GraphicsGuy Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 ...and now...well...I'm discovering I'm just an ordinary dumbass like everyone else. Dammit! So yeah, special thanks to Xianity for encouraging me to be the uncultured swine that I am today! The backwater hick, the uneducated slob! Yeah, thanks for nuthin' ya durn fukked up r'ligis squabs! I read what so many of you post and I have to look stuff up and read and analyze and realize...holy fuck...I know Jack Fuckin' Shit! And I'm not posting this to have my ego stroked! No, no, no. Not the case at all. I'm proud enough of myself for trying even if I do swallow both feet up to my knees at times. It's just that I've been pushed over the edge and I'm falling without a paddle...I know that analogy doesn't make sense and that's why it so accurately describes the situation! I am Mark. I'm an ex-Christian. I am a downright bloody arrogant fool who knows Jack Fuckin' Shit. My learning curve is not a curve, but a 90° angle to vertical... ...and I wouldn't have it any other way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 My learning curve is not a curve, but a 90° angle to vertical... That rite cheer done shows me wut edumacatum you be havin! Take's sum gaw-dern noobuls to be tinkin up dat stuff rite der naw! You're a pretty bright guy, and you have given me pretty decent advice on graphics before too. Smart isn't always book smart, I am dumb as a stump in some areas. Being wise is "knowing" you lack in knowledge. There are lots of people out there that "think" they know more then they do. The thread "fundies say the darnest things" should cheer you up. You are higher up on the food chain then you give yourself credit for, you seem pretty bright to this dim bulb lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I'd not have accounted GG as a dumb redneck... TBH, the only people I've walked away from interchanges just feeling older, and no wiser, have been the bible bashers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 The thread "fundies say the darnest things" should cheer you up. Oh, I'm right familiar with FSTDT...I browse it quite often. I even have a YouTube vid of some of my favorites... http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=DxxQbtlNyn8 Anyway, this rant was partly in jest. It's absolutely true, but I'm finding the transition from Xian Genius to Average Joe a little hard on the ol' ego! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 I'd not have accounted GG as a dumb redneck... Google provides me with a stiff collar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Yes, but as a one dumb not-as-smart-as-I-thought sod to another, we certainly are in good company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I'd not have accounted GG as a dumb redneck... Google provides me with a stiff collar... If you were a dumb redneck, sir, Google wouldn't feature since you'd have no inclination to learn... I admire earnest effort and the will to improve over most things... he says being terribly pompous and British... Kill me now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 GG, You are not alone. I think the members here, just humor me along. Though, one thing about this place is that it does make you smarter. Taph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I've learned a fair bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush country Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Ignorance can be fixed. Stupidity lasts a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telesmith Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 In my humble opinion, smart has nothing to do with knowing a bunch of stuff. That’s just called knowing a bunch of stuff. It helps but it doesn’t have anything to do with how smart you are. Smart is the ability to take what you do know and think critically about it. It’s making observations and checking them. It’s catching your own fallacies and challenging your assumptions. I guess to me, smart isn’t something you are, it’s something you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Telesmith... I think you've just hit profound... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 I guess to me, smart isn’t something you are, it’s something you do. Damn...that was GOOD! See? A new thought to chew on and put into practice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsmoke Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Read sig, apply to life when needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstarter Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Well GG you do live in Alberta, so that does show some lack of intelligence... but I'll cut you some slack. I know what you mean about this place though... sometimes I think, wow I know nothing. Theodicy... what the heck is that? I WISH that had something to do with my deconversion, then I'd really feel special. This place does keep my brain working though, so that's a good thing. Gotta give props to Telesmith though, for being so profound on what little tiny amounts of sleep he must be getting this week. Heather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 17, 2008 Author Share Posted January 17, 2008 Well GG you do live in Alberta, so that does show some lack of intelligence... Hey! If I had a choice in the matter I'd move back to BC in a heartbeat! Actually, if I had a choice I'd be wandering across the country instead of staying put... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 In my humble opinion, smart has nothing to do with knowing a bunch of stuff. That’s just called knowing a bunch of stuff. It helps but it doesn’t have anything to do with how smart you are. Smart is the ability to take what you do know and think critically about it. It’s making observations and checking them. It’s catching your own fallacies and challenging your assumptions. I guess to me, smart isn’t something you are, it’s something you do. I'm sure someone with more time can look up the references but a social scientest did experiments that demonstrated that there is a centre in the Left heminsphere of the brain that seems to be on a mission to make sense of things. That's what it does... when two facts are incongruent... it makes up explanations... and get this... right out of thin air. The experiment(s) had to do with left and right hemispheres that are completely disconnected. The right was able to record an event and the left had not seen the information. Dispite not having the information, the left made up all kinds of excuses for circumstances instead of just concluding that it didn't know. Facinating shit - to me! Anyway... it leads to the best definition of stupidity that I can think of: Stupidity is act of making sence of events regardless of evidence or lack thereof. (Please remember you heard it here first!) Ec-Christians then... are anti-stupid in that we seem to have a nature that refuses to make sense of things without sufficient evidence. Ignorance and education are therefore... not relevant in the discussion of stupidity. As well... and here is the neat thing... this explanation is consistant with the extrordinary mental capacity demonstrated when elaborate and intricate explanations are concocted out of thin air. If this part of the brain is defective (perhaps that's us) then the person is unable to create appropriate and satisfying explanations for what they want to explain however... if the subject possesses the truly "brilliant stupidity" then we now have a consistant explanation of the following: Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/stupidity.html Finally... stupidity explained. Mongo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I'm lost. I don't get the OP at all. Is someone saying he thought he was this bright guy and now he realizes there's stuff he doesn't know? Oh okay now I get it. I guess I'm just different. I always feel I'm stupid because there's so much I don't know. Truth be told, I feel more satisfied than I did ten years ago before I started formal studies. I don't feel like I want to study any more and I used to be so rabbid for study so I guess something did happen. Taph, before you tell me yet again, I know you say I'm one of the most intelligent people you know and the grades I get prove it, but that doesn't change how I feel. It's like they say--the more you know, the more aware you are of how much more there is to know. GG, I don't know if this helps you but it helps me. I know what it's like not having anything to learn. It's like being without food or water. Your brain dries up. Life was so utterly boring and meaningless that it practically drove me to suicide--I just didn't have the guts to go through with it; wasn't sure if god would forgive me; didn't know...didn't have the courage...Thus, be GLAD you don't know everything. Be GLAD for the opportunity to learn. Of course, if your self-confidence depends on being the Bright Guy, I can see that you've got problems. Maybe you need to find out that being GG is okay. Every cog on the wheel is needed; if one's missing there's problems. Outmoded analogy, I know, but maybe you know what I mean. I'm sure someone with more time can look up the references but a social scientest did experiments that demonstrated that there is a centre in the Left heminsphere of the brain that seems to be on a mission to make sense of things. That's what it does... when two facts are incongruent... it makes up explanations... and get this... right out of thin air. The experiment(s) had to do with left and right hemispheres that are completely disconnected. The right was able to record an event and the left had not seen the information. Dispite not having the information, the left made up all kinds of excuses for circumstances instead of just concluding that it didn't know. Facinating shit - to me! Anyway... it leads to the best definition of stupidity that I can think of: Stupidity is act of making sence of events regardless of evidence or lack thereof. (Please remember you heard it here first!) DISCLAIMER: I'm not a social scientist. But I would like to argue--Mongo, are you sure you haven't got your left and right hemispheres of the brain mixed up there? Oh I'm sure your brain is working just fine but your post might have them mixed up a bit. I think they say the left hemisphere is the side that does all the facts and figures and the right hemisphere is the side that makes meaning and sense out of everything. If I've got my facts straight, the left hemisphere of the brain controls the right side of the body, right eye, etc. If they were working with living human brains where the two hemispheres were separated, they must have been working with epileptic patients who had the two hemispheres surgically separated to treat the epilepsy, am I right? And they would have covered the one eye to deprive the one hemisphere of information? I'm trying to remember from Psych 101. Oh no! *groan* GG, is this kind of conversation what makes you feel stupid because we're talking stuff you don't know? Like, I have no idea what you know or don't know. In case you don't know this stuff, from my perspective I'm practicing the Golden Rule because I love it when others talk about stuff that I can learn. On the other hand, if it's way over your head--like when some of you computer techies get going it's way over my head--well, my advice is to just skip this post. I dunno. Maybe it's an insult posting it on your thread. But then, for all I know you know more about brains and neurology than I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 DISCLAIMER: I'm not a social scientist. But I would like to argue--Mongo, are you sure you haven't