The Sage Nabooru Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Alright, so I gave up. No archaeology or cultural anthropology degree for me. It breaks my heart, but okay. How about going into another passion, expressed another way: Asian Studies with a minor in journalism? And of course I don't mean one of those "Oh, I just found it interesting" online Associates degrees, I mean a Masters. Nope. Not good enough. "Oh my God, Sage, I can't believe how stupid you keep getting. Those stupid degrees like that, only rich kids who know they never have to make any money get into that shit. Can't you stop clogging your head up with these stupid, ridiculous concepts you get, you just think just because you like something [more like LIVE FOR IT] you can just do it." If it were up to him, and I do say this literally as he has stated it in real life, my career would be as follows: Either, 1. Keep up working in "retail", which means minimum-wage. Hey, what does he care? I'm obivously somewhat good for it, after five years of shit pointlessness, right? 2. Become an architect/autoCAD techie/some other career that he will strongarm me into working for his own business. Why the fuck must he always make me cry about my future? Why does he have to cut me down and shoot me right through and tell me I'll never get a job, I'll never make any precious money? Of course that's all that matters to him, he's been searching for money his whole maggoty life, keeps making more but never fucking enough. Why can't he just shut the fuck up? Why can't I ever be good enough for him? I hate my life. I really do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Alright, so I gave up. No archaeology or cultural anthropology degree for me. It breaks my heart, but okay. Oh no. What happened? mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Ah Sage, that sucks. I don't have anything really to say. I'll never have the approval of my Dad and it goes deeper than just a choice of career. You see, he's really my step-dad. He's been around since I was 5 years old. He lies to me and himself too I think and says that it doesn't matter that I'm not his kid. But the difference in how he treats me and my sister, who is his kid, is noticable. At some point Sage you may just have to kick having his approval to the side. I recommend that you follow your passion, and damn everything else. I heard a guy say this: "the goal of every human life is to die with as little regret as possible." And I don't know how to mount an argument against it. Good luck Sage. And hang in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlr72 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 While my dad may not have been so caustic when I was in school, he frequently liked to inform me that I should just forget about all these fancy ideas about going to school, getting educated, and attempting to have a fruitful life outside of a steel mill or coal mine. Now, don't get me wrong--this country was made on the backs of the coal and steel industries, especially here in the Pittsburgh area. But, I knew I didn't want to do those things for a living. So, now I make maps. I'm having trouble deciding which is worse. I'm guessing that your father hates his job. If he wasn't, he wouldn't try to direct your career. At the very least, I think perhaps his brutal attempts to push you into a certain career path is a misguided way to ensure that you're happy and have a fruitful life. My dad still tries to direct my career almost on a daily basis. It will never stop. If you're happy in your job, the money will follow. Besides, I'm starting to wish I had studied archeology when I was in school. At the very least, study the cultural/social aspect of geography as opposed to just making maps. Archeology is freaking cool. Way cooler than doing CAD. If your dad doesn't like it, tough shit. It's not his life. If you don't mind me asking, what does your dad do, and how old are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knitterman Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Alright, so I gave up. No archaeology or cultural anthropology degree for me. It breaks my heart, but okay. How about going into another passion, expressed another way: Asian Studies with a minor in journalism? And of course I don't mean one of those "Oh, I just found it interesting" online Associates degrees, I mean a Masters. Your father cannot live your life for you. I don't recall the details of your situation, but there will come a time when you can get your own student loans and financial support to pursue the field you feel passionate about. I wasn't at all prepared for college when I left high school and went into the Air Force instead, but I wish I'd been smarter about using the GI Bill to go get a fuller education after I'd matured a little more. The only person who actually needs to approve your choices is you, because only you will have to live with those choices. The resentment for submitting to your father's wishes now will only grow into a greater resentment later. Screw that. Do what YOU want. You weren't born to fulfill his dreams or make him happy. And, I'd be willing to bet, when you are happy and fulfilled in your life, he will be proud of you. And even if he isn't, you will be. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eejay Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 I couldn't reiterate more what knitterman just said. You have to do what YOU want in your life and follow YOUR dreams. Though we'd like to have our parent's approval, on most of the things we do, some of us. for whatever reason find it near impossible to please them no matter what. Being true to yourself in all aspects of your life whether it's religious beliefs or lack thereof, career choices or even sexual orientation; it is one of the most important things you have to consider. You have to live with yourself and your choices usually long after you've left your parent's nest. When they're gone you still have to live with yourself. Funny thing is, sometimes even when you do what they want you to do you still don't measure up. I've been there and I don't think there really is a solution. Follow your own heart, you won't regret it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knitterman Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 I would also add, re: the thread title: Can My Father Ever Not Make Me Feel Like Shit? "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." -- Eleanor Roosevelt, 'This Is My Story,' 1937 "Do what you feel in your heart to be right - for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't." -- Eleanor Roosevelt Eleanor Roosevelt was a wise woman. "Parents will ALWAYS have their own opinions, but opinions are not genetic; it is our privilege to not take those opinions as our own." -- Ray Whiting (that's me, Knitterman) "What you