Guest GuitarHound Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Hi guys, I didn't know were to put this and I don't want to Hog the forum, but I had an interesting conversation with the Assemby of God Pastor a few years ago. After a Sunday service, We went to Lunch with the Pastors family and some members. During our lunch I posed him this analogy. "Pastor, I'm a deep thinker and I posed this analogy to a friend of mine... Would you place an innocent New born baby smack in the middle of a maximum prison? Lets say this Prison has a nice little courtyard and playpen that would accomodate the infant... The Prison is full of the worst lot of society...Muderers, Rapists,Psycho's,Thieves, ect...and the prison is run by the biggest baddest most evil person known...The child would be raised by them. My question is: Would anything good come out of this child?" Pastor says" I'll have to Ponder on this"...I answered for him and said NO ...the child would end up evil just like them...he would emulate his role models and be influenced by his surroundings. But that's exactly what God did...he placed two innocent beings in a garden knowing well beforehand that they would fail...yes he gave them instruction Not to eat of the Fruit...but he set them up...because he "allowed" the Talking lying snake to roam freely in the garden. And as I understand, before the creation of man there was a great battle in heaven where Lucifer and 1/3 of the angelic host were transformed into demons and cast down on the Earth. So I don't unserstand how did God planned to create a perfect world when he placed innocent man surrounded by Satan and his demons. And God is Omniscient so he knew in advance that they were going to Blow it...so it was all a set up. Adam and Eve were NO match for the cunning manipulitave intellect of this creature that God had created and cast him upon the Earth. They were doomed from the start...and I just don't understand why God just didn't cast Satan and his bunch to the Sun!!!... it's pretty hot up there. God, Jesus, the Host of heaven, and the demons just sat on the sideline watching Satan whisper in Eve's ear and the whole plan unfolding causing the "Fall of Man". Then he "walks" in the Garden and doesn't find them so he calls out to them...after he finds out what they did...he punishes all three...and put a Flaming sword around the Tree of Life..why didn't he just put a Flaming sword around the whole garden and the talking snake wouldn't of got in and we wouldn't be in this mess!...The Pastor and others were just looking at me with stunned looks...Pastor in his all Holy Wisdom finally speaks and says "Yes, God knew in advance that they would fall, but it's not for us to question God's divine will and plan for mankind. Someday he will answer all your questions" I just silently thought to myself, This guy has a Degree in Divinity and working on his Doctorate and that's the best he can do??? I can't figure this out... in a Nutshell, I guess God just got bored up there and had to create man, set him up for a fall, and several thousand years later got off his throne to come down here only to have his creaion to Kill him and put him on a tree...then go back to his throne and provide an eternal home for his creation. After my conversation with the Pastor I was never asked out to Lunch again. I guess there just not into mind stimulating topics. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aexapo Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Hi guys, I didn't know were to put this and I don't want to Hog the forum, but I had an interesting conversation with the Assemby of God Pastor a few years ago. After a Sunday service, We went to Lunch with the Pastors family and some members. During our lunch I posed him this analogy. "Pastor, I'm a deep thinker and I posed this analogy to a friend of mine... Would you place an innocent New born baby smack in the middle of a maximum prison? Lets say this Prison has a nice little courtyard and playpen that would accomodate the infant... The Prison is full of the worst lot of society...Muderers, Rapists,Psycho's,Thieves, ect...and the prison is run by the biggest baddest most evil person known...The child would be raised by them. My question is: Would anything good come out of this child?" Pastor says" I'll have to Ponder on this"...I answered for him and said NO ...the child would end up evil just like them...he would emulate his role models and be influenced by his surroundings. But that's exactly what God did...he placed two innocent beings in a garden knowing well beforehand that they would fail...yes he gave them instruction Not to eat of the Fruit...but he set them up...because he "allowed" the Talking lying snake to roam freely in the garden. And as I understand, before the creation of man there was a great battle in heaven where Lucifer and 1/3 of the angelic host were transformed into demons and cast down on the Earth. So I don't unserstand how did God planned to create a perfect world when he placed innocent man surrounded by Satan and his demons. And God is Omniscient so he knew in advance that they were going to Blow it...so it was all a set up. Adam and Eve were NO match for the cunning manipulitave intellect of this creature that God had created and cast him upon the Earth. They were doomed from the start...and I just don't understand why God just didn't cast Satan and his bunch to the Sun!!!... it's pretty hot up