifies religion as an important part of his life. When asked if he is a practicing Catholic, Giuliani answered, "My religious affiliation, my religious practices and the degree to which I am a good or not-so-good Catholic, I prefer to leave to the priests."[192]

 

Most fundy.... Huckabee and that Mormon guy Romney.

 

 

Source?

 

Romeny would never be Governor of the most "Godless" State in the union (Massachusetts) if he was any sort of buybull thumper. IN FACT his religion was never even an issue until the press made it one since he chose to run. I want a source to him being a zealot... Please...

 

 

Also Giuliani is a carbon copy of Bush policy wise. If he's voted in you'll get more of the same bullshit we've all received in the last 8 years, this Country can't take another 4 years of a W type Presidency.

[SWIM]

Mitt seems pretty bad imo because he's a mormon. It takes a special kind of stupid imo, to go for the whole "golden tablets/seer stone" bullshit. That takes a level of stupid I just cannot wrap my head around...

 

Michael,

 

I'm sorry but you sound like the fundy's who claim Mitt isn't a real Christian â„¢ and shouldn't hold office because of that.

 

First of all, a Mormon isn't going to be able to pass any 'god ordained bullshit'. Everything he does pertaining to religion will be watched by hawks and will be rejected. Mitt isn't very religious and was born into and raised in his faith. Much like the rest of this country is in some type of special kind of stupid dogma. I see his beliefs as not being any more absurd then believing a man who walked on water, made wine out of water, who was born from a virgin who god impregnated, and the rest of his magic tricks and fairytales. To which may I add, all of which Hilary belives.

 

Yeah but as a moron doen't he buy into BOTH camps of bullshit? It's like xtianity + extra crapola!

 

I personally want the least religious, would prefer an atheist run, but oh well...

[Japedo]

Yeah but as a moron doen't he buy into BOTH camps of bullshit? It's like xtianity + extra crapola!

 

I personally want the least religious, would prefer an atheist run, but oh well...

 

I don't know Michael. An Atheist could run but I might not vote for him. I don't much care about a persons personal private beliefs, I only care about what policy's they wish to support or pass.

 

John F Kennedy was the first catholic to ever hold office. He was put thru many religious tests like Mitt is today, even tho one shouldn't have to have a religious test. Many mud slung at him because after all, Catholics pray to the rosary, Have statues of Mary (which are seen as idols) and need to go to confession to be absolved of sins. Kennedy being a catholic is an irrelevant issue.

 

I don't assume to know diddly squat about being a Mormon. I know it's a cult, in the same fashion as being a Baptist , pentecostal or Catholic, Muslim is. Mitt is not running for Clergy of the country. He is personally Pro-life, but never sought to touch the rulings of roe V wade. One can have a personal belief but not want to legislate that personal belief as creed of the land.

 

Huckabee on the other hand, has stated several times, he wants to restore this country back to god. His religion is more accepted by the masses, but he is a huge danger to this country, because he only sees his way as the only right way. He publicly has admitted to thinking women are inferior and should submit to their husbands, I wont get into it all here, most know he's a fundy kook of the brightest stripe. He can't separate his beliefs from policy which is why he's dangerous.

 

Here is something about Rudy, he's very Ashcroft. Bold and underline Mine..

 

Anti-Catholic art is disgusting; appoints decency council

A photography exhibit that includes a work depicting Jesus as a naked woman is stirring debate at the Brooklyn Museum of Art. The work “Yo Mama’s Last Supper” features the photographer nude and surrounded by 12 black apostles. Another collage depicts a topless woman, crucified.

