Guest AscendoTuumDeus Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Some Christians claim that science and Atheism are religions... I do not see how that is possible since atheism is defined as *lack* of a religion or lack of a belief in any deity/deities. It came from(of course) 'a' which means without, and 'theos' which means religion. How can being without religion be a religion? It would make absolutely no since; and if it is, how do you not have a religion? Is it absolutely impossible to escape from a religion? Anyone's thoughts on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai Tailor Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Pleading atheism-as-religion is simply a ploy by the theist to beg epistemological equivalency. There is an underlying false premise that because a religion generally tries to answer a stock set of questions, anything that opposes or contravenes a religion must also provide answers for said questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 I find the reverse equally ridiculous. Why does believing in a god automatically equate to believing in a religion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joseph Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Some Christians claim that science and Atheism are religions... I do not see how that is possible since atheism is defined as *lack* of a religion or lack of a belief in any deity/deities. It came from(of course) 'a' which means without, and 'theos' which means religion. How can being without religion be a religion? It would make absolutely no since; and if it is, how do you not have a religion? Is it absolutely impossible to escape from a religion? Anyone's thoughts on this? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is nothing more than breaking the law of identity. They are trying to define Atheism under their ideas and from within a worldview of you must pick a religion there is no such thing as "without religion." It would be the same thing as trying to have someone within the Nazi world view trying to see that basic human liberties and rights exist, there is nothing to draw upon which denotes such a world view or definition within their conceptualization therefore it cannot be discussed. It is the same problem of discussing relative morality with an absolutist (moral absolutist). They can not come to grasp that language itself it built upon relative conceptualization and by such they can not grasp relativity without coming out from under their world view (which would destroy it outright). It would be the same as trying to make a blind man know what "green" is without having him gain his sight. It can't be done. Don't play this game with them, end it very quickly. Make the theist see that the ideas they hold about other gods is the same way you feel about their god. This is the only means you can identify your unbelief under their world view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai Tailor Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 I find the reverse equally ridiculous. Why does believing in a god automatically equate to believing in a religion? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I do not suppose it does. I would be hard pressed to call classical deism a religion, for the question it purports to answer is hardly besieged by alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Myself, I'm a firm believer in A-santa-clausism. It's all written in the non-holy no-book of Babble! Actually I think that Christians are non believers in atheism only, they really don't believe in God. So basically they don't believe anything, they lack belief, but don't know it. They know atheism is true in their hearts, but because of their evil ways and having sex with goats and CD-roms, they can't see the truth, but resort to anti-atheism, and falsely call it Religion. (Jamaican Rum 1:20-24) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveL Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 I believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn, and it's a religion isn't it. Guys...guys..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Anyone's thoughts on this? Last time I checked out www.dictionary.com, there was exactly one definition of the term "religion" (the last one listed) that might possibly be applied to at least science (didn't think about atheism in that context so far)... the definition "religion: Something pursued with great zeal". Of course, by that definition I follow the "religion" of reading Perry Rhodan stories, among many other things. Furthermore, considering that particular part of fundie bullshitology "Whoever is not a christian follows sataaaaaaaan!", "of course" scientists and atheists are religious - believing in the christian death cult's best imaginary friend. I need to stop thinking about that - my brain wants to explode, and somewhere deep inside some few brain-cells-gone-bananas want to cry "Praise Jebus!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 I need to stop thinking about that - my brain wants to explode, and somewhere deep inside some few brain-cells-gone-bananas want to cry "Praise Jebus!" You have to be careful not to destroy your atheists brain cells, the more you lose the more fundie you become! Scaaaary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 You have to be careful not to destroy your atheists brain cells... Does that mean that it's already too late? After all, I'm no atheist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Does that mean that it's already too late? After all, I'm no atheist... Ooops! Sorry. May bad... going back to bed and hide under the blanket... I probably should have said non-Christian... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Ooops! Sorry. May bad... going back to bed and hide under the blanket... I probably should have said non-Christian... That's okay, shit happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islington Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 How can science be not? It is a question of: can it be like this? and the answer: yes (or no) because... If I than add: because the bible tells it so! or: I have found a mathematical way that tells me this. or: I have seen it, again and again! there is no difference except the reason you set behind. And how can a Religion not be a science? Well, if it declares not to be. My Religion tells me to understand as much as possible of all to judge right. That means Science as well as things not explainable by it. And to act on that base. So If I go wrong, I am responsible for it. And Atheism? Well, where no Gods are, You have to take responsibility for all your actions. And you have to find the reasons for them in yourself. So you have to take care of your own. But hey, if you don't want to be responsible for anything you can't even be a x-tian. If you don't do the things you have to, its all your fault. Live with what is true to your heart, what ever it is! Islington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 If you don't have a "higher" supernatural God that you believe in, you usually start to believe in yourself instead, which is just making a new god. Eventhough this god is not supernatural or omnipotent etc. (edit) Actually, even when you believe in supernatural god of some kind, you trust yourself to make the right judgment to that there is a god to believe in. So you put yourself high enough to be trusted to that opinion. So basically everyones god is ourself, even for Christians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islington Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Actually, even when you believe in supernatural god of some kind, you trust yourself to make the right judgment to that there is a god to believe in. So you put yourself high enough to be trusted to that opinion. So basically everyones god is ourself, even for Christians? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not exactly. Someone who try to please someone, does things hoping to be right. Someone who does something because he has thougth about it and found it the best he can do, does it because HE wants to do it and if there will be things he could not forsee, he knows he still have to learn. We only change our live and that of those around us. We are ourself the highest instant for that in live. Some x-tians do not judge there actions, there God will do that for them after death. They put there responsibility aside and do not life (at last not there lives). Islington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Not exactly.Someone who try to please someone, does things hoping to be right. True. Meaning they don't trust themselves neither someone else, but then can't and won't trust God either. But if you trust God, you have to establish the trust from somewhere, from yourself or from someone else. If you do it from someone else, that means that you trust that person, and you trust your own instincts to trust the other person. Someone who does something because he has thougth about it and found it the best he can do, does it because HE wants to do it and if there will be things he could not forsee, he knows he still have to learn. If he thought about it he trusts the conclusion of his thoughts, and inderectly he trusted the reasoning to get to the conclusion, and that reasoning he did himself, so he inderectly trusted himself. We only change our live and that of those around us. We are ourself the highest instant for that in live. Agree. Some x-tians do not judge there actions, there God will do that for them after death. They put there responsibility aside and do not life (at last not there lives). They trust God, which means they trust themself to have made the right decision to trust God. Ergo, the Ego is the highest god. Islington Good to have you here Islington. Keep the arguments coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islington Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 True. Meaning they don't trust themselves neither someone else, but then can't and won't trust God either. But if you trust God, you have to establish the trust from somewhere, from yourself or from someone else. If you do it from someone else, that means that you trust that person, and you trust your own instincts to trust the other person. Yeah, but if you only trust your instincts to trust an other person you do not have to ask yourself: How do I feel/think about it. So you only trust yourself indirectly. QUOTESomeone who does something because he has thougth about it and found it the best he can do, does it because HE wants to do it and if there will be things he could not forsee, he knows he still have to learn. If he thought about it he trusts the conclusion of his thoughts, and inderectly he trusted the reasoning to get to the conclusion, and that reasoning he did himself, so he inderectly trusted himself. No, he directly trusts himself, for he knows that the reasoning might lead him the wrong way. But he takes the risk. They trust God, which means they trust themself to have made the right decision to trust God. Ergo, the Ego is the highest god. Well, no. Not for them. For they life by words some others tell them. They trust themself to have made the right decision but all they do is to pray if they feel that somthing is wrong. They want to get the answer from a higher instant and not from there ego. Good to have you here Islington. Keep the arguments coming! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'll do my very best. Islington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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