DaveL Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Ok God, We are all still awaiting delivery, with many accounts oustanding on this topic. Remember all those times we knelt with hands clasped, hoping, wishing and then...nil, zip, nought, nuthing, not a thing happened. Did you ever feel robbed? The only prayer that worked was when we got off our collective butts and did it for ourselves. So what's the point Christians? Isn't prayer just a means of postive affirmation? A motivational tool to make you get up and do stuff. Why do you need to talk to yourselves (or groups) when you can just get in there and deal with it. Also what is it with the "I'll pray for you" stuff? (see Han's recent post). Isn't that just a nice way of being patronising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Rhino Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 DaveL, My questions on prayer also include the fact that if god is all knowing, prayer is futile anyway. God already knows what the outcome 'is supposed to be'. If prayer works and mere mortals can change the mind of god then he isn't all knowing after all because he would have known he was going to change his mind thus not really changing his mind because he knew it. I have more but since praying for my coffee cup to fill itself isn;t working I have to get it myself. PR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reach Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 In all fairness I'd like to point out that prayer was also a simple form of communication and a way in which to express gratitude, not just an avenue of setting forth one's petitions and clamoring on about one's perceived needs. But like any communication between two or more parties, sometimes it's effective and fruitful and sometimes, it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveL Posted July 7, 2005 Author Share Posted July 7, 2005 In all fairness I'd like to point out that prayer was also a simple form of communication and a way in which to express gratitude, not just an avenue of setting forth one's petitions and clamoring on about one's perceived needs. But like any communication between two or more parties, sometimes it's effective and fruitful and sometimes, it's not. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, it's like yelling into the Grand Canyon without getting an echo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Shadow Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Ok God, We are all still awaiting delivery, with many accounts oustanding on this topic. Remember all those times we knelt with hands clasped, hoping, wishing and then...nil, zip, nought, nuthing, not a thing happened. Did you ever feel robbed? Absolutely Dave I mean come on Jesus ask and you shall receive? Bullshit let us all get duped by the original con artist A.K.A Jesus Christ. And many have fallowed in his foot steps Joseph Smith comes to mind. I mean come on people how stupid are you? Broken promise after broken promise.... just remember you can't just fall back on the trusty old saying of "Oh its just a metaphor" because pretty soon your whole damn book becomes a metaphor at that point it is just a book and that is all it is to the Ex-Christians... because we realized that when you get down to it, it is nothing more that stories (not even well written ones at that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Yah! Dang it! I'm still waiting for the bike I prayed for when I was 10 and my daddy was away in the army and we didn't have no money for Christmas. God just don't listen to poor boys. Oh I know, God just said no like I wanted him to do drugs or something. Actually God didn't say no. My mama said no. God, he didn't say anything and never has as far as I can tell. Praying is kind of like saying, "here kitty kitty" to an invisible cat. You'll never know if it actually came, though it probably didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totallyatpeace Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Also what is it with the "I'll pray for you" stuff? (see Han's recent post). Isn't that just a nice way of being patronising. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't believe I have ever used those words here, Dave. Correct me if I'm wrong. (Wait. There was that one time with Fwee.....back on the first board-- but I learned my lesson--- and it was a private conversation.) As a believer, prayer gives me comfort much as meditation can for others. I rarely pray, asking for something specific, but use it more as a time to process my thoughts and feelings. I prayed very hard when my good friend was dying from cancer. Layed hands, annointed with oil......she died anyway. I will never pretend to understand why God does what he does in this kind of situation--- but I still trust. Tap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 I prayed very hard when my good friend was dying from cancer. Layed hands, annointed with oil......she died anyway. I will never pretend to understand why God does what he does in this kind of situation--- but I still trust.Tap Sorry about your friend. I can tell you why God does what he does, if you want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 I'm still waiting for the cure for cancer that I prayed for when my mom was sick and I was still Christian. She never got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totallyatpeace Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Sorry about your friend. I can tell you why God does what he does, if you want to know. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, Chef. I know you can.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Matthew 18: 19"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them." What a freakin' liar!! Either that or it was God's WILL that little Dylan an and his sister were RAPED REPEATEDLY by that freakin' lunatic butthole. Yeah, let the children be tortured for weeks for the glory of god!! Halle*bleeeeepin*luah!! Probably MILLIONS of prayers in his precious, holy name went out for these children and nada. I'm glad that Shasta Groene is alive but if biblegod is real, screw him for not saving her nor her brother from that beast of a man with his omnipotency. If he cannot help a child with his powers then he is not worthy of my worship. Why wouldn't helping abused children be in God's will? There is no selfishness on the part of the person praying, just God, show your glory. *Edited out my cus words* <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This may be a little off the topic of this question, but this si one of the reasons I left. Why can I not hold God as accountable as I wuold an officer of the law? If a police officer witnesses a crime he is bound to try to stop it, thats hsi job, if he does not he can be held liable, responcible for not doing so. As I see it if you are omni-omni, (aka all omni). You know every crime being commited right now, and have the power to stop all of them, but you don't you are responcible, and should be held accountable. There is not a christian I know that if a child was being raped and a person, not even a police officer, just a person saw this and could stop it, but didn't they'd think that person was at best a serious jerk. But God??? Oh no, god is god he, she, it's perfect and I just do not understand. No, I don't understand, I hope I never do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveL Posted July 8, 2005 Author Share Posted July 8, 2005 I don't believe I have ever used those words here, Dave. Correct