 

“I think what they did is disgusting, it’s outrageous,” Giuliani said, adding that anti-Catholicism “is accepted in our city and in our society.” Giuliani is appointing a task force “that can set decency standards for those institutions that are using the taxpayers’ money.“

In 1999, the museum’s ”Sensation“ show featured an elephant dung-embellished Virgin Mary. The mayor froze the museum’s annual $7.2 million city subsidy, then sued in state court to evict the museum. A judge ruled that the city had violated the First Amendment and restored the funding. This time, Giuliani said he would go all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, whose decisions he said are based on ”showing decency and respect for religion.“ Source: Associated Press in NY Times Feb 16, 2001 No taxpayer dollars for offensive art I think [the “Sensation”] exhibit, beyond even the desecration of the Virgin Mary, is a horrible exhibit. There’s a pedophile that is glorified with the fingerprints of the children that the pedophile attacked. There are pigs in formaldehyde that are dissected. There’s are displays of other things involving crimes of violence. If you want to do this privately, you have every right to do it. But here you’re taking hard-earned taxpayer dollars and using it to subsidize this project. Source: ABC News’ “This Week” Oct 3, 1999

 

Source

 

You guy's honestly think Rudy is the least religious? .

[Brother Jeff]

I'm not very familiar with Huckabee, but he must be scary. The candidates being religious doesn't bother me. What will bother me is if they use their religion the way Bush has, for example, to guide their actions. And if they try to make their religious beliefs into law, then I'll really be pissed off.

 

EDIT: Go, Patriots!

 

 

Jeff there are some links posted on the submissive women thread and also the rise of the fundamentalist thread.

 

Long and short.

 

Huck clearly states he doesn't separate his faith from his politics. No state funded abortions were allowed to take place while he was Gov of AK. Even in the case of a retarded teenager who was raped by her step dad. He has openly stated that women should be submissive to their husbands, That the war on terror is a religious war and has also stated that if God and science disagree he will always side with god. The guy is a toy short of a happy meal.

 

The scary thing is the fundys are rallying behind him and he's climbing in the polls.

 

GO Pats Indeed!!!

That all does sound very bad and dangerous. Let's hope he doesn't climb too far in the polls. The last thing we need is another fundie president. If a Republican or a fundie is elected, I may well try to find a way to leave the country and live in Europe or something while America flushes itself further down the toilet. How the fuck I would arrange that I don't know, but I would try. I have traveled Europe when I was younger, and I would actually love to live there.

[Deva]

Since this was about religion alone- I voted for Hilary. It is just hard for me to imagine her trying to foist Methodism on the country. Of course I could be wrong, but of all the candidates listed, Hilary trying to promote religion--- I just can't see it.

[Grandpa Harley]

I still favour the Jack Russell in a straw boater and a 'Vote Nixon!' rosette... at least he'd have pure motives,he'd be faithful, and handy in a scrap...

 

Based on their own lies... Billiary seems the least insane, followed by Nyarlathotep...

[SWIM]

Since this was about religion alone- I voted for Hilary. It is just hard for me to imagine her trying to foist Methodism on the country. Of course I could be wrong, but of all the candidates listed, Hilary trying to promote religion--- I just can't see it.

 

Yeah, and going by both her and bill's history, I don't see her spreading "methodism" either.

 

It has been implied that a canidate's religious beliefs are not all that relevant. Really? What someone "has faith in" to be true says a LOT about a person's current mental status. Believing things with no proof or tangible reason for that belief is not a quality I want in a leader.

 

It is important for example, that someone will not only buy into all the crap in the bible, but also at some point, bought into the "upgrade" or add-on package, the book of moron. Makes you wonder if that person is also capable of believing in santa, and the tooth fairy as well.

 

Do you really want someone with such a slim grasp on reality to assume office?

 

Rudy G. is also in xtain with extra add-ons. But on the other hand, RCC people are "well known" for being lip-service only, hell most of the mob past and present are catholics. BUT he is too bushified imo, plus it empowers a party SLAM full of right wing nut jobs, so that's a very strong negative against him.

 

Mitt *might* be a MINO dunno, it's possible I guess. Was he "converted" to it, of did he get raised that way? That's a seriously important question concerning him, if he was "recruited" he has serious, profound, mental issues, if he was born into it, he may only claim it for that reason. An important distinction to make.

