GraphicsGuy Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 When I deconverted I only contacted one of my Xian friends from years gone by. He was by absolute best friend. We were practically brothers for years. I told him all that had gone on and his response was kind...though it took two weeks for him to respond. He's been on my friends list ever since, but we have also never written or spoken since. Guess he's still waiting for me to come back to fold first... I made the decision to not contact anyone else. At the time I didn't need the stress. Now I just don't want to have to explain and/or argue. Still, Murphy's Law strikes again. Last night came a friend request from a woman formerly a big part of my old church youth group. I wasn't sure if I should add her or not. So I asked myself...WWMMD? (What Would Madame M. Do?) Madame M. has been kind enough of late to offer me advice so I asked her and she gave me a number of useful suggestions. Her final one was the road I took. She basically said that if I didn't mind losing contact with this person I could add her as a friend, see how she reacted, and be prepared for the onslaught. In other words, use this woman as a testing ground to see how my other friends "might" react. So, the friend was added. The contact has been made. The guns are locked and loaded...should I be happy or disappointed if I don't have to use them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 The real Murphy's law. If she doesnt have a problem with it thats great. Unless she just feigns tolerance as step one of fundy conversion tactics Personally I get a sick thrill out of reconnecting with some of the "old group" and finding out how they view me now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 Personally I get a sick thrill out of reconnecting with some of the "old group" and finding out how they view me now. Somehow I don't doubt that I will either. I post some pretty nasty blog entries on my FB profile and I often wonder how my former best friend reacts. He never says a thing. I think he's resigned to ignoring me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 Yup...typical...shoulda known. She finally responded to my "hello" note and just HAD to put in her little observation. It's nice enough, but in the typical Xianese passive-aggressiveness... Looking at your profile you are now single and seem to be dealing with some pain and hurt issues. I know that we haven't seen each other for a long time but God isn't the cause of your pain, it comes from the place of blackness that you are holding onto. God loves you. That's nothing you haven't heard before. If you need to talk I'm here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 Gawd! I'm fucking angry enough to spit venom right now...I KNEW this was going to happen. Didn't even ask what happened or anything. Just automatically assumed. I'd let her have it, but that would just make her more certain that she's right. GODDAMN FUCKING XIANS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Christians do have pat answers for everything and scripts on how to communicate with believers, atheists, and backsliders. They open their book of 'Smarmy Sayings', and pick one. I get similar e-mails from folks I had not spoken with for ten years and then when I deconverted, they all acted like we were bosum buddies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Well GG I'm sorry the contact turned out that way. At least she got one thing right --"it's nothing you haven't heard before." Since she says "if you need to talk.." I guess you aren't obligated to respond in any way, are you? "God loves you." Don't ya just hate it? This person hasn't really communicated anything meaningful to you. Like HZ said, its scripted. It's the Christianese language, and it's really a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I understand your anger. At one time in my life, I'd have left a message like that. But now that I'm on the other side, I see how arrogant and judgmental it is. The equivalent would be if you'd have hit her up on her page, checked it out, and then posted, "Looking at your profile you are still practicing your mumbo-jumbo religion and walking in a cloud of blissful self-denial. I know that we haven't seen each other for a long time but, damn it, woman... I thought you'd have come to your senses by now. Maybe that's something you haven't heard before! If you need to talk about something that's worth discussing, I'm here. You do know what I consider NOT worth discussing, however. See ya 'round." What a pompous, contemptuous, swaggering hag. I understand your anger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 Well, I sharpened my keyboard and this is how I replied...though it will likely go flying right over her head... Dear Sister ______, Thank you so much for confirming every misgiving I had upon receiving your friend request. Nay! Not only that, every apprehension I perceived should I be so foolish as to contact the people from my foregone youth and allow them access to my life even in the smallest manner. You did not disappoint me in the slightest. Bravo for a deed well done! Nothing dissuaded you from your mission in the slightest. Not a, "how are you?" Nothing of a, "What happened?" Not even a cheery, "Pip pip, what train have you gone and boarded?" Ah, you see, well I know how the Christian mind works. Hardly a day goes by where some