think of me is none of my business" -- Terry Cole-Whitaker. "Everyone is necessarily the hero of his own life story." -- John Barth "Whenever it is in any way possible, every boy and girl should choose as his life work some occupation which he should like to do anyhow, even if he did not need the money." -- William Lyon Phelps So go get your degree archeology, may the devils be damned! Who knows what treasures you will unearth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 *Hugs* Parents can be asshats sometimes. And it sucks. Hang in there. Have you tried getting a loan to get your own degree? It is your life, you should be able to do what you want to do. Life is too short to be miserable 8 hours a day 5 days a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonolithTMA Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Why can't I ever be good enough for him? Because he's an asshole and isn't worthy of having a wonderful child like you. Any parent that doesn't love and support their child unconditionally possibly never received that same love from their parents, but that's still no excuse. My paternal Grandmother was horribly critical of my father and yet my Dad grew up to be one of the greatest, kindest men I know. I've known nothing but unconditional love from both him and my Mom. Studying archeology or anthropology or both would be sooooo cool! Do it! Do it! Do it! Do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted March 30, 2008 Super Moderator Share Posted March 30, 2008 Some fathers are born to make us feel like shit. You are not alone. I never could please mine, and when he remarried he constantly bragged about his stepson who was so successful and a great man of god. He was like the son my dad never had. Fuck him. I went my own way, have had a successful and happy life, married to the same woman for 38 years, and I never pleased him or his god. Dad even reached out from the grave to irritate me. At his memorial service (at his very fundy church) the preacher announced from the pulpit that dad's last wish was that his children (pointing to us) would come to know the lord. His widow asked later if I was going to give a "gift" to the pastor for conducting the service. I responded rather rudely to that! You just have to let all that parental pressure go and make your own way. Success (happiness) is the best revenge. Best to you, - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Sage, all my life my life I've been good at art and writing. My father always said "You could be a doctor or a lawyer. You'll never make any money with being an artist and stop slacking off." Even after I set up my own thriving little freelance art and writing business and have been published in other countries with my work, if I try to talk to him about it he's like "Um...that's...great, honey. How much do you make? That's it?! Humph, when are you going to actually DO something with you're life?" This dissapointed me until ultimately, I realized my father was not actually talking to me about my future or my choices in life...he was talking to himself. HE hasn't been published around the world, HE isn't a doctor or a lawyer or whatever. I wasted a lot of years listening to someone who wasn't even talking to me, but rather angry with himself for not accomplishing more in his OWN life. If you want to an archeology or cultural anthropology degree, DO IT. What does he know about it? If that's what makes you happy, than that's your choice to make....and you will regret it far more than his words if you do not act upon your dreams. Take it from someone who very nearly did that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro-bear Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 1. Keep up working in "retail", which means minimum-wage. Hey, what does he care? I'm obivously somewhat good for it, after five years of shit pointlessness, right? Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you even consider this course of action. I worked in retail for twenty years. It never gets any better; it only gets worse. Your self-esteem goes to the shitter, your friends think you're a loser, and your fantasy life has to fill in the enormous void your pathetic real life has left yawning like a monster deciding when or if to simply eat you and put you out of your misery. Find something you are passionate about and pursue it relentlessly. Unless money and material things mean a great deal to you, it doesn't matter if it pays well as long as it satisfies your heart and mind. All the pain and effort will be worth it. "Not to decide is to decide." -Harvey Cox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 some people just have to project their self loathing on to the everyone else. They can't help it. They are cankerous, ranqourous, bitter twisted people, and I stopped giving such people access to my psyche a long time ago... which is easier said than done, but if I can manage it, so can you, since you're younger than I am, and at least as smart as I am (which isn't saying much, I know, but what the hell) My dad, like Monolith's, regarded his upbringing as a terrible warning about the way it shouldn't be, rather than an example to be carried forward. He only placed two limits on me 1) I'd never work on the works in a job I HAD to wear a boiler suit 2) I never joined the Army Other than that, if I'd been a street sweeper and was happy, then he'd have been fine. I wish you luck, and remember that the only REAL limitations are the ones you think you have... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Alright, so I gave up. No archaeology or cultural anthropology degree for me. Sage, no need for me to repeat what everyone else already said. I agree with practically everything in this thread--go for your dreams and the rest will follow. Here's what I want to say. Cultural anthropology! I discovered it too late in the game to do more than take the intro course and a few others. Also, no degree in cultural anthropology was offered at my school. If you are at a school where it is offered, GO FOR IT! And archaeology--these two go together like peas in a pod. Sage, I think one of your father's (he's a fundy, right?) problems with this direction in your education is that he knows it will knock the buttresses right out from under his religion. I say SO WHAT!?!? If truth can stand on its own and they have it--as Christians love to profess--they have nothing to fear from anthropology or archaeology or any other science. And if the bible and religion is proven to be wrong--well, I want to know the truth. This life is too short to waste it on a lie or delusion. Dad, you live your life the way you want to. I will live mine the way I want to. If you're cool with that, so am I. If not, good-bye. Of course you will have to have some plan of survival in place (and be legally capable of carrying