 

What they believe in says a lot for their mental state, and also how they may react to a "vivid dream" that tells them to attack blah blah. We know an atheist would not act on a "dream", but a mormon? Or ex-minister? hmmm

[Japedo]

Yeah, and going by both her and bill's history, I don't see her spreading "methodism" either.

 

It has been implied that a canidate's religious beliefs are not all that relevant. Really? What someone "has faith in" to be true says a LOT about a person's current mental status. Believing things with no proof or tangible reason for that belief is not a quality I want in a leader.

 

It is important for example, that someone will not only buy into all the crap in the bible, but also at some point, bought into the "upgrade" or add-on package, the book of moron. Makes you wonder if that person is also capable of believing in santa, and the tooth fairy as well.

 

Do you really want someone with such a slim grasp on reality to assume office?

 

Rudy G. is also in xtain with extra add-ons. But on the other hand, RCC people are "well known" for being lip-service only, hell most of the mob past and present are catholics. BUT he is too bushified imo, plus it empowers a party SLAM full of right wing nut jobs, so that's a very strong negative against him.

 

Mitt *might* be a MINO dunno, it's possible I guess. Was he "converted" to it, of did he get raised that way? That's a seriously important question concerning him, if he was "recruited" he has serious, profound, mental issues, if he was born into it, he may only claim it for that reason. An important distinction to make.

 

What they believe in says a lot for their mental state, and also how they may react to a "vivid dream" that tells them to attack blah blah. We know an atheist would not act on a "dream", but a mormon? Or ex-minister? hmmm

 

Mike,

 

It's hypocritical of you to vote for anyone running in this election if you believe faith/belief in a god is a form of a injured mental state. How are you to know anyone's hearts and minds? How are you to know a current atheists or non believer won't be 'saved' once you vote them into office? How do you know the less religious ones that you currently support won't keep their dogma at bay until they win the prize?

 

Do you honestly believe all atheists have no mental issues? Are you serious? I don't know anyones mental state, and don't assume I do based upon their faith or lack there of. If someone is loudly and strongly voicing policy's that advocate a return to the bible, then you KNOW that person is a zealot. If on the other hand, the persons decisions are based upon respect out of the law, freedom and so forth then his/her faith is a non issue.

 

You have the same black and white mentality many Christians have about atheists, You are controlled by your fear of those not like you. You'll only vote for the star bellied sneeches, and there are none running in this election. NO one currently running is a non-believer. Why not run yourself if you have such strong convictions about it?

 

Rudy might be a catholic, but so? It's proven with is record he'll prosecute, shut down and go after those who openly offend his religion. He put together a decency task force for god sakes to save the virgin mary.

 

 

As far as Mitt goes, was raised Mormon, His father ran for president and lost the Nom to Nixon, and was also Governor of another "Blue" state of Michigan from 63-69, He was a very strong supporter of Civil rights and his Mormon religion had zero barring on his policy's.

 

Education of how policy's effect this country should be the only issue that matters. People voting because someone is the same (or lack of) religion as them, the way they look, they way they bullshit and twist the law, is how we got such a dumbass president to begin with. In the meantime I see very little discussion going towards policy's which will not only effect US citizens, but as Upstarter said. the entire world. We owe it the world to make right the huge lapse on major issues we the people got wrong, not once but 4 times!

[Guest Snarkalicious]

I'm all for Ron Paul.

[Japedo]

Iowa results are in:

 

 

Republican: Huckabee (WTF???)

 

 

I know Madame M! This is a huge surprise.. He didn't win close either, he won by a freaking landslide... Ron Paul came in 5th and got 10% of the vote and came in above Giuliani who only won 4% of the vote.

 

Huck will get a bounce into NH, I'll be voting for Mitt after this... and most likely Obama (If he gets the Nom) in the General..

