Spoomonkey Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 In a debate with family this weekend, one fo them made the statement that Christians are the only people in this country without rights. I had a few responses, but how would you respond to this? Spoomonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Just say "Okay" and let it drop. You can't win that mindset. You'd have to literally produce a mountain of evidence to show that xians have rights and odds are you'd be just proving their point since these would probably be the wrong type of xians that had rights. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 By that they usual mean that they are disappointed that some people want them to have the same amount of rights as everyone else. As opposed to the special privilege their cult has always enjoyed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted April 7, 2008 Super Moderator Share Posted April 7, 2008 I'd say the only right they don't have is the right to promulgate their religion using taxpayer money. They perceive that as their right, but of course it is not only NOT a right, but expressly prohibited by our Constitution. Other than that, I would need to hear from them what they believe to be rights that are denied them. Are they not free to operate religious schools? Build and run tax-free churches? Advertise their businesses? They also have the right to remain silent, but not the ability. (Thank you, Ron Wright) - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm_christ Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 aren't the majority of people in America Christians??? if they don't have rights its their own damn fault. :> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 It's like the conversation I overheard last week between two students. She was obviously a Babble Geek, had the looks, as well as persona to go with it, claiming to the other male student that Christians could not speak up about their religion publicly without being persecuted and shut down... yeah, right... What they really mean is that they can't speak openly without someone is challenging them. That's what is happening today. Not that they can't speak up at all, or are censored, but rather that they are getting rebuttals. For a Christian, freedom of speech is when they can talk unchallenged and without any questioning their wild fantasies. And when it comes to the OP, that Christians is the only group that doesn't have rights. How is that possible with Christians being in majority, and there's mostly only Christians (of some kind) in the government? Just stupid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 In a debate with family this weekend, one fo them made the statement that Christians are the only people in this country without rights. I had a few responses, but how would you respond to this? Spoomonkey I might ask what rights don't they have? I'd like to hear what is perceived as a "right" by that family member. Wouldn't surprise me if they consider being able to ram religion down everyone's throats as a "right" nevermind other people's right's to NOT have that happen. And prayer in schools? Um...you can pray in school all you want, you just can't make anyone beyond yourself pray in school too. It's bad enough that people don't know their rights, worse when they think their rights are at the expense of the rights of others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 After I'd picked myself off the floor laughing, I'd tell them they were cretins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanaslove Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Well, what rights do they really need anyway? They would need the right to choose the religion they wanted-- They have that. They would need freedom of speech-- They have that, they can prostylize on the street and pray whenever or wherever (and even privately in class). They can open Christian schools, run Sunday schools in churches and brainwas--- I mean, teach children. The churches are tax free even when, let's be honest here, most could run themselves without that. I can't think of anything else so I would agree with other posters and asking them what they feel they don't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica Sideways Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Last I checked, Christians have rights. Hell, they have more rights than I do, being an atheistic male-to-female transsexual pansexual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I just remembered the "Jesus is the savior" theme in last weeks American Idol. No Christian complained about infringements of rights there! I think they said "Jesus" more times than "Simon"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica Sideways Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 I just remembered the "Jesus is the savior" theme in last weeks American Idol. No Christian complained about infringements of rights there! I think they said "Jesus" more times than "Simon"... What hypocrites! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 What hypocrites! Every time I see something like this on TV, I think what do Jews, Muslims, Buddhists etc think? It's not only atheists, agnostics, non-theists etc like me, but all the other people representing other religious views, who also get hurt (by the offense principle - same reason why Christians can demand that billboards for nude shows aren't placed next to a Church). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica Sideways Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 What hypocrites! Every time I see something like this on TV, I think what do Jews, Muslims, Buddhists etc think? It's not only atheists, agnostics, non-theists etc like me, but all the other people representing other religious views, who also get hurt (by the offense principle - same reason why Christians can demand that billboards for nude shows aren't placed next to a Church). That gives me an idea, I am going to try to erect a billboard for a nude show next to a church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eejay Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 I don't know where they get off thinking that shit. They have more rights than anybody in this country. For example, I went to an aviation safety seminar this weekend and wouldn't you know it, some x-tian who's running a charitable air ambulance service (nice idea though), took the opportunity to spew some x-tian bullshit while he was up on center stage. When he started talking about the lord, and praying over every patient, and how he takes all this as opportunity to do the lord's work stc. Had I been the person running the show I would have cut power to his microphone. Fuck that shit! If I were a speaker, and threw in a pluf for atheism, I'd have been banned from the remaining seminars. Who the fuck are they kidding, that they don't have rights! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trev Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 In a debate with family this weekend, one fo them made the statement that Christians are the only people in this country without rights. I had a few responses, but how would you respond to this? Spoomonkey That's one of the stupidest things I've heard in a loooooong while, and I wouldn't grace it with an answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ChrisMR Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 The reason you are hearing the "Christians have no rights" line is that no group can survive without identifying an "other" to be opposed, criticized, or feared. Persecution, whether real or imagined, helps any group bond through an "us against the world" mentality. This is also true of us atheists. We should therefore carefully examine our claims with regards to atheists being the most hated group in America, so as to properly understand the mixture of fact and emotion that comprises our sense of persecution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trev Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 The reason you are hearing the "Christians have no rights" line is that no group can survive without identifying an "other" to be opposed, criticized, or feared. Persecution, whether real or imagined, helps any group bond through an "us against the world" mentality. This is also true of us atheists. We should therefore carefully examine our claims with regards to atheists being the most hated group in America, so as to properly understand the mixture of fact and emotion that comprises our sense of persecution. That'a a very smart and eloquent answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobbler Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Had I been the person running the show I would have cut power to his microphone. Fuck that shit! If I were a speaker, and threw in a pluf for atheism, I'd have been banned from the remaining seminars. Who the fuck are they kidding, that they don't have rights! But then he would have believed he was being persecuted for the lawd! He would have been even more empowered. Just think of the testimony he would have given at his church the next sunday! The only reason they spew this crap in public is because they think the rest of us are "lost" and they are working for the lawd god himself to bring us into reconciliation. I guess it comes to the point where if you get the same opportunity to speak at such functions that you let it be known there are other ways of thinking. If you let them know that atheists are normal people like everyone else then maybe one by one people will start to think maybe they were wrong to think of atheists as the lowest of the low. Yet then again maybe not. As far as no christian rights in the U.S., if I were drinking coffee at the time I would have spewed it all over them! The hotter the better. What utter ignorance. Christians can freely assemble anytime they wish at their church of choice without the state's interference, yet they have no rights. Christian preachers and priests can spew their hatred and bigotry anytime they want in their churches and on the street corner primarily without the state's interference, yet they have no rights. Christian churches don't have to pay taxes just like any other nonprofit organization, yet they have no rights. Every cable system in the U.S. has at least 3-4 christian network channels and even on the secular channels they have christian programming, yet they have no rights. On every radio dial throughout the U.S. there are at least 4-5 christian radio stations, yet they have no rights. Nearly every public school in the U.S. allow bible clubs and students can have prayer sessions on school grounds such as "See You At The Pole", yet they have no rights. You can walk into any privately owned business or restaurant and hear christian music and see crosses and bible verses openly displayed, yet they have no rights. You can drive down any major U.S. highway and usually see some gigantic white cross or billboard extolling jesus' love for us, yet they have no rights. Every professional sports event has some christian athlete pointing their finger to the sky praising god and jesus for their touchdown or superbowl victory and cameras showing praying athletes in a circle, yet they have no rights. A U.S. president can say publically he is receiving guidance from god especially regarding the war in Iraq, yet they have no rights. A former U.S. president can publically state that he believes atheists cannot be true patriotic citizens and most people agree with him, yet they have no rights. In 2008, religion plays an huge part