Jillian Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Hi All, On another forum at the moment, I am in a discussion with someone who claims that they don't follow any religion, however, they mention the concepts of satan, jesus, heaven and creator...ad nauseum in their "case" to "prove" they are not religious! lol They also say that they are not a "believer" or one of faith, but instead a "knower" because of a conversation they claim to have had with "god" in heaven...PRIOR to their earthly birth.. *cough* Here are a few snippets of what I have been dealing with: Hi, first of all the word "god" itself, is a name, like many others eg, allah, jehova, etc given by mankind to something they "barely" understand, they are "earthly" names not at all heavenly, lol The "image" of god as a judgemental, vengeful hateful punishing god is FALSE, it was also created by mankind and not at all the creators reality! Oh and by the way im not a believer...........I'm a "knower" and Our brother Jesus was also not born athiest, he too did not have to be told who god was, he was the first of gods children to "remember" who he really was and he spent the rest of his life trying to help the rest of us remember too. this is why he called us brothers and sisters and why he said "do ye not know ye are gods?" The word of god seems to be a mystery to many so here is a reminder...... Before we were born god said to all; "You will know me by my name, my word and my name are the same." Here is another "reminder" The "word" of god is singular. This means that there is literally only one word of god. The original purpose of the "written word" was to act as a confirmation of what had actually happened. We are not to believe anything we read without confirmation, likewise anything we are told without confirmation of experience. Not all opinions are valid, only the opinions that come from experience are valid. Imagine if everyone owned their words with experience. if we spoke from experience or not at all. I think many would be speechless, lol a lie = anything that comes out of your mouth that you repeat to another that was not your experience I triple double dog dare you and anyone who reads this to pick up a bible and open it anywhere and read what is in front of you but..... be discerning.....ONLY the words that bring you joy and comfort, etc come from god the rest come from another source. A "believer" is someone who stopped seeking the truth at what they were told or read A "knower" is someone who goes beyond believing to knowing and: I will tell you my last memory just before I was born. “It was finally my turn to be born and I was so very excited, all the souls in heaven had excitedly gathered around to see me “offâ€. The last thing I remember was calling out to all those I was leaving behind, saying “I will remember…………….. I won’t forget.†Umm... Is it just me or do others see this person as a little...umm.... deluded??????? Thoughts please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Before I even got the the bottom of your post, I was thinking "this person is delusional." They're not a believer, they're a "knower." Yah. OK... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Hi All, On another forum at the moment, I am in a discussion with someone who claims that they don't follow any religion, however, they mention the concepts of satan, jesus, heaven and creator...ad nauseum in their "case" to "prove" they are not religious! lol They also say that they are not a "believer" or one of faith, but instead a "knower" because of a conversation they claim to have had with "god" in heaven...PRIOR to their earthly birth.. *cough* Here are a few snippets of what I have been dealing with: <snip> Umm... Is it just me or do others see this person as a little...umm.... deluded??????? Thoughts please? Sorry, I can't make myself read it. I trust Kelli. If you want rational debate, hang around rational folk. If it is important to you that claims can be verified with science and logic, hang around like-minded people. If you want to project your inner experiences onto the universe and personify them as almighty entities capable of universal thought and knowledge, if you want to discuss the deeper mysteries and escapades of these entities and how they impact humanity, if you want to know all the secrets of all that has ever been and will ever be--then you might want to hang around this person who knows all these things. People who existed before they were born and who go on have reincarnations after they die have very different views of life than people who believe conception is the beginning and death is the end. There is also much between these two extremes. I don't think I am in a position to judge who is right. As someone mentioned, this is not exactly an atheist forum. The common theme is exChristian. It was started by a person who once was a Christian and deconverted. It is maintained for the support of people who once were Christian and deconverted. We have a special section set up for people who want to talk about spirituality. The name is Ex-Christian Theism or Spirituality. What I'm trying to say is, you're quite welcome here even if you don't identify as atheist. I'm just a regular member (not a mod or anything) but I lived through the events that led to setting up that section and I think the name speaks for itself. Besides, we have Christians, Buddhists, Pagans, etc. here. As for a person saying they're not religious. Yesterday I read a discussion on here by someone