Marriage

[SWIM]

I often wonder why people stay together. Kids are grown, or in some cases, no kids at all. The years pass, the two of you change, drift apart. Funny how people cling and stay together, even when they both have changed so dramatically over time.

 

One likes to laugh, the other always sad. One hates music, or only listens to it on rare occasions, the other thrives on it. Even watching movies, the meaning of the story seems different for both...

 

Yet when one wakes up, and wants out, the other resists. Even though intimacy is a thing of the past. "I love you"'s are robotic-like spoken, with no meaning. Alcohol once used for social pleasures become a daily dose of medicine. Medicine itself, intended to help one's aliments, become more for the mind then the body. Everyday becomes another day past, and your life is spent waiting, instead of living.

 

Are we destined to be stuck forever? Till death do us part? Why does one hold on to a lost dream, while the other is ready to start living again?

 

Opinions change, points of view change, not just for one, but both. Each, in time, evolve and become different then they were years ago. Dreams change, visions change, beliefs change. But life goes on. Why do people stagnate in relationships? Why do we become trapped in a world of our own creations?

 

Why do I write crap like this in the middle of the night?

[Alice]

Why does one hold on to a lost dream, while the other is ready to start living again?

 

Sometimes a person holds on because because they believe in the power of the first dream and that it's loss is temporary. Sometimes they hold on because a new dream is yet to be found.

 

p.s doesn't sound like to crap to me - it sounds heartfelt.

[kozimoto]

No one is static. And that means no real guarantees; but who can bear to let go all the time?

[Mongo]

Wow... there's a lot of emotion portrayed in that OP. As Alice points out, its genuine.

 

When I reflect on who my wife is and who I am, I find there is a fair difference between who each of us is. We've been together 13 years but I don't perceive us as having grown apart as much as I see that at the beginning, we didn't understand each other very well.

 

Over time the varnish wears off and we better understand our partner's strengths and weaknesses.

 

As an example, one irritation in our marriage is that I'm very musical and my wife is devoid of musical talent. She says, "I can hear it in my head but I can't play or sing it". Anyway, I'm fond of singing whatever tune is in my head but every time I start doing that she chimes in with me and makes it sound like hell. I can't stand it - she sounds awful.

 

In the same way that Wayne Gretsky doesn't play recreational hockey with his wife or Lance Armstrong doesn't hop on a bicycle built for two with a 400 pound friend and then go biking "for fun" I don't like singing with my wife.

 

I simply stopped singing when she is around and now when she is not home (rarely) I've stopped thinking about it.

 

Neither of us drifted apart but we've discovered a larger gap than we originally imagined.

 

In this and other ways, my wife does not make room for my individuality. She want's me to spend time with her but then complains about a habit or a preference. It is fairly destructive behaviour.

 

I like what President Carter says about why his marriage succeeds(paraphrase): "We have our own interests". Obviously they make room for their differences. I think there is value in that.

 

Why do people continue...

 

I think there are a lot of reasons but I can think of a couple that I don't think the credit they deserve.

 

Firstly, for most problems, people generally tend to throw good money after bad. Many people don't know when they have spent enough of their emotional capital on a relationship that will not get better. They can't see that the crest of the hill is far away so they continue through the forrest until they are exasperated.

 

To play on that particular theme a bit more... it has been shown that people have a greater appreciation for things that have come the hard way. So I believe that people have hope that if they can persevere long enough and that they can get past the problems, they will one day arrive at happier times. Studies show that, because of the hard work and effort, they *will* appreciate their marriage better.

 

I believe however that this depends on the marriage actually getting better. I doubt that merely sticking it out counts so if "better times" never come, there is nothing to appreciate - just a lot of hard work.

 

Secondly, I believe many people pretend that the reasons they stay together have less to do with the economics of living than they care to admit.

 

I see us as humans who are keen to deceive ourselves and pretend we're honest. So we scour our minds for reasons to allow us to maintain the lifestyle that we enjoy *alot*.

 

Swim, thanks sharing your thoughts.

 

Mongo

[GraphicsGuy]

We always hurt the ones we love most, don't we?

 

We yearn for the things we once had, yet we constantly look at what could be.

 

I hear ya, SWIM. I often still miss what I had and really don't know where I'm going right now. Still, I don't regret the breakup. It had to happen or I would have died all over again.

 

I think you may be feeling the looming of the inevitable end...

[gradstu09]

I think it's over when mutual willingness to work at it ends. I am sorry for you, man.

[SWIM]

Thanks guys, that helped me a lot reading that, and mongo, thank you for the detail and insight.

[florduh]

Damn, SWIM. Hate to hear it. Wish I could help.

 

- Chris

[♦ nivek ♦]

SWIM...

 

"aint'a no easy choices"

 

I suspect you already have path you'd prefer to take planned, or at least thought about deeply.

 

*If* you elect to end marriage, do so quickly and with as little drama as you can.

 

Hide your assets, take what you want or need, and see your attorney.