me if I'm wrong. (Wait. There was that one time with Fwee.....back on the first board-- but I learned my lesson--- and it was a private conversation.) As a believer, prayer gives me comfort much as meditation can for others. I rarely pray, asking for something specific, but use it more as a time to process my thoughts and feelings. I prayed very hard when my good friend was dying from cancer. Layed hands, annointed with oil......she died anyway. I will never pretend to understand why God does what he does in this kind of situation--- but I still trust. Tap <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tap, I'm sorry about your friend too, that's really sad. I understated the communication aspects in my opening post - fair call. It's not all about wish fulfilment, I know. I just wanted to sound my frustration, like many others here who hoped and prayed for positive change, with neutral or negative outcomes. I don't think I ever said "I'll pray for you" directly in my former life. I was only asked to pray for Mrs X with cancer or Mr Y's operation. I'm not sure if it made any difference. Wouldn't giving them your best wishes be of similar intent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveL Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 Yah! Dang it! I'm still waiting for the bike I prayed for when I was 10 and my daddy was away in the army and we didn't have no money for Christmas. God just don't listen to poor boys. I prayed for a Six-Million Dollar man doll. But my Dad didn't want his son to play with dolls. Thanks God (and Dad). Oh I know, God just said no like I wanted him to do drugs or something. Actually God didn't say no. My mama said no. God, he didn't say anything and never has as far as I can tell. Damn right Chef. I ended getting a toy microscope and Sea Monkeys. Thanks God (and Dad). Praying is kind of like saying, "here kitty kitty" to an invisible cat. You'll never know if it actually came, though it probably didn't Or an Invisible Pink Unicorn (or Invisible Blue Unicorn if your Viventrox). How do you call a Unicorn? Here Uni, Uni....oh never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerise Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Prayer, is it just positive affirmation? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totallyatpeace Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Tap, I'm sorry about your friend too, that's really sad. I understated the communication aspects in my opening post - fair call. It's not all about wish fulfilment, I know. I just wanted to sound my frustration, like many others here who hoped and prayed for positive change, with neutral or negative outcomes. I don't think I ever said "I'll pray for you" directly in my former life. I was only asked to pray for Mrs X with cancer or Mr Y's operation. I'm not sure if it made any difference. Wouldn't giving them your best wishes be of similar intent? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sure, Dave. "Sending good thoughts your way", etc. But a Christian will tell you that their prayers are interceeded by Christ, to the Father or even that the Holy Spirit prays for them when they don't know what to pray or how to pray. I still believe in the power of prayer but what you heard was my echoing your own former frustration on the matter. I'm human and this matter frutrates me sometimes because I want to understand and I don't. I had a long conversation with someone about this very subject yesterday and still walked away with now answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Some Xtians pray to Mary and saints. They right or wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totallyatpeace Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Some Xtians pray to Mary and saints. They right or wrong? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> According to the Bible.....they should not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Any good Catholics around want to dispute that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveL Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 I used to do Marian Devotion in the Catholic Church. It was even more depressing than normal prayer. It involved writing letters to Mary and placing them in a box. The people there were really desperate for change in their lives, mainly old people clinging to hope. Alot of them were sold on myths about Fatima and Medjugorje and believed Mary would intercede in their lives. That was probably the most frustrating aspect of prayer I've ever seen. Nothing changed for them, or me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 I get these stupid little "prayer pictures" in the mail sometimes. Has like a picture of Jesus on it and your supposed to place it on the floor and pray to jesus while kneeling in front of it or some such bullshit. They guarantee that your prayers will be answered...but they would like a donation to keep up god's work of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totallyatpeace Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 I get these stupid little "prayer pictures" in the mail sometimes. Has like a picture of Jesus on it and your supposed to place it on the floor and pray to jesus while kneeling in front of it or some such bullshit. They guarantee that your prayers will be answered...but they would like a donation to keep up god's work of course. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wow, Vixentrox. I honestly have never even heard of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 Wow, Vixentrox. I honestly have never even heard of that. http://www.breakthrough.net/PrayerCloth05.asp You can get your genuine prayer cloth right here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 Some Xtians pray to Mary and saints. They right or wrong? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's a great system the Catholic church has in place there. If your prayers aren't answered you get to try over and over again hoping to get the "right" saint. It may never work but it keeps you busy and gives you hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 I prayed very hard when my good friend was dying from cancer. Layed hands, annointed with oil......she died anyway. I will never pretend to understand why God does what he does in this kind of situation--- but I still trust. Tap <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry to hear about that TAP. Never an easy thing losing a friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 I remember a period of about 2 years, some 14 years ago, when we lost a family member every 6 months. Two were sudden..so no prayer. But the other two..one had cancer for a really long time. Much prayer..along with doctors at MD Anderson..and yet he died. After receiving "word" from his pastor that he was "healed". The other had multiple strokes..one after another until she didn't know who anyone was..or even what year it was. Much prayer for her too. She died..not knowing it was not 1940.. Yeah..prayer works.. A friend of mine had health issues..serious ones that really impacted her life. She is a woman of faith. Went to a Benny Hinn concert..(yes, concert..great entertainment, that) Claimed her healing..felt good for a while. Now she is seriously ill again. What? Temporary healing? OK...maybe she lost her faith long enough to lose the healing? Like Peter when he began to sink in the water?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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