 

ETA: Clinton came in 3rd place, I was expecting maybe second but not 3rd..this is a huge blow to her campaign. If she doesn't place first in NH, she's done.

[Japedo]

There's nothing liberal about IOWA.... and Giuliani has obviously given up any idea of competing in that state with his tainted New York liberal views ..... Huckabee and Obama are now labelled the official fundamentalists of the campaign

 

 

First, Rudy will have to win non-liberal states if he wants the "Republican" nom. He wont even make it to the general if this is the mindset. He can't with with just 3 or four states which happen to sway 'liberal', he has to get his party on board to give him the pass to run in the General. He will not win if he chooses to ignore 50% of his own base. The Republicans are the Christian block group, and they need to be courted if he's serious about obtaining the nom.

 

Rudy won't win NH, NH is considered a Swing state, If Rudy can't win Iowa, what makes you think he'll win any of the buybull belt states that are needed to require the nomination?

 

 

Obama is a clear upset, and hasn't done any bible thumping, has not played the race card, is anti-corporates controlling everything, and pro bringing jobs back to the country. The Democrats as a whole don't focus on the buybull bullshit and try to distance it from their party platform. He is a gifted speaker and inspires people which is something that's been lacking in any recent American political races. Hillary still has a shot of winning NH, but she has an uphill battle at this point, and as stated, She's no Bill, she lacks charisma and charm that her husband had.

 

As of Yesterday, Hillary and Obama were in a dead heat tie, He gets the bounce from Iowa. We'll know Tuesday how she does. She might pull off a win and then it's anyone game going in to S.C.

[SWIM]

Mike,

 

It's hypocritical of you to vote for anyone running in this election if you believe faith/belief in a god is a form of a injured mental state. How are you to know anyone's hearts and minds? How are you to know a current atheists or non believer won't be 'saved' once you vote them into office? How do you know the less religious ones that you currently support won't keep their dogma at bay until they win the prize?

 

It's the degree of belief that I think is mental illness. NOT incurable, maybe not permanet, and most certainly *not* the only factor by a long shot. Being religiously delusional, may not be as severe, as say "special ed" from crankyankers, but it is a serious consideration as to the person's mindset. And it's not *just* in the label, it's how convicted they are about their belief, and the likelyhood as to wether or not it will effect presidental decisions like world politics.

 

We don't know if any of them will be either saved or deconverted in the future, all we have is the data we have now to go on.

 

Do you honestly believe all atheists have no mental issues? Are you serious?

 

Hell no, and I never implied that either. I personally have mental issues. Of course I don't believe that. When choosing a candidate though, *many* issues about the person running need to be made clear. How they believe is an indication to at least a *portion* of their psych. It is not the end all and be all of the decision process. Since people can sometimes feel *strongly* (suicide bombers) about their religion, we as a voting society, need to give it due weight and consideration, but it is not the ONLY factor of course, that's just common sense.

 

You have the same black and white mentality many Christians have about atheists, You are controlled by your fear of those not like you. You'll only vote for the star bellied sneeches, and there are none running in this election. NO one currently running is a non-believer. Why not run yourself if you have such strong convictions about it?

 

No I don't, you just think I do. I see all angles, but I feel strongly this is an important angle. I am not a simplton idiot that fears, oh say black people, or asians because I am not one. You misjudge me very strongly. I feel that not only WHAT they believe, but how STRONGLY they believe, is an element, an important element into how they might lead. Judge me all you want, but you are dead ass, totally wrong about me.

 

Rudy might be a catholic, but so? It's proven with is record he'll prosecute, shut down and go after those who openly offend his religion. He put together a decency task force for god sakes to save the virgin mary.

 

Well I am certainly not in love with him either, in fact to a certain extent, ALL the candidates suck. If what you say above is true, then hey! Thank you for the information, that's what this thread is all about anyway, my initial research for this thread was not in-depth. I didn't know that, but I am glad I do now.