who claimed to be a Messianic Jew but not religious. Not much seemed to be wrong with that person. Just different cultures, different life experiences, and different ways of defining the word "religious." That is what I concluded. The person you are talking about might be a different situation. Religion allows--nay encourages--for nut cases to go undiagnosed, depending on the type and situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Sounds like an exMormon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Sounds like an exMormon. I was just going to say that it sound Mormon-ish due to the pre-existence philosophy and "our brother Jesus." But definitely deluded as well. May have been told/believed this since childhood possibly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jillian Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 Hi Kelli, Tah for your reply and to Ruby Sera, thank you for your comments too. I do have to say though, I am a former xian and now Atheist and as this interaction between the person I mentioned myself was ON an atheism forum as I hazard a guess that the street-corner evangelising wasn't working for them either!. That is why I actually posted their comments here, TO get a different "feel" from those who may not be atheists as I am, to see if they did or did not "see" them as being a little "whacko" or perhaps in a state of self-denial, as I see them personally to be. My personal immediate "take" on things is not always what I eventually perceive to be "right" and all I wanted was some other "takes" on the comments, so I had additional fodder to work with, within my own mind. I for one don't always hang around with "like-minded" folk only, as there would never be any additional mind "food for thought" and frankly, I like to be challenged constantly, hence again posting the comments here, TO see if others with differing "beliefs" read something different into the comments, hence, joining here. I do have RL friends who believe they are re-incarnates, speak/interact with those "passed" etc... but none I know, as the example shown above, quote biblical reference, or even refer to ANY "religious" god/creator figure for that matter.. to them...it is all "within"....but ...THIS person was a different "egg" and to me seems to be a walking/writing contradiction and to me, not quite sure of what theyclaimed to know or believe. I just wanted others thoughts ON it, Ruby Sera, not actually how I should go about dealing with them per se. Thank you again though. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jillian Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 Sounds like an exMormon. I was just going to say that it sound Mormon-ish due to the pre-existence philosophy and "our brother Jesus." But definitely deluded as well. May have been told/believed this since childhood possibly... Hi graphicsguy and HereticZero. Tah for your replies. I was thinking there was mormon influence there too in their comments. Again tah to you both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gusdafa Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Sounds like an exMormon. Haha... my thoughts excatly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsmoke Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Aye, that bit about her person's "last memory before being born" definitely smacks of the Mormon pre-existence. In 17 years as a Mo myself, though, I don't recall ever meeting anyone claiming to have knowledge or memories from "beyond the veil," as the Mormons would put it. This person is definitely a few fries short of a happy meal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrisonjj Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Indeed, this has all the trappings of self delusion. I've noticed that when people really fuck up their lives they turn to big daddy god and are mysteriously reborn again! Ever notice how many criminals in jail turn to fuckin god for a new vision for their lives. Perhaps its the overwhelming feeling of powerlessness that becomes the focus of their lives. Doesn't all religion follow a self hypnosis? Catholics, for example chant hail marys over and over in monotone, a self hypnotic trans in itself. Jillian presents interesting thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Jil... Be honest in my assessment? "Chain puller" "Bullshit artiste" "Fuckwad with an agenda just short of being fully deep fried" Nothing this poster has said semantically indicated any seriousness. It is put up for you to grasp at and them play you like a cat and string. "Cry bullshit! Let loooooose the hacks of netwar!" Fuck them, they are doing little but sucking precious time out of your life being an either ignorant willing fuckwit, or an unwilling, but still fuckwitted waste of your time. kFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Hi Kelli, Tah for your reply and to Ruby Sera, thank you for your comments too. I do have to say though, I am a former xian and now Atheist I had you mixed up with another new member who mentioned not being atheist. Sorry. I went back to the other thread after posting to this one and realized my mistake. I hoped it wasn't too far out. As stated, we've pretty much got the full spectrum of belief/unbelief here when it regards deities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 I agree with Kevin... This guy sounds more like a troll than someone that's deluded. I mean, NOBODY can be THAT deluded, can they?!?!?! Ha! After this many years at ExC., I