Neon Genesis Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 When I first deconverted to Christianity, the agnostic label was very appealing to me at the time for several reasons. I think one reason is that I didn't really know much about the big bang theory at the time and another being that I was still somewhat under the sway of the cosmological argument. I had my doubts that nobody could really know the truth about God, but at the same time, I just couldn't understand how the universe could be created without a God, and I still didn't understand how something could exist without a first cause. I used to think that if God existed, he was exempt from the cosmological argument because God was eternal, but while I'm still not an expert on the big bang theory, the more I think about the cosmological argument, the less this makes sense. One reason why this doesn't make much sense to me anymore is that nobody can prove that God is eternal unless they've actually met God. Since nobody has proven to have met God yet, then no one can prove that God is indeed eternal. And since there is no proof God is eternal, why must God be exempt from the cosmological argument? Also, I used to think that agnosticism and atheism were incompatible stances, but when you stop and think about it, unless they have evidence, nobody can truly be gnostic about the existence of God, and so the agnostic label seems unnecessary to me the more I think about it. I think one other thing that really stuck out to me was I was recently reading the book God Is Not Great and Hitchens made a good point in it that I had never considered before that basically goes that the universe works just fine without God, which makes sense when I stop and think about it. Since it makes sense without God, unless the existence is proven, I don't see a reason a for me to hold onto an untestable probability of God's existence other than it makes sense to hold onto an untestable probability of the existence of magical fat men who deliver presents to good little boys and girls. That doesn't mean I claim to know the truth about God's existence or that I think other people shouldn't have reasons to hold onto a belief if that's what works for them, I just don't see a reason for me personally to hold onto it. If undeniable psychical evidence for the existence of God is ever revealed, then I will of course examine the evidence and reconsider things, but until then I see no reason for me to believe in God and officially announce my final leap to atheism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trev Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 I think growing the love from Christian, to agnostic, to nothing is a natural progression for some people. The problem is, is you don't leave Christianity with a fixed point in mind, so it's hard to say when your journey away from Christianity is complete or finished. Well in some ways I guess it never is or will be but I think and hope you take my point. I think it can be like 'when you come to the end of God, you come to the start of yourself' - the reverse of what a Chrsitian would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 White Raven might suggest that you go ahead and drop all the labels Neon. I might take her lead too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted April 8, 2008 Super Moderator Share Posted April 8, 2008 I did what most people do when leaving Christianity. I looked for that same god in a different costume. Not finding him, I slowly came to the atheist position, though not realizing it at the time. In a friendly discussion with some non-religious people they said out loud the word "atheist." It fit me, but I had never labeled myself or sought that as a goal. People are happy to label you, you don't need to label yourself! - Chris the Raving Atheist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 The only label that will always be valid, is your own given name. Smooches Legion! Gotta be careful what I say....folks listen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsmoke Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Welcome to the club, Neon. You've just pretty well covered my story as well. I think Trev hit the nail on the head in saying that's kind of the natural progression for some of us. As an aside; being a self-professed grammar nazi, the idea agnosticism and atheism are two mutually exclusive positions gives me fits. They're each dealing with separate issues, where "gnostic" is rooted in the Greek "to know" and "theism" comes from that same language's "to believe." As we all know only two well, that's a comparison of apples and oranges. If one wants to be really literal about it, as you mentioned above (and as I love to point out as well), there doesn't exist any individual on the whole face of the Earth who isn't truly agnostic, because there doesn't exist any individual on the whole face of the Earth who truly knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitchu Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Welcome to this side of the red velvet rope, Neon... just know that that big bruiser who looks you over to see if you'd be a good addition on the dance floor will never lift that rope for you again! Really, since I've yet to catch myself going about my daily routine reminding myself of my atheist label, I see only one good reason to maintain and espouse it: it gives people fits who already grew to like me before they knew the awful truth about me. (Atheists of this stripe are sort of the Johnny Appleseeds of cognitive dissonance.) And the "believing" ones who stick around to become dedicated friends and associates get to say to other folks, "Well, I know an atheist, and she's not a bit like you say atheists are!" I think the world needs us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsmoke Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Well said as always, Ma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skiergirl24 Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 After leaving Christianity, I also looked for "God in a different costume" (love that!). I never found him. I no longer believe in a personal God. I am agnostic in the sense that I feel there *may* be a higher intelligence or power..what I am not sure though! My views lean fowards deism. I guess I am an agnostic deist...LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Net Eng Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 If undeniable psychical evidence for the existence of God is ever revealed, then I will of course examine the evidence and reconsider things, but until then I see no reason for me to believe in God and officially announce my final leap to atheism. Hear, Hear!!! Welcome to the atheist side of the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitchu Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Well said as always, Ma. Ah, I can always count on my Sonny-wood for a little boost of the already over-inflated ego! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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