 

 

As far as Mitt goes, was raised Mormon, His father ran for president and lost the Nom to Nixon, and was also Governor of another "Blue" state of Michigan from 63-69, He was a very strong supporter of Civil rights and his Mormon religion had zero barring on his policy's.

 

Education of how policy's effect this country should be the only issue that matters. People voting because someone is the same (or lack of) religion as them, the way they look, they way they bullshit and twist the law, is how we got such a dumbass president to begin with. In the meantime I see very little discussion going towards policy's which will not only effect US citizens, but as Upstarter said. the entire world. We owe it the world to make right the huge lapse on major issues we the people got wrong, not once but 4 times!

 

I do not feel voting based on religion exclusively is a good idea, but it gives us at least a small amount more insight into who we have running, not a black and white all or nothing decision based on religion alone. It is only a factor. IMO it is a big factor.

[Japedo]

We don't know if any of them will be either saved or deconverted in the future, all we have is the data we have now to go on.

 

I agree whole heartily Mike, which is why looking at their past policy's is a huge indicator of their future ones.

 

 

Hell no, and I never implied that either. I personally have mental issues. Of course I don't believe that. When choosing a candidate though, *many* issues about the person running need to be made clear. How they believe is an indication to at least a *portion* of their psych. It is not the end all and be all of the decision process. Since people can sometimes feel *strongly* (suicide bombers) about their religion, we as a voting society, need to give it due weight and consideration, but it is not the ONLY factor of course, that's just common sense.

 

I'm sorry I thought you did imply it when you said

We know an atheist would not act on a "dream", but a mormon? Or ex-minister? hmmm

If I read or interpreted that wrong I apologize. I was taking it in a literal sense. The only one that has the mind of a tali-born-again in this race on either side of the isle is Huckabee. Who I'm absolutely dumbfounded and scared he won with such a huge margin. He will get a bounce from it, but we'll just have to see how big. Hopefully BurnedOut was right saying he was going to fizzle out.

 

 

 

You have the same black and white mentality many Christians have about atheists, You are controlled by your fear of those not like you. You'll only vote for the star bellied sneeches, and there are none running in this election. NO one currently running is a non-believer. Why not run yourself if you have such strong convictions about it?

 

No I don't, you just think I do. I see all angles, but I feel strongly this is an important angle. I am not a simplton idiot that fears, oh say black people, or asians because I am not one. You misjudge me very strongly. I feel that not only WHAT they believe, but how STRONGLY they believe, is an element, an important element into how they might lead. Judge me all you want, but you are dead ass, totally wrong about me.

 

Mike, I'm addressing things that you've said in your own post. I never stated you were a simpleton idiot, and fear is not the same as stupid, why are you trying to make this all about some attack on you, it's not. I addressed issues I had with some of your comments, there is no need to feel I'm judging you. It is absurd for you to think I'd judge anyone based upon a disagreement or upon a political opinion, I'd like to think I'm not so shallow. Christ.. we all disagree with each other at points in our lives, disagreement is what brings about growth and knowledge.

 

If you found my comments to color you stupid and and a simpleton, I apologize, I was addressing a few things you said, not your whole entire character.. geesh. I just see a little emotionalism and less rationality because of someone's less then popular choice of religion.

 

What's wrong with fear anyway? I fear Huckabee's win, I fear it greatly, I think we all have good reason to fear zealots. Not all Christians are zealots and this is the line that seems to be blurred reading some of your posts.

 

Huckabee is a Baptist minister who helped put a full page ad in the USA today that women need to submit to their husbands. Huckabee is running his campaign on completely GOD and COUNTRY, and 'restoring this country back to buybull basics'.

 

Mitt the Mormon only answers religious questions when the press hounds and raises issues, there is a huge difference. The guy is in a catch 22 in this instance, He's damned if he answers (i.e. he must be a zealot) and he's damned if he doesn't. (he's got something to hide from that dark sided religion) He isn't making his faith an issue, the press is. I have not seen him advocate any sort of theocracy. I have not seen it when he was Gov. of MA, I do not see it now. His faith is his personal issue and he isn't dragging it in to make his dogma the only state recognized one like Huck is. That is the difference.

 

Well I am certainly not in love with him either, in fact to a certain extent, ALL the candidates suck.

I do not feel voting based on religion exclusively is a good idea, but it gives us at least a small amount more insight into who we have running, not a black and white all or nothing decision based on religion alone. It is only a factor. IMO it is a big factor.

 

You will get no argument from me with this statement, I agree again whole heartily. Huck is the only person running I have reason to hold their religion against them. It is because he openly states he will institute his belief and dogma as policy. His track record also backs up his promise. I don't see any of the other candidates running that allows religion to control their lives and the lives of their loved ones. There's only one and that's the zealot Huck- the Tali-born-again- preacher.

[Japedo]

Absolutely right.... This election will once again highlight the religious and value divide in the US as christian buybull states become more radical and less educated with time. If they keep on settting the tone with more and more conservatives in the courts and senate, I definitely see a civil war within 20 years.

 

There's a threshold of hypocrisy you can't cross and Giuliani decided not to cross it. If you have to cater to a brainwashed diminishing intellect so-called 'Christian block group' then you've lost your democracy. There's no way I'd want a Huckabee as head of state..... this is..... NUTS

 

LOL Reeby...

 

Only the republicans have to lock in the Fundy-Bots, after this nomination processes you can go on any conservative board and watch them all (The fundy base) cry how they were being used to win the nom but are now pushed aside to pander to the evil godless America. LOL It happens every time.

 

Primary's and caucuses only represent the party's not the country. Independents and/or Moderates can only vote if they declare themsevles a party member even if just for the day.

 

The dems have a whole different set of people to pander to. Giuliani is the one that chose to run as a republican, make no mistake he knows full well what he needs to do if he wants to win the prize. Also, Bloomburg has stated he will run as a 3rd party if Rudy gets the nom, I frankly don't think Rudy will make it to super Tuesday, but I could be wrong.

[ShackledNoMore]

I don't see a single one that does not concern me. The good news is that there are not many Huckabees out there who is chomping at the bit to turn this country into a full fledged fascist theocracy. The bad news is that there is not a one who isn't pandering to (or actually in the direction of is a better term) the religious right (or the religionists who would allows to move more gently toward the agenda of the religious right). I suppose the least objectionable on their religious basis only (ignoring the rest of the picture) would be Clinton, Obama, and Paul (in order from least to more bad, based on their being clouded by or willing to pander to religion ONLY).

 

I would trust Dennis Kucinich on religion more than anyone listed. Was he omitted because he was a minor contender who had no chance? He didn't drop out of the race while I wasn't paying attention, did he?

 

Oh, BTW, I agree with Japedo on Mitt. I think his mormon status (in and of itself) makes him equally gullible with the others, neither more nor less. There is so much crapola to go around in the rest of the cult. It almost becomes a matter of degree and how deeply they buy into their own crapola. True, mormons in general are rather fundy (mormon flavor), but those who literally believe in a 6000 year old earth, talking snakes, global floods, and they're speaking some bonafide language when they babble in their "tongues" are just as whacked and gullible as the mormons, even without gullibly believing the yarn of some dude and his golden tablets and his seer stones.

[SWIM]

Guess I read you post wrong Japedo, been in a strange mood, meds an all lately I guess.

 

Tali-born-again! I love this new phrase, so fitting. Huckabee wins iowa??? Oh boy...

 

Can we reshuffle the deck and start the race over? I want a new deck though, too many jokers in this one...

 

After the race pretty much gets narrowed to two, that's when it's really gonna get interesting. LOL