brave soul absolutely MUST tell me how much the Lord Almighty loves me. Upon seeing my profile how could a dear, sweet child of the Heavenly Father resist the urge to reach out with the love of Jesus and tell me just EXACTLY what is wrong with me? Sister _____, I say again that you did not disappoint in the slightest. You have fully confirmed and justified every misgiving I had whenever I considered contacting any of the old crew from the ill-fated vessel that is Gospel Chapel. I expected nothing less than the rhetorical tripe that spewed from your keyboard. I have well come to know that Christians have no interest in understanding my situation. They merely want to exist within their comfortable little world and damn the one to hell who looks around and says, "By jove, I believe we are lounging on a dung hill!" Answers as to why we were lounging upon a dung hill were not forthcoming in the slightest. They consisted of the same drivel over and over again. A scripture here, a sermon there, parroting the latest craze over yonder. Our dear Brother _____ at least had the courage to admit to the single honest answer in the Christian arsenal of, "I don't know." From the dung hill of Christianity I sallied forth n'ere to return to it again. I found truth and it did indeed set me free. Free to live and be the man that I had always wished to be, not the one that everybody else expected me to be. I am afraid that I shall require your companionship not even remotely in the slightest. I do indeed thank you for participating in my little test though. Should you happen across any members of the old crew please inform them that the Mark they knew is, indeed, quite dead. I am certain they will be tempted to offer many prayers at the sad news of my departing. Please advise them that this will not be necessary at all and is just a waste of their time. When no one is at the other end of the telegraph you are very likely to never receive an answer. Cheerio, Brother Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Very nice. It's amazing the empowering effect talking like an old novel gives you. Really communicates the outrage better than any number of equivalent expletives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 I keep wondering if Pat Condell would read it to her for me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Why don't you tell her how you really feel? Well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 Why don't you tell her how you really feel? Hmmm...not quite enough, huh? Shoulda gone with the gangsta' version perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 OMG I think I love you, that was awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 So I asked myself...WWMMD? (What Would Madame M. Do?) That almost looks like the anacronym for Weapons of Mass Destruction. LOL! W2M2D? Hows that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Damned fine response, btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hineni Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I feel a need to bow in thy presence. Great response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathGeek Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I like it too, a vocal D'artagnan with a rapier you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I'm a righteous indignation addict, and that was a damm fine hit! Any response? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 Haha...thanks for all the great comments! Yeah, she did slip in a response after I had dropped her off my friends list. I blocked her and didn't respond. She kind of apologized, but wasn't really sure what she did wrong overall. Oh, Mark, have you really become so hard? I assure you my concern was 100% heart felt. If you really feel that way I am sorry. I don't know anything about what has happened to you. I was only responding to having read your poem that was obviously showing inner turmoil and pain. I was basing my question and concern on a friendship that I felt we had many years ago. I am sorry if you feel I was condemning you or condescending in any way that was not my intent. The whole experience is kind of bittersweet. This was the first official "coming out" to a former friend about my deconversion that ended up with a cutting off of contact... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Haha...thanks for all the great comments! Yeah, she did slip in a response after I had dropped her off my friends list. I blocked her and didn't respond. She kind of apologized, but wasn't really sure what she did wrong overall. Oh, Mark, have you really become so hard? I assure you my concern was 100% heart felt. If you really feel that way I am sorry. I don't know anything about what has happened to you. I was only responding to having read your poem that was obviously showing inner turmoil and pain. I was basing my question and concern on a friendship that I felt we had many years ago. I am sorry if you feel I was condemning you or condescending in any way that was not my intent. The whole experience is kind of bittersweet. This was the first official "coming out" to a former friend about my deconversion that ended up with a cutting off of contact... Just my opinion, but she does seem nice though I have no idea how sincere she is. Maybe it wouldnt hurt to maintain some level of contact. Yeah its annoying that she tries to fit you into the christian framework, but