there. God, Jesus, the Host of heaven, and the demons just sat on the sideline watching Satan whisper in Eve's ear and the whole plan unfolding causing the "Fall of Man". Then he "walks" in the Garden and doesn't find them so he calls out to them...after he finds out what they did...he punishes all three...and put a Flaming sword around the Tree of Life..why didn't he just put a Flaming sword around the whole garden and the talking snake wouldn't of got in and we wouldn't be in this mess!...The Pastor and others were just looking at me with stunned looks...Pastor in his all Holy Wisdom finally speaks and says "Yes, God knew in advance that they would fall, but it's not for us to question God's divine will and plan for mankind. Someday he will answer all your questions" I just silently thought to myself, This guy has a Degree in Divinity and working on his Doctorate and that's the best he can do??? I can't figure this out... in a Nutshell, I guess God just got bored up there and had to create man, set him up for a fall, and several thousand years later got off his throne to come down here only to have his creaion to Kill him and put him on a tree...then go back to his throne and provide an eternal home for his creation. After my conversation with the Pastor I was never asked out to Lunch again. I guess there just not into mind stimulating topics. Dan <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Degrees in "divinity" are dependent on the denomination -- most of them are absolutely worthless. You can buy one (completely legal) at the Universal Life Church for $25.00 and the trouble of a multiple choice test. Rev. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GuitarHound Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Degrees in "divinity" are dependent on the denomination -- most of them are absolutely worthless. You can buy one (completely legal) at the Universal Life Church for $25.00 and the trouble of a multiple choice test. Rev. Jay <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Rev. Jay, I might just buy one hehe...I wonder if they have one for Jewish Studies...that way I can declare myself a "Spanish" Jewish Rabbi, since I now realize that I'm Jewish!...yep that's right...You see, there were 8 jews on the Ark and after they found land they multiplied the Earth. So I don't understand this Gentile thing...according to the Bible, we are all from the Lineage of Noah...so we're All Jewish. What a Revelation Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aexapo Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Thanks Rev. Jay, I might just buy one hehe...I wonder if they have one for Jewish Studies...that way I can declare myself a "Spanish" Jewish Rabbi, since I now realize that I'm Jewish!...yep that's right...You see, there were 8 jews on the Ark and after they found land they multiplied the Earth. So I don't understand this Gentile thing...according to the Bible, we are all from the Lineage of Noah...so we're All Jewish. What a Revelation Dan <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Besides "earning" your D.D., you can also purchase religious titles -- complete with a proclamation of it to hang on your wall. You can be a Wiccan Pope, or a Shamanistic Imam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GuitarHound Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Besides "earning" your D.D., you can also purchase religious titles -- complete with a proclamation of it to hang on your wall. You can be a Wiccan Pope, or a Shamanistic Imam. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nah, I'm circumsized so I already have one of the prerequisites for being a Rabbi. Rabbi Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2balive Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 It's just a bunch of fairy tales, isn't it? I was telling my kids, what would it be like if we could take my car back in time to a bunch of cavedwellers and ask them to describe it to their friends? That could be entertaining! I'm coming to believe that folks were just trying to exlain things and keep social order by alternately dangling a few carrots and threatening people. The bible just doesn't hold up to honest intellectual scrutiny. You have to look at it "through the eyes of faith" or whatever bullshit they want to call it. I hate that I've spent so long getting programmed onto a fairy tale that demands so much time, energy and money! OK, maybe I'd better move onto rants! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxic Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 Degrees in "divinity" are dependent on the denomination -- most of them are absolutely worthless. You can buy one (completely legal) at the Universal Life Church for $25.00 and the trouble of a multiple choice test. Rev. Jay 44314[/snapback] Thanks Rev. Jay, I might just buy one hehe...I wonder if they have one for Jewish Studies...that way I can declare myself a "Spanish" Jewish Rabbi, since I now realize that I'm Jewish!...yep that's right...You see, there were 8 jews on the Ark and after they found land they multiplied the Earth. So I don't understand this Gentile thing...according to the Bible, we are all from the Lineage of Noah...so we're All Jewish. What a Revelation Dan So Jackie Mason's right! Everybody's Jewish, they just don't admit it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 i have asked christians stuff like that and they usually