Missions and Money

[Guest Rabbi Dan]

I've always wondered about supporting Missionaries abroad or Mission trips in general.

 

I remember once my Former Pastor telling the congregation he and his wife were going to Guatemala on a mission trip and if anyone wanted to go it would cost $800 for the 3 day trip. Also, there's times when he pitched the congregation for Money for other trips and expenses.

 

They went by air and I presume first class, stayed in the finest hotels, took comfortable clothes and shoes, and of course Money to sustain the trip.

 

And one time his son and daughter went to China on a "Bible Smuggling" mission and they had trouble getting the Bibles into the country...they had to pay or "Bribe" authorities with $5000 of the church's money to get them through...when the Pastor told the congregation they all loudly applauded as it was a Miracle...shouts of Praise the Lord!!!..

 

I would have considered the Bibles going into the country free of a bribe as a Miracle not a $5000 payoff.

 

But what I find odd is, the Bible states that Jesus sent out his deciples in pairs and told them Not to Take Money,Clothes,Food, ect...and yet these people go in style with all the comforts. That's totally contrary to how the deciples were commanded...i.e. to depend on God and have no care for tomorrow.

To Live and walk by faith.

 

I told this to a "Sister in the Lord" and she responded by saying" well that was back 2000 years ago, things are different now"

 

I don't thinks so...Jesus could have easily ordered Judas to go out and buy twelve Arabian Stallions, the finest Robes and sandals, a Caravan of Camels to take food and water, and of course some Tents.

 

I told her..."What I think would be a Miracle would be for the Pastor to tell the congregation he's going on a Mission trip on Faith. And just step out of his house and start walking and all of sudden...someone Picks him up and takes him to the Airport, then someone out of Kindness buys him a first class roundtrip ticket to Guatemala, then upon arriving, someone offers a suite at the Hotel free of charge with meals. Now that would be an act of Faith."

 

She didn't respond.

 

Rabbi Dan

[dogmatically_challenged]

Rabbi Dan

I told her..."What I think would be a Miracle would be for the Pastor to tell the congregation he's going on a Mission trip on Faith. And just step out of his house and start walking and all of sudden...someone Picks him up and takes him to the Airport, then someone out of Kindness buys him a first class roundtrip ticket to Guatemala, then upon arriving, someone offers a suite at the Hotel free of charge with meals. Now that would be an act of Faith."

 

She didn't respond.

 

 

 

Money on materials to teach jesus costs money as well as food, clothing , medicine...

 

In many cases the kinds of medicine or vitamins needed is cheap and if no money at all was spent on bibles and such more people could get needed medicine. But jesus comes before people always. Instead of miracling the good news himself jesus would rather his lackeys spend money on bibles instead of more medicine and food.

[nirrti]

Rabbi Dan, I suspect you were very popular at your church.   YOu were probably the topic of some "prayer concerns".

 

I used to work for a ministry, I remember how I had to set up tickets and reservations for comfy vacations... er, conferences.  I asked some christians once how come we need so many huge, expensive church buildings and why that money wouldn't be better spent feeding the poor.  Someone responded that unfortunatley, it takes money to make money, and more money for missions is raised if you provide people with a big comfy building because then more people show up.  Church is a business venture and the pastor is the enterpreneur of his own business.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, and I guess besides "comfy seats", it takes a Starbucks in the church's lobby, an olympic size swimming pool, a bowling alley, smoothy stand, book store, giant jumbotron, skating rink......wait, what am I describing, a church or a mega mall?

[Amethyst]

Yeah, and I guess besides "comfy seats", it takes a Starbucks in the church's lobby, an olympic size swimming pool, a bowling alley, smoothy stand, book store, giant jumbotron, skating rink......wait, what am I describing, a church or a mega mall? 

 

IIRC, the Mall of America does have at least one church.

[nirrti]

IIRC, the Mall of America does have at least one church.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So after you've purchased that dress at Sears and had your latte from Starbucks, you can stop by "J.C.'s Prayers" and get your "god-on".

[nirrti]

All they need is an archade for the kids.  You could have bible themed video games.  More gorey than mortal combat. 

 

Let's see, we could have one where you go into combat and have to wipe out a whole city, but kidnap the virgins.  We could have the Sodom and Gomorrah one, get through the city without getting gang raped, escape before the city goes up in flames and avoid turning into a salt pillar.  For the little kids, Noah's ark, get all the cute little animals on the ship before the flood comes.  And for the sadists, Mortal Crucifiction.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Then they can play one called "Halo 3, Angel of Death" where they become angels armed with swords and have to go through the maze of huts to find Egyptian first-born males to kill. The more they slay, the more points they earn. But if they slay a Jewish kid by mistake, they lose points.