thats to be expected. But you know her better, is she the kind of person that would be able to understand you? Is she worth the effort to put up with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 Is she worth the effort to put up with? No, it's not worth it. I really want nothing to do with the old crowd, that's why I didn't contact any of them in the first place. Fact is that I predicted the situation 100% accurately, even down to what she had read that caused her first response. Yeah, I felt kind of bad afterwards because she probably was really shocked and confused about everything...in hindsight I probably should have sent her a warning note before accepting the friend request. eg. "This profile contains explicit content and is not Xian friendly. Viewer discretion is advised. Also please do not send the owner platitudes nor attempt to cajole him back to the fold. Any such attempts will result in a verbal assault, public humiliation, and permanent banning." I know her mindset since she inherited it from her parents. My own parents had many run-ins with them. I talked to my parents about it last night and my father told me part of a conversation he had with this woman's mother years ago (my dad was pastoring the church at the time): Dad: "_____, I can't live by your rules." "They're not my rules, they're the rules clearly stated in the Bible." Dad: "Well I still can't live by them." Black and white, hardcore fundy thinking. I don't want to have to deal with it from former friends. Strangers on the web and on YouTube is one thing, but it tears pieces off of you when it comes from people you once loved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Good call then. I guess we can't be understood by everyone no matter how much we want to be. :sigh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Black and white, hardcore fundy thinking. I don't want to have to deal with it from former friends. Strangers on the web and on YouTube is one thing, but it tears pieces off of you when it comes from people you once loved. And this is the sad fact about the whole thing. If there was a shred of desire to still want to maintain contact with her, it would always be on her terms. What she'd be willing to accept about you... what she'd be willing to discuss in regards to religion or any other subject for that matter... and in what context you have or had in her mind as far as days gone by. The truth is that, unless you're the same person she once considered a friend, you're going to have to resubmit your application for friendship. It's a whole new ball game. Sitting under a shade tree at youth camp singing "Kum By Yah" back in the day is a good memory for her, while it is probably an embarassing and shitty memory for you. There's no longer common ground. You're now oil and water and even though you may have the capacity to tolerate her, you obviously don't want to - and that's your right. That's not a Christian's right! You understand this, too. She is commanded, in accordance with her faith, to love you and accept you as God does and to extend to you every measure of forgiveness and mercy and blah, blah, blah. (Romans 12:17-21 / 1 Corinthians 13:4-8) Ah, but you are now an outcast by your own hand! (Loved the dung heap illustration, by the way.) She is commanded, in accordance with her faith, to have nothing to do with you because, in doing so, she will be associating with one who threatens her own walk. The scriptures say that, in regards to you, her hand shall be first upon you to put you to death! (Deuteronomy 13:6-10) In essence, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't and she can use the scriptures and what she's been taught over the years in any way she pleases in order to (a.) be your friend or (b.) to shun you. Being your friend - at a similar level to what she once was to you and you to her - will require way too much effort on her part. So, she can say all she wants about not meaning to come across as condemning or condescending, but the fact is that she was and is still being as such. Yes. It hurts when it comes from people you once loved. But it's the very nature of Christianity that opens the door to being someone's friend and, in turn, to slam it in their face when they don't accept "THE TRUTH". I hate it for you, but it's part of the game. Hang in there and keep being, as you said, the man you want to be rather than the man you are/were expected to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 Kenny, you brought up some really excellent points that go straight to the heart of the issue. Thanks for all your comments. I could have pussyfooted around, maybe only allowed her to see certain parts of my profile, been careful about my language in posts and in status updates... ...and what would that have meant? It wouldn't be true to myself. All it would mean is that I was worrying about her feelings. I should have prepared her for the worst really, but it was time to make certain if my hesitation was justified or not. Unfortunately she was a bit of a scapegoat and I will be better prepared next time. Former friends will get conditions from now on. They are on my turf and will get treated like everyone else. Most of them probably need reality bashings, but maybe there will be a few who realize that "shit happens". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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