got your left and right hemispheres of the brain mixed up there? Oh I'm sure your brain is working just fine but your post might have them mixed up a bit. I think they say the left hemisphere is the side that does all the facts and figures and the right hemisphere is the side that makes meaning and sense out of everything. If I've got my facts straight, the left hemisphere of the brain controls the right side of the body, right eye, etc. If they were working with living human brains where the two hemispheres were separated, they must have been working with epileptic patients who had the two hemispheres surgically separated to treat the epilepsy, am I right? And they would have covered the one eye to deprive the one hemisphere of information? I'm trying to remember from Psych 101. You've got your left and right mixed up but that's an easy mistake and yes this theory developed out of studying surgically split brains of epileptics. Basic information: http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/split.html Here is a reference to the "interpreter" that I was refering to http://www.carlzimmer.com/articles/2005.ph...rom=&ucat=8& Here is a quote: Studies on split-brain patients have dominated Dr. Gazzaniga's work ever since. In the 1970's, he and his colleagues reported that the left hemisphere acts as an interpreter, creating theories to makes sense of a person's experiences. Their first clue came from an experiment Dr. Gazzaniga carried out with Dr. Joseph LeDoux, now at New York University. A patient called P.S. was shown a picture, and was then asked to choose a related image from a set of other pictures. What P.S. didn't know was that he was being shown a different image in each eye. Dr. Gazzaniga and Dr. LeDoux showed P.S. a picture of a chicken claw in his right eye and a snow-covered house in the left eye. P.S. pointed to a chicken with his right hand and a snow shovel with his left. ''I'll never forget the day we got around to asking P.S., 'Why did you do that?''' said Dr. Gazzaniga. ''He said, 'The chicken claw goes with the chicken.' That's all the left hemisphere saw. And then he looks at the shovel and said, 'The reason you need a shovel is to clean out the chicken shed.''' Dr. Gazzaniga hypothesized that P.S.'s left hemisphere made up a story to explain his actions, based on the limited information it received. Dr. Gazzaniga and his colleagues have carried out the same experiment hundreds of times since, and the left hemisphere has consistently acted this way. ''The interpreter tells the story line of a person,'' Dr. Gazzaniga said. ''It's collecting all the information that is in all these separate systems that are distributed through the brain.'' While the story feels like an unfiltered picture of reality, it's just a quickly-thrown-together narrative. There are several chicken claw type experiments that have been done and they show the left side fabricating explanations. You'll notice that the split brain person added in information (chicken coop) in order to make the shovel match the chicken & claw pictures. To me... this is no different than adding heaven to make sense of death. Mongo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 DISCLAIMER: I'm not a social scientist. But I would like to argue--Mongo, are you sure you haven't got your left and right hemispheres of the brain mixed up there? Oh I'm sure your brain is working just fine but your post might have them mixed up a bit. I think they say the left hemisphere is the side that does all the facts and figures and the right hemisphere is the side that makes meaning and sense out of everything. If I've got my facts straight, the left hemisphere of the brain controls the right side of the body, right eye, etc. If they were working with living human brains where the two hemispheres were separated, they must have been working with epileptic patients who had the two hemispheres surgically separated to treat the epilepsy, am I right? And they would have covered the one eye to deprive the one hemisphere of information? I'm trying to remember from Psych 101. You've got your left and right mixed up but that's an easy mistake and yes this theory developed out of studying surgically split brains of epileptics. Basic information: http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/split.html Okay, I just got done reading that link and I'm not sure where you and I misunderstand each other because I meant for math to be in the left hemisphere and it looks like it is for the typical person. According to this link, people are not all the same as to which hemisphere of the brain does what. Here's a brief quote on what they say: Cerebral Dominance Each hemisphere of the brain is dominant for other behaviors. For example, it appears that the right brain is dominant for spatial abilities, face recognition, visual imagery and music. The left brain may be more dominant for calculations, math and logical abilities. Of course, these are generalizations and in normal people, the two hemispheres work together, are connected, and share information through the corpus callosum. Much of what we know about the right and left hemispheres comes from studies in people who have had the corpus callosum split - this surgical operation isolates most of the right hemisphere from the left hemisphere. This type of surgery is performed in patients suffering from epilepsy. The corpus callosum is cut to prevent the spread of the "epileptic seizure" from one hemisphere to the other. Dominant Functions Left Hemisphere Language Math Logic Right Hemisphere Spatial abilities Face recognition Visual imagery Music http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/split.html It's divided differently than I thought it would be. I was sure language would be right-brain and face recognition would be left-brain because I'm