Super Moderator florduh Posted April 3, 2008 Super Moderator Share Posted April 3, 2008 I've noticed several ex-Christians still beating the Bible to death. Didn't we, in large part, leave the faith because the Bible is so contradictory, at odds with reality and history, and generally cryptic (to put it mildly)? Why continue to try to extract something of value from it? Why worry about what Jesus said, or what Paul added to it? Why try to wring some spiritual guidance out of it? Why try to make a verse fit with the Buddhist or some other thought system? The Bible (New Testament in particular) is for Christians. It's their book. If you are of a spiritual bent, there is more practical advice and understanding in the Eastern philosophies. Hell, Scientology probably works better in the real world. Did I miss some great hidden wisdom as I studied (in school, even) and read the commentaries? I concluded the book is probably the poorest spiritual guide available to us. Am I wrong? - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Personally I find little value in the Bible anymore. In fact I don't think I looked at it at all for 9 years or so-- then I got on this site and found myself looking verses up! I think the answer is that we are all at various stages of deconversion with different church/spiritual backgrounds and conditioning. I can see the similarities between some of the things Jesus said and some of the things Buddha said but its just not that significant to me because there are many more things Jesus (and Paul) said that I completely dismiss. That is just the way my mind works. Taken as a whole it doesn't work well for me. I would prefer something else-- such as Vasistha's Yoga, the Bahagavad Gita (in part), The Diamond Sutra, etc., which I find interesting and appeal to my imagination and aesthetic sensibility. So at one time I found Biblical study interesting but now I would rather explore other texts that I find more meaning in. I agree that the Bible is a poor spiritual guide even read metaphorically, but I know there are some here that would disagree with us, Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Why continue to try to extract something of value from it? Why worry about what Jesus said, or what Paul added to it? Why try to wring some spiritual guidance out of it? Why try to make a verse fit with the Buddhist or some other thought system? The Bible (New Testament in particular) is for Christians. It's their book. I didn't leave because of the bible itself but because the "promises" made in the bible (some might argue the "church" but it's semantics at that point) didn't hold up (mainly the stuff about not giving us more than we could handle and leaving the flock for the one). Anyhow, I personally believe that there is information that is of value in the bible but I don't think it is of the "spiritual" kind. I think the bible shows great insight into how a certain group of people in the past thought, their rules and so on. I think there's also more than meets the eye there too but, again, not a "spiritual" nature (beyond what the people back then thought was "spiritual"). It's also good to know in case you're around others that use the bible as an "authority" to thump you over the head. Being better at using these peoples own weapon of choice against them is fun. It's also therapeutic. I would say it's also therapeutic to also simply go through the bible and finally question all those things jesus and Paul said that you weren't allowed to question before. To see if they really do hold up. I personally found it to be helpful. The "morals" may be questionable as a whole and a number of them are "ripped off" from other places but they are worded nicely in the bible as opposed to other sources (such as the "Golden Rule" and the like). We're familiar with them in their biblical form but if tossing those out the window and learning a different version to somehow pay homage to that source seems better then by all means do that. I disagree that the "NT" is "their book" (especially if you believe them that their "god" is for all people...that means the book is for all too). Then that means that other philosophy's books are only for those who are in those groups as well. No Buddhist knowledge for you unless you're a Buddhist. No X unless you're an X and no Y unless you're a Y. That's kind of how xians have kept their book so "sacred" for so long. They've kept knowledge isolated and walls around their book. It's time the walls come down and the information flowed. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 I don't extract 'value' from it... I use it to bitchslap the retards who come here quoting it... if we didn't get God's latest favourite telling us how we'd all 'got it wrong' I'd never quote the accursed book again, other than using the parts that have entered the language, or while quoting Sherlock Holmes who quotes liberally from both the KJV and Shakespeare... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 I still have the need for assurance that my decision was right. One way for me is to look at the bible and find out, that this book is totally useless, man made, arrogant, cruel and in no way the word of god. So I do this from time to time and can handle my doubts (regarding my deconversion) better. When I left the faith I was very concerned about the bible. That changed, but I still need to prove to myself (with the help of others...thanks), that my decision was good and right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted April 4, 2008 Author Super Moderator Share Posted April 4, 2008 I disagree that the "NT" is "their book" (especially if you believe them that their "god" is for all people...that means the book is for all too). Then that means that other philosophy's books are only for those who are in those groups as well. No Buddhist knowledge for you unless you're a Buddhist. No X unless you're an X and no Y unless you're a Y. That's kind of how xians have kept their book so "sacred" for so long. They've kept knowledge isolated and walls around their book. It's time the walls come down and the information flowed. mwc It looks like "their book" to me. The NT is specifically about Jesus and how to understand and follow him, be born again, and the instruction to early Christian churches. Very specific and exclusive in my view. It doesn't follow that any other spiritual writings aren't more universal in their appeal. Besides, I don't think there are any "spiritual concepts" in the Bible that aren't covered better elsewhere. - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 It looks like "their book" to me. The NT is specifically about Jesus and how to understand and follow him, be born again, and the instruction to early Christian churches. Very specific and exclusive in my view. It doesn't follow that any other spiritual writings aren't more universal in their appeal. Then it seems I'm not understanding what it is you mean by "their book." Nothing is stopping anyone from reading it and doing with it as they please beyond the bleating of a few sheeple. Even then, that they have the "right" interpretation of their own book is questionable and even beside your point to me. Besides, I don't think there are any "spiritual concepts" in the Bible that aren't covered better elsewhere. I covered that (to quote myself): The "morals" may be questionable as a whole and a number of them are "ripped off" from other places but they are worded nicely in the bible as opposed to other sources (such as the "Golden Rule" and the like). We're familiar with them in their biblical form but if tossing those out the window and learning a different version to somehow pay homage to that source seems better then by all means do that. By all means go elsewhere. Go to someone else's book (ie. unless you join up...they're all "their" books...unless you could care less about "them" and what "they" think then you can read what you like however you like). I'm not sure what you mean by "spiritual concepts" since I don't believe in a "spirit." So we'd probably end up talking about different things if I were to guess. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted April 4, 2008 Author Super Moderator Share Posted April 4, 2008 mwc, I just mean the NT is geared toward Christians in an exclusive way. It is rigid in its dogma. It presents itself as the ONLY way. Other religious writings aren't so specific and rigid, in that they are offering another way to look at the universe without insisting they know everything and are the Truth for everybody. I don't believe in "spirit" either, but many do, and try to use the Bible to address spiritual issues. I just think the Bible is too much a closed system to effectively deal with universal issues of "spirit" that people crave. I don't see the Bible (esp. NT) as an authority on anything but how to be a Christian. And it's not even clear on that. - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution_beyond Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 I concluded the book is probably the poorest spiritual guide available to us. I think it shares that status with the Qu'ran. But yes, it is one of the poorest spiritual guides available to us. You're much better off with the Upanishads, the Tao te Ching or with Buddhist writings imo The Bible? I think Doctor Who is more profound (and much more enjoyable ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Chris, I know where you're coming from. I see a lot of threads here to the effect of "if the bible was real, would it mean this or that?" It similar to asking if bugs bunny or elmer fudd is more believeable. I tell those few fools who show up at my door that I think the bible is bs, any argument based on it is bs, and I refuse to discuss a book of fairy tales and myths. They usually stammer, stutter, and wander away confused. Mission accomplished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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