say god was giving them a choice or freewill. heaven? or hell? what a choice i cant figure out how that is a choice. Hi guys, I didn't know were to put this and I don't want to Hog the forum, but I had an interesting conversation with the Assemby of God Pastor a few years ago. After a Sunday service, We went to Lunch with the Pastors family and some members. During our lunch I posed him this analogy. "Pastor, I'm a deep thinker and I posed this analogy to a friend of mine... Would you place an innocent New born baby smack in the middle of a maximum prison? Lets say this Prison has a nice little courtyard and playpen that would accomodate the infant... The Prison is full of the worst lot of society...Muderers, Rapists,Psycho's,Thieves, ect...and the prison is run by the biggest baddest most evil person known...The child would be raised by them. My question is: Would anything good come out of this child?" Pastor says" I'll have to Ponder on this"...I answered for him and said NO ...the child would end up evil just like them...he would emulate his role models and be influenced by his surroundings. But that's exactly what God did...he placed two innocent beings in a garden knowing well beforehand that they would fail...yes he gave them instruction Not to eat of the Fruit...but he set them up...because he "allowed" the Talking lying snake to roam freely in the garden. And as I understand, before the creation of man there was a great battle in heaven where Lucifer and 1/3 of the angelic host were transformed into demons and cast down on the Earth. So I don't unserstand how did God planned to create a perfect world when he placed innocent man surrounded by Satan and his demons. And God is Omniscient so he knew in advance that they were going to Blow it...so it was all a set up. Adam and Eve were NO match for the cunning manipulitave intellect of this creature that God had created and cast him upon the Earth. They were doomed from the start...and I just don't understand why God just didn't cast Satan and his bunch to the Sun!!!... it's pretty hot up there. God, Jesus, the Host of heaven, and the demons just sat on the sideline watching Satan whisper in Eve's ear and the whole plan unfolding causing the "Fall of Man". Then he "walks" in the Garden and doesn't find them so he calls out to them...after he finds out what they did...he punishes all three...and put a Flaming sword around the Tree of Life..why didn't he just put a Flaming sword around the whole garden and the talking snake wouldn't of got in and we wouldn't be in this mess!...The Pastor and others were just looking at me with stunned looks...Pastor in his all Holy Wisdom finally speaks and says "Yes, God knew in advance that they would fall, but it's not for us to question God's divine will and plan for mankind. Someday he will answer all your questions" I just silently thought to myself, This guy has a Degree in Divinity and working on his Doctorate and that's the best he can do??? I can't figure this out... in a Nutshell, I guess God just got bored up there and had to create man, set him up for a fall, and several thousand years later got off his throne to come down here only to have his creaion to Kill him and put him on a tree...then go back to his throne and provide an eternal home for his creation. After my conversation with the Pastor I was never asked out to Lunch again. I guess there just not into mind stimulating topics. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToHellWithMe Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 ...Pastor in his all Holy Wisdom finally speaks and says "Yes, God knew in advance that they would fall, but it's not for us to question God's divine will and plan for mankind. Someday he will answer all your questions" I just silently thought to myself, This guy has a Degree in Divinity and working on his Doctorate and that's the best he can do??? My guess is the pastor's answer is what the Christians on this site would answer, wondering why the heathens have the energy to always strike at this kind of points. I wonder, though, why is it that this kind of questions don't seem to disturb Christians much. Mayhaps it's not a relevant question unless one has their ethical sense develop to a point this becomes a screaming, loud flaw. Then they can become most important factors to deconversion. At least in my case it was so... Anyway the contrast is curiously huge: 'reason to abandon faith' vs. 'annoying question'. In a way I find this similar very similar to when Christians point out how the secular world view is unjust in that evil doesn't get punished enough (eg Hitler escaping punishment into oblivion) and a miserable life serving some honorable cause earns no reward after death. I find these points irrelevant and shrug them off exclaiming "shit happens" as there's no reason to assume that any transcendent system of justice exists. Therefore, as you can think of an emotionally appealing example secular world view doesn't offer satisfying answer to, you can also think up one that the theist viewpoint can't answer properly. In both cases the opposition will find the point irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godless Wonder Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Just chiming in to say: Nice thread title. Brilliant use of "Analogy" and abbreviation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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