supposed to be right-brained and I'm good with language and poor with face recognition. But math is safely tucked away in left-brain. I couldn't make numbers obey me if my life depended on it. I don't have out-and-out dyslexia but I know not to meddle with numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 19, 2008 Author Share Posted January 19, 2008 I'm lost. I don't get the OP at all. Is someone saying he thought he was this bright guy and now he realizes there's stuff he doesn't know? Oh okay now I get it. I guess I'm just different. LOL...Hey Ruby, it's okay...in the OP I was mostly poking fun at myself. As a Xian I used to get pretty arrogant at times, think I was all that, thought I was a genius, etc. It was kind of over-compensation for feeling so depressed and like absolute shit most of the time, but still it was some pretty ugly arrogance at times. Anyway, I was mostly saying, "The more I learn, the less I know" in a very round-about, unclear manner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 I'm lost. I don't get the OP at all. Is someone saying he thought he was this bright guy and now he realizes there's stuff he doesn't know? Oh okay now I get it. I guess I'm just different. LOL...Hey Ruby, it's okay...in the OP I was mostly poking fun at myself. As a Xian I used to get pretty arrogant at times, think I was all that, thought I was a genius, etc. It was kind of over-compensation for feeling so depressed and like absolute shit most of the time, but still it was some pretty ugly arrogance at times. Anyway, I was mostly saying, "The more I learn, the less I know" in a very round-about, unclear manner... Hey thanks, graphicsguy. You're okay. I like reading your posts. I hope you stick around a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Now I had a chance to read the article at your other link. Fascinating stuff! Here is a reference to the "interpreter" that I was refering tohttp://www.carlzimmer.com/articles/2005.ph...rom=&ucat=8& Here is a quote: Studies on split-brain patients have dominated Dr. Gazzaniga's work ever since. In the 1970's, he and his colleagues reported that the left hemisphere acts as an interpreter, creating theories to makes sense of a person's experiences. Their first clue came from an experiment Dr. Gazzaniga carried out with Dr. Joseph LeDoux, now at New York University. A patient called P.S. was shown a picture, and was then asked to choose a related image from a set of other pictures. What P.S. didn't know was that he was being shown a different image in each eye. Dr. Gazzaniga and Dr. LeDoux showed P.S. a picture of a chicken claw in his right eye and a snow-covered house in the left eye. P.S. pointed to a chicken with his right hand and a snow shovel with his left. ''I'll never forget the day we got around to asking P.S., 'Why did you do that?''' said Dr. Gazzaniga. ''He said, 'The chicken claw goes with the chicken.' That's all the left hemisphere saw. And then he looks at the shovel and said, 'The reason you need a shovel is to clean out the chicken shed.''' Dr. Gazzaniga hypothesized that P.S.'s left hemisphere made up a story to explain his actions, based on the limited information it received. Dr. Gazzaniga and his colleagues have carried out the same experiment hundreds of times since, and the left hemisphere has consistently acted this way. ''The interpreter tells the story line of a person,'' Dr. Gazzaniga said. ''It's collecting all the information that is in all these separate systems that are distributed through the brain.'' While the story feels like an unfiltered picture of reality, it's just a quickly-thrown-together narrative. There are several chicken claw type experiments that have been done and they show the left side fabricating explanations. You'll notice that the split brain person added in information (chicken coop) in order to make the shovel match the chicken & claw pictures. To me... this is no different than adding heaven to make sense of death. Mongo Could be. I'm having a hard time actually making the connection between the neurological workings of the brain and the abstractions of religious belief. From a psychological perspective I understand that this is the way some people's minds operate. I don't know if or not they can help it. Dr. Gazzaniga apparently believes there's a neurological basis for ethics. I am extremely skeptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marty Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Ruby, I see it kinda like this, but my left brain may be making up its own information to make sense of it! You said you would think the right brain would be responsible for "making up" things to make sense of the information, not the left. This is what I would have thought too. But is the left hemisphere really "making up" anything? It is looking at 2 bits of information and trying to see where or how they connect. So it is using reason to conclude that if a chicken and a shovel are around, the shovel must have a function that connects to the chicken, and using past information it has collected in past situations it assumes the shovel is for cleaning the coop. It makes logical sense to the brain, even if there is not evidence to back up the conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Something of interest... people who hear voices usually have an over active Broca's and Wernicke's area in the right hemisphere. The left hemisphere's areas are used for language processing (speaking, translating incoming language, reading... cool stuff like that) MRI's of schizophrenics show the right centres light up during fugue states. They also can be trigged by stray magnetic fields, which have been clinically shown to cause 'mystical' experiences... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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