[Sokudo Ningyou]

I live in an area with late 19th century, early 20th church buildings, all of them stone and roughly the same size. They're pretty standard for the years; only one or two have actually been added on to considerably to fit the growing township.

 

Then my mom dragged me to Easter service in Texas when I was 17. Holy shit. The Catholic church they had for the Houston-Galveston diocese could have fit my entire high school class with some standing room, a 200 or so group of people. Ceilings higher than a theatre. The latest in stereo technology so the late comers in the way back could hear everything. It was almost hedonistic. Nice nap thanks to some fairly comfortable folding chairs though.

 

It just kills me. Milwaukee actually has billboard advertisements for churches. And on buses. Wouldn't the faithful show up anyway? What the hell do they need a sign for? The money spent could feed the growing number of homeless downtown for gods' sakes. I feel like walking into one some day and announcing, "You know what? Jesus was a hippie. If he were alive now, he'd be driving a shitty 60's bug, with a peace sign right on the hood, living off charity and preaching the word. Not driving a brand-new Lexus with a perfect coat of wax, living off the fat of his adherents, and taking one day a week to tell people if they don't believe, they'll go to Hell."

[Christopher Carrion]

What I truly despise about the whole missionary phenomena is that it is symptomatic of the universal monotheistic ambition to crush all cultural variety in the human race and to impose upon every member of the species the prescribed templates of perception and behaviour that adherents of said ideology define themselves by. There is no doubt that certain missionary or Christian aid groups do a fair amo0unt of palpably productive work in certain countries around the globe, but the fact that they are doing so in the name of their abstract religious ideology and its inimical threats of promises (i.e., those of damnation to Hell or ascension to Heaven) makes me question the oft advertised "humanity" and "compassion" of their intentions. IMO, it is entirely possible to feel compassion for others and to advance them aid without the cattle prod of religion up your arse.

[Guest Rabbi Dan]

"Rabbi Dan, I suspect you were very popular at your church. You were probably the topic of some prayer concerns".

 

Yes Madame M, I was very Popular in my Church. And I'm sure I was on their Prayer List...still am I guess.

 

You mentioned some Arcade games and such....how about Bible Bingo

[I Broke Free]

What I truly despise about the whole missionary phenomena is that it is symptomatic of the universal monotheistic ambition to crush all cultural variety in the human race and to impose upon every member of the species the prescribed templates of perception and behaviour

 

This reminds me of a scene in “Airplane” where the main female character was having a flashback memory sequence in which she was a missionary to a primitive African tribe. They were all sitting on the ground in a circle and she was demonstrating how “Tupperware could help stretch their food dollar.”

[Checkmate]

Yeah, and I guess besides "comfy seats", it takes a Starbucks in the church's lobby, an olympic size swimming pool, a bowling alley, smoothy stand, book store, giant jumbotron, skating rink......wait, what am I describing, a church or a mega mall?

 

Nope, you've just described the Mega Church. Those hideous things popping up all over the world. (The latest eye-sore is by Joel Osteen. Someone began a thread on that already.)

 

AND they have all the junk you guys describe!

[Outsider2]

I always like when missionary topics come up, since I am a "failed" missionary myself. Actually, being a missionary is not a bad job..

 

I met up with a married couple that were long-term missionaries in China and they were living off donations from their church which added up to $15,000 a year. That may not seem like a lot, but in China you can live like a king. They sent their son to the local international school, lived in a nice (for China) apartment, enrolled in Chinese class, and the only work they had to do was witness to the Chinese. That is not a lot of work since they were not fluent in the language. So, basically they went to school to study Chinese and talked to people.

 

Another guy who was a Southern Baptist missionary had a three story house and sent his four kids to the same international school. Mind you they weren't rich, but who would not want to live in an exotic location with a three story house and not have to hold down a full time job. Being a missionary is like being on vacation! Anyway, this guy had a "undercover" way of spreading the word.

 

He would get the visiting short-term missionaries to take tracts to clothing stores in town and stuff them in shirt pockets. He did not do this himself because he did not want to blow his "cover" of being in China to study the culture.

 

Even though it seems like a good scam, most missionaries are dirt poor. Trust me I know! Most have good intentions and it is not about the money. Usually it is like pulling teeth to get people to sponsor you and coming to Japan I had to get a job. So, most missions are not a scam to get money, but the delusion that people of different cultures are lost. Of course, if a missionary is open minded they might discover they are the ones lost, just as I did.