 

Then shit will get complicated.

 

kL

[Deva]

Your OP was very moving SWIM. I agree with Skip. So sorry to hear it, but my advice is if you make the final decision, do it quickly and don't look back. No long drawn out talk about it. See attorney - then get out. I have been there, although the circumstances were somewhat different than yours.

[SWIM]

Your OP was very moving SWIM. I agree with Skip. So sorry to hear it, but my advice is if you make the final decision, do it quickly and don't look back. No long drawn out talk about it. See attorney - then get out. I have been there, although the circumstances were somewhat different than yours.

 

For reasons some of you know, I cannot go into detail as to the origin of my pondering. But, suffice it to say, it is complicated, and confusing on both a practical and emotional level. A lot of this advice concurs with what I have been told already in the non-internet world. No avoiding the "drawn-out" aspect it seems...

 

Thanks again folks. Maybe in less turbulent, intrusive times I might share a bit more of the details. Those that know me better then most, understand the crypticness of my post/replies on this topic. I appreciate your understanding/support and it is refreshing to know that others understand this type of issue on a deeper level. Suffice it to say, ATM, patience is the key to success.

[godlessgrrl]

I'm sorry circumstances compel you to have to ask such painful questions about your marriage, SWIM. It really sucks if/when things have reached a state where questions like that are necessary.

 

When I had to ask all those things, in my first marriage, the only answer I came up with was that I would stay as long as the benefits of staying outweighed the benefits of leaving. What "benefits" means depends on who you are and what your values, wants, needs, and so on are. But if it serves you to stay, then stay. If it serves you better to leave, then leave.

 

For me, it came down to suicide, homicide, or divorce. So the equation was a simple one. I wanted to leave and knew that one of us would end up dead if I didn't (most likely me).

 

I don't know that it's often that clean-cut a decision, though. One's mileage may vary.

 

Why people stay, well - either it benefits them to stay, or maybe they just don't want to believe it's all really over. In some sense a marriage is an investment where you give over a portion of your life to someone else; you spend time, age, emotions, hard work, all this living that you can't ever get back again. It can be hard to admit that the investment turned out to be a waste of time and years in the only lifespan you know you have for sure.

 

Whatever you decide to do, hang in there and good luck.

[florduh]

It can be hard to admit that the investment turned out to be a waste of time and years in the only lifespan you know you have for sure.

 

 

I have to disagree with that statement. Sounds like my grandmother when my parents divorced after 25 year. She said to my mother, "I told you it wouldn't last. What a waste of your life."

 

Well, in those 25 years, 20 were pretty good, lots of fun times, and three wonderful children were produced (myself being the most wonderful).

 

It's not an investment, it's just life being lived day by day. Don't be so quick to write off everything as a total loss. There had to be good times in there. It's just time to move on now. Those years weren't wasted at all.

 

- Chris

[florduh]

It can be hard to admit that the investment turned out to be a waste of time and years in the only lifespan you know you have for sure.

 

 

I have to disagree with that statement. Sounds like my grandmother when my parents divorced after 25 year. She said to my mother, "I told you it wouldn't last. What a waste of your life."

 

Well, in those 25 years, 20 were pretty good, lots of fun times, and three wonderful children were produced (myself being the most wonderful).

 

It's not an investment, it's just life being lived day by day. Don't be so quick to write off everything as a total loss. There had to be good times in there. It's just time to move on now. Those years weren't wasted at all.

 

- Chris

[Deva]

For me, it came down to suicide, homicide, or divorce. So the equation was a simple one. I wanted to leave and knew that one of us would end up dead if I didn't (most likely me).

 

Same with me, Gwen and I felt a real closeness with you when I read the above statement. Of course everyone's situation is different.

 

I will say that although it was nearly 20 years ago, I have never regretted leaving for one moment. It was a necessity. When situations are not so clear-cut, it becomes more complicated.

 

SWIM, I really can't presume to tell you what works best. Whatever you decide,we are here for you (even if its just here in cyberspace.)

[mwc]

It's not an investment, it's just life being lived day by day. Don't be so quick to write off everything as a total loss. There had to be good times in there. It's just time to move on now. Those years weren't wasted at all.

Rather what you describe is more like an opportunity cost I would say.

 

mwc

[PandaPirate]

I often wonder why people stay together. Kids are grown, or in some cases, no kids at all. The years pass, the two of you change, drift apart. Funny how people cling and stay together, even when they both have changed so dramatically over time.

 

One likes to laugh, the other always sad. One hates music, or only listens to it on rare occasions, the other thrives on it. Even watching movies, the meaning of the story seems different for both...

 

Yet when one wakes up, and wants out, the other resists. Even though intimacy is a thing of the past. "I love you"'s are robotic-like spoken, with no meaning. Alcohol once used for social pleasures become a daily dose of medicine. Medicine itself, intended to help one's aliments, become more for the mind then the body. Everyday becomes another day past, and your life is