Manditag in AK Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Hi, Recently I've been trying to figure that out.....I am officially un-christian now, *grins* the class my mom wanted me to take is over and all it did was clarify why I DISagree, and I am far enough away from the bible to be aware that theoretically some other religion could be true while it's not, but I don't see any reason for that to be the case. Rationally I'm aware that I prefer life with God in it, even a deist god who is no longer 'on the radar', but have been living atheistically for the past couple months. But I have had self-esteem issues in the past, (I didn't realize where so many of them came from until I was requested and agreed to going to church on easter! That's the underlying message of everything!) So, if there is no active, theistic god to grant us worth, and the fact that everyone's special just cause we happen to exist is a cold comfort when you're feeling bad, and good works fail because no one is perfect, where do you think that leaves us? I would love to hear you guys' answers to this question, even if you agree with the ones above that don't make sense to me-I need to be enlightened! Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Identification. You are someone just like me. I value myself, and can then put a certain value in you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted March 26, 2008 Super Moderator Share Posted March 26, 2008 God didn't grant us worth in the first place, according to the story. He set us up to be unworthy and in need of his divine intervention. Low self esteem is a gift from god. In reality, however, you are a human being, a creative spark unique in the universe. So take that, god! - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eejay Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I don't undersatnd how a person can feel more worth while being a x-tian when all the bible does is bash humanity, and makes us feel like we're all disgusting pieces of shit, just for living. Remember we were born into sin even before we knew or understood what it was. Sure don't make any sense to me. My esteem and my self worth has improved a mulititude since I abandoned x-tianity. You have a life that's worth living to the fullest, without the guilt and fear of hellfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 So, if there is no active, theistic god to grant us worth, and the fact that everyone's special just cause we happen to exist is a cold comfort when you're feeling bad, and good works fail because no one is perfect, where do you think that leaves us? I'm not sure what worth a theist god actually imparted on us. If we are talking Xianity, ole Jehovah didn't really create us with much worth. No real free will, trapped in his little cycle of life and damnation/eternal worship, not to mention his obvious disregard for human life. I'm tired right now so I may be a bit rambly, but as I see it Babble God made a bunch of slaves to kick around with just enough sense to know they are slaves, for Xianity there is little worth in life, and even less for the non-believers. So without all that cosmic purpose tripe what are you? A human, a unique thinking individual. There is no predetermined grand purpose for your life, save that which you make for yourself. You are your own person, thinking and living in this little bit of universe. You can affect your environment, make someone smile, enjoy a beautiful day all kinds of things that make this existence worthwhile, whatever the reasons for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosier Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I actually find more meaning now that I know I'm the result of millions of years of upgrades resulting in me. With beleif in god you can always say "oh he can just make more of us". But now, without him, I realize how alone and special we really are. I'd say we are more rare in the universe than a diamond is on earth. Think about it, if one thing had evolved differntly in our ancestral line, humanity as we know it would not exist. Thats why I now see we really have to take care of this planet. Gods not going to make us "a new heaven and earth" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 So, if there is no active, theistic god to grant us worth, and the fact that everyone's special just cause we happen to exist is a cold comfort when you're feeling bad, and good works fail because no one is perfect, where do you think that leaves us? I admit I'm having a difficult time analyzing the above statement. I think xtianity creates overwhelming expectations that just do not conform to the reality. Life exists - you are a conscious being - that's incredible - why should there be more? Emotionally you may very well want more (mostly due to xtian conditioning), and for that you can use your imagination, but there are times when we just need to face facts. It might help to get a cosmic perspective -- isn't it amazing that you are here at all in view of the fact that life is only known to exist on this one planet (though I'm sure that will change) and seems to be rather rare? That's "worth" whatever that means. By the way, there is really no such thing as "perfection". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manditag in AK Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 I guess it would help to explain that I have believed in more versions of God than the christian one, as far as the worth statements go. And as twisted as it may be, the message of 'you are inherently bad' is always followed by, but GOD wants you anyway. If someone that 'all-powerful', still wants even you, there's the worth. Maybe this is just more of the Christianity stuff flushing out of me, I haven't felt this bad in a long time and I doubt its a coincidence that it happened right after going to church. To be honest I have felt better about myself consistently since deconverting than I have since I was probably 9 years old (16 years ago), as horrible as I realize that sounds. You might all be right about why there has to be more, I guess I've been using christian standards to judge myself unworthy, even though I'm not technically Christian anymore. I know rationally there's no such thing as perfection, but I guess I just forgot that. Thank you for all your responses, I think it helped me to realize that again. That's a lot of why I love this site. The following is mostly musing aloud, and stuff I think I need to say for myself, so don't feel you have to respond to the following, but I realize now part of the reason this came up again is because I moved this last weekend, I've been going 16 hours a day, constantly working while awake, for the last two weeks and when I moved, in the end it was only my Christian family members who actually came and stayed the whole time. The rest either bailed out at the last minute or left partway through. Additionally I didn't go to my voice class this weekend because as a thank you I agreed to attend that easter service, so I lost my 'me' time for the week too. Geez no wonder I've been feeling so bad. Thank you again for responding, I think I've regained my perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 We are all a miracle in the universe. We are unique, no other life has been discovered yet. We do not need special magic to make us believe we are unique, which is why many people get angry when someone shows up blabbing about how everyone is going to hell unless we believe their line of BS. Humanity never fell from grace. We have nothing to repent. The story of the talking snake is as contrived a fable as the miracles of Jesus. Christianity is a fading super power that wants to return to its former glory as the religion of all of earth with everyone under its thumb. The only way it can achieve its ends is through Democracy allowing elections to be influenced by religious propaganda dictated to it by the government. What the darling of the church in Washington, DC, pukes out, the church will preach tomorrow as doctrine. Christianity does nothing to motivate the world to overcome its obstacles, it promotes ignorance and intolerance. The true self-worth of each person can only be found by that person through personal challenges and overcoming one's own obstacles. True worth is not found in religion teaching others how to berate their fellow man because they may not choose to live in ignorance. A person can increase their own sense of identity and self-worth by challenging religious speakers who openly condemn or call for violence against persons of opposing lifestyles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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