should know better than to ask that question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jillian Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 Indeed, this has all the trappings of self delusion. I've noticed that when people really fuck up their lives they turn to big daddy god and are mysteriously reborn again! Ever notice how many criminals in jail turn to fuckin god for a new vision for their lives. Perhaps its the overwhelming feeling of powerlessness that becomes the focus of their lives.Doesn't all religion follow a self hypnosis? Catholics, for example chant hail marys over and over in monotone, a self hypnotic trans in itself. Jillian presents interesting thought! Hi garrisonj, Well thank you! I do try to be open-minded, but this person sent of all sorts of alarmbells in my head and I HAD to ask myself, IS this person serious or just "taking the piss"? The more they post however the more serious I perceive them to be...as in they actually tend to BELIEVE what they are writing...oops...should that be, what they claim to "KNOW"? lol IF I were party to a christian or religious site, perhaps I could understand their attempts at 'witnessing", however to me they come across as someone trying to save as many Atheist "souls" they can with their deluded babble and yes they DO in a sense "chant" the same ol' same ol' ad nauseum! I thought I was being harsh writing them off as a whackjob but at least now I know I am not alone in that synopsis! J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jillian Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 Hi Kelli, Tah for your reply and to Ruby Sera, thank you for your comments too. I do have to say though, I am a former xian and now Atheist I had you mixed up with another new member who mentioned not being atheist. Sorry. I went back to the other thread after posting to this one and realized my mistake. I hoped it wasn't too far out. As stated, we've pretty much got the full spectrum of belief/unbelief here when it regards deities. Hi Ruby Sera! Nah, no prob at all and your comments were not too far out! lol I can understand, that as there are so many posters on here that wires can cross, so all is good! ;-) I joined a while back and actually remember you as being someone who replied to my "anti-testimony" ...way back in July 2007, and were taken aback that I replied TO you as to it! lol I have been busy with LIFE so until now have not really had an opportunity to delve into the site all that much until now. Nice to see you again and look forward to further interactions. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Oh and by the way im not a believer...........I'm a "knower" Translation: "I am an arrogant, deluded asshat." That poster isn't playing with a full deck. It sounds like they've created their own little fantasy world and ensconced themselves safely within it, unfettered by the shackles of cruel reality. I wouldn't touch 'em with a ten foot Zoloft. Welcome to the fora, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrisonjj Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Oh and by the way im not a believer...........I'm a "knower" Translation: "I am an arrogant, deluded asshat." That poster isn't playing with a full deck. It sounds like they've created their own little fantasy world and ensconced themselves safely within it, unfettered by the shackles of cruel reality. I wouldn't touch 'em with a ten foot Zoloft. Welcome to the fora, btw. Yes! A fuckin knower! He must have been born again by fuckinchrist! Now he sees the light even though he is not a believer! I can see him chanting fucking babble verses on the corner! alleluia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 I mean, NOBODY can be THAT deluded, can they?!?!?! Ummmmm.... Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wertbag Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 I just love the sentance "a lie = anything that comes out of your mouth that you repeat to another that was not your experience". Its always great to redefine words in advance so that you can win your own arguements later by claiming everyone else is lying... Hes basically saying anything thats not first hand knowledge is a lie. I've never been to Spain, should I therefore never state that I know it exists? I've seen this alot where debates solely revolve around definitions, God = a source of life giving energy (therefore the sun is "god", do you believe?), Atheist = agnostic to all but one god (you can't deny gods you haven't even heard of or know the proof of, so surely you aren't actually atheist to everything, just the christian god in particular?), love = the energy of god (do you feel love? do you see love in others? Then you must know god...). Its the old strawman but done in a kind of sneaky way. You agree to a definition that sounds logical, only to find its different enough to mean something completely incorrect, then you either retract and appear wrong for it, or try to redefine the term and end up avoiding any actual meaningful discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sojourner Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Hi Jillian When I read your quotes it reminded me of A Course in Miracles speak. And is the New Age bible if you will. I could be wrong for sure but Ive known folks that were very into those teachings and they talked just like your poster. Sojourner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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