in who people are going to vote for in the upcoming presidential campaign, yet they have no rights. On one of the most secular TV programs, "American Idol", jesus is freely sung praises to without any seeming backlash in the press, yet they have no rights. One of the most popular singing acts in 2008, "Hannah Montana", openly and ecstatically praises the name of jesus and relates that she is doing this for him, "Jesus Rocks!", yet they have no rights. Forgive me, I'm about to puke now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 That was a fine post, Gobbler. "Christians have no rights" is about as absurd a statement as "white males have no rights" would be. (I chuckle over the thought of possible lame arguments, such as "a white male can't even run for president, one major party only gives a choice between a black man and a woman.") Of course some details are different, those who are not white males have slowly and gradually been amassing rights over the past century and a half or so, and it's not like it used to be. Sentiment against non-xians, OTOH, in my country, appears to be currently increasing. How xians can go around proclaiming, with a straight face no less, that they are "persecuted" or "have no rights" and are not immediately picked off and and called out for such an absurd statement, but rather are either humored or believed, I think is at least as stunning to me as their being taken seriously and given influence when they say that the earth is 6000 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobbler Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 That was a fine post, Gobbler. "Christians have no rights" is about as absurd a statement as "white males have no rights" would be. (I chuckle over the thought of possible lame arguments, such as "a white male can't even run for president, one major party only gives a choice between a black man and a woman.") Of course some details are different, those who are not white males have slowly and gradually been amassing rights over the past century and a half or so, and it's not like it used to be. Sentiment against non-xians, OTOH, in my country, appears to be currently increasing. How xians can go around proclaiming, with a straight face no less, that they are "persecuted" or "have no rights" and are not immediately picked off and and called out for such an absurd statement, but rather are either humored or believed, I think is at least as stunning to me as their being taken seriously and given influence when they say that the earth is 6000 years old. Thank you! Another thing, you would think christians would want to be legitimately persecuted. It would prove their point in their eyes. Didn't their precious lord say they would be hated because he was hated? You would never hear christians in third world countries or communist countries complain about not having any rights. From what I've read they actually expect persecution and death. They seem to welcome it! Because they will be with their lawd, absent from the body is to be present with the lawd mentality. Christianity today, specifically in the U.S., has nothing to do with early christianity. It is more of a Sunday coffee social club. Except the fact that if you belong to another coffee club not of their liking you are not drinking the right kind of coffee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 In a debate with family this weekend, one fo them made the statement that Christians are the only people in this country without rights. I had a few responses, but how would you respond to this? Spoomonkey Just tell them, no, like every one else, you guys just don't have the right to NOT be offended by the ideas, beliefs, and lifestyles of others and you DON'T have the right to push your beliefs onto others using tax payer money or coersion of any sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica Sideways Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 In a debate with family this weekend, one fo them made the statement that Christians are the only people in this country without rights. I had a few responses, but how would you respond to this? Spoomonkey Just tell them, no, like every one else, you guys just don't have the right to NOT be offended by the ideas, beliefs, and lifestyles of others and you DON'T have the right to push your beliefs onto others using tax payer money or coersion of any sort. Precisely! Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm_christ Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 That gives me an idea, I am going to try to erect a billboard for a nude show next to a church. i bet that would be pretty hard to do, you would probably face some stiff opposition. sorry :< i had to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaPirate Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 It's like the conversation I overheard last week between two students. She was obviously a Babble Geek, had the looks, as well as persona to go with it, claiming to the other male student that Christians could not speak up about their religion publicly without being persecuted and shut down... yeah, right... What they really mean is that they can't speak openly without someone is challenging them. That's what is happening today. Not that they can't speak up at all, or are censored, but rather that they are getting rebuttals. For a Christian, freedom of speech is when they can talk unchallenged and without any questioning their wild fantasies. And when it comes to the OP, that Christians is the only group that doesn't have rights. How is that possible with Christians being in majority, and there's mostly only Christians (of some kind) in the government? Just stupid! Well put! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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