HuaiDan Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 It just occurred to me... If it hadn't been for the rapid rise and spread of Christianity, which traces back to Judaism as its roots, after the transition of the Roman Empire, then Judaism would have probably died long ago, a long-forgotten desert cult, the remnants inevitably swallowed up by Islam. Thoughts? Speculation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I think that's probably accurate. They were forced to group together due to xian persecution over the centuries. Xians have consistantly kept Jews in ghettos forcing them to maintain identity and community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahh! Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I'm not sure if there would of necessarily been an Islam without the rise of Christianity though. It's hard to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celsus Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Prior to the rise of Christianity, Judaism claimed upward of 10% of the population of the Roman Empire as well as significant amounts of the population of other areas in the Levant, outside of Roman jurisdiction. Islam would never have arisen without Christianity, as it was initially a reformation of Christianity. Jews were a protected class in Imperial Rome, they were not persecuted for their beliefs. The Judean Revolts were that, Judean, not Jewish. There were significant Jewish Legions in the Roman Army and Jews were highly valuable members of Roman society, particularly because Jews were almost 100% literate and educated. Julius Caesar conquered Eqypt and appointed Cleopatra Queen, by using Jewish Legions, plus the one Roman (Italian) Legion that he had with him. Jews as a class were ONLY persecuted after Christianity gained power in Imperial Rome and the governments that followed. In the early part of the common era, Judaism was an evangelical faith, unlike today. What changed Judaism significantly were the laws, persecutions and demonizations they endured under Christians and in modern times, from Muslims as well. Another issue that most people do not know in our modern times, is that Rome did not conquer Judea, like they did Gaul, Eqypt or Britain. The Judeans had a civil war ongoing, each side backed by the two remnants of the Greco-Alexandrian empire. Judean leaders appealed to Rome to intervene, settle the dispute and Judea was initially accepted as a "Friend and Ally of the Roman People", not as a conquered state. Only later, due to the incessant infighting in Judea, did Rome intervene to support the "legitimate rulers" at their request. Judea revolted several times, the first being the revolt in 65 - 70 CE and finally again in 135 CE. After the last eruption in 135 CE, Rome had had enough and finally pulled out the large can of whoop ass. Jewish people who did not live in Judea were not enslaved, persecuted or othewise impacted, hell many of them were on the side of the Roman State, because they were Roman Citizens, like Paul. Judea in the 1st and 2nd centuries was the South Carolina of the 1800's or the Afghanistan of modern time. Lots of infighting, lots of potential or real rebellions and basically the same crap we see today in the same place. http://muse.jhu.edu/demo/shofar/v024/24.3schoenfeld.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 After the last eruption in 135 CE, Rome had had enough and finally pulled out the large can of whoop ass. Am I the only one who laughed their ass off upon reading the above quoted line?!?!? The entire quote, up to that point, sounded educated and well put together. Then it mentioned "large can of whoop ass"... Oh well... Guess y'had'ta be there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celsus Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 "A Large Can of Whoopass" is a technical term for those of us in the South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MultifariousBirdLady Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 It just occurred to me...If it hadn't been for the rapid rise and spread of Christianity, which traces back to Judaism as its roots, after the transition of the Roman Empire, then Judaism would have probably died long ago, a long-forgotten desert cult, the remnants inevitably swallowed up by Islam. Thoughts? Speculation? I'm not so sure about that. Judaism's laws form many social boundaries which help to preserve the group as a distinct socio-religious entity regardless of the surrounding culture. I think there's good evidence that the emphasis on the importance of keeping those laws within the Jewish faith is what has preserved their religious and cultural traditions so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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