it out--as in not being a minor running away from home but I think I remember from earlier posts that you are in your twenties) before you say that so that you can act on the threat to leave in case you have to follow through on it. Unless he is the kind who is easily scared, bluffing could be your downfall and you could regret it long after he is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Sage, Aside from practical advice (Burnedout had an interesting suggestion), I have often remarked at the insight and wisdom of your posts for your age. I have a lot of confidence in your ability to make a career in any of those fields. Oh shit... I can't resist... I would wonder whether your father is applying pressure because he sees that the technique works on you and is effective rather than because it is what he does by nature. (If he has a business, he likely has the ability to manipulate people. Many of them manipulate those they can and only respect for those they can't manipulate.) If the case is that he just makes everyone feel like crap then you'll have to do what you want independantly. If it is taht he does it because it works on you then you'll have to show some resolve and backbone (not words but action) and that might pursuade him to give up. Not to be harsh... but if you've been at Wallmart, it appears that "action" is not what you're known for and so your dad doesn't see you as being able to make things happen on your own. The bottom line is... you may have allowed your parents to write the chapters of your life up until now but the next chapter is yours to write. Only you. Have a read of this... http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/for...17444/index.htm ...and then start thinking about what you are going to do to take control of your life and make it better. Mongo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Good advice Mongo, though I have to admit that something about the tone of that article just feels very Marie Antoinette to me. Why does the richest nation in the world produce such prodigious volumes of bellyaching--even, or especially, among those who are lucky enough to have jobs? One answer, not as paradoxical as it sounds, is that we are the richest nation in the world, damn it. I've met self pittiers that are annoying and if the article is directed purely at them, then I have no beef with it. At the same time, I do not think that everyone should just buckle down and praise the gods of capitalism and the ghost of Ronny Reagan that they live in supposedly the most prosperous nation in the world, so suck it up and take that 50+ hour week, pay cuts, vindictive office politics, and condescending management plebes. This: Be warned. Roving bands of management consultants are out there telling your boss what your friends and colleagues are too kind (or too cowardly) to say to your face: If you can't find a way to overcome your disgruntlement, or at least turn it to some constructive use, you're poisoning the whole organization worries me very much, TBH. Pursuit of happiness has eroded to something like pursuit of downsizing, conformity, and corporate patriotism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Good advice Mongo, though I have to admit that something about the tone of that article just feels very Marie Antoinette to me. Duly noted. I'm sure you know that wasn't my point but rather that when we have the ability to steer our lives... then do so rather then letting others reach over and direct our lives. Mongo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Sage, Aside from practical advice (Burnedout had an interesting suggestion), I have often remarked at the insight and wisdom of your posts for your age. Am I missing something? According to Sage's profile she is 39 and everyone keeps talking like she is so young. At 39 that is old enough to tell dad to lump it years ago. Nope... you're not missing anything. My mistake. Mongo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Good advice Mongo, though I have to admit that something about the tone of that article just feels very Marie Antoinette to me. Duly noted. I'm sure you know that wasn't my point but rather that when we have the ability to steer our lives... then do so rather then letting others reach over and direct our lives. Mongo Yes, of course. Hopefully my post didn't imply anything but. It was the tone of the writer of the article that came across that way to me, not your post. Sage isn't really 39 are you Sage? I'm pretty sure I remember you saying before you were in your early 20s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sage Nabooru Posted April 2, 2008 Author Share Posted April 2, 2008 It says I'm 39?! Must be a mistake. Let me change that. I'm actually 23. And no, I'm not making that up. My dad's not a fundy, he's an atheist, and partly the reason why I distrusted atheists for so long. You see, he's not one of those atheists that says, "I just see no reason to believe in God." He says, "There is no God. I said it. That makes it true. Because there is no God, all women need to rely on the men in their lives to control them. Plus, I can treat everyone like the shit they most absolutely are and not have to worry about being kind or compassionate, because that's just religious bullshit anyway, and we all know I'm the UberMensch so I have not only the right but the obligation to stick my foot in everyone's ass so they know who the boss is and accept it. And by the way, if you do believe in God, prepare to have me kick you down the stairs verbally while I treat you and everyone else who doesn't agree with me as not even animals with the same dismissive, rude, and self-centered tone." That doesn't mean he wouldn't use my mother's religious upbringing of me and my brother against us, though. He saw ample opportunity for abuse of "honor thy FATHER (and I guess thy mother)" and threw that in our faces all the time. Not that he gave a shit about the Ten Commandments. Just saw the window for manipulation and ran with it. I know this isn't the topic for it, but growing up I had two opposing figures: My submissive, quiet, deeply religious mother, shy and non-confronting to a fault (I remember once at the mall, three bully Heathers came up walking behind me, and starting calling me names and taunting me, I looked up to my mom to get some support and she was walking AWAY as fast as possible), and my overbearing, staunchly atheist father. Both told me they had the philosophy that could explain everything. Even when I looked at those philosophies outside of the people who presenting them to me, they just weren't what gelled with me, and didn't make sense to me personally. I guess in that sense I can understand why I'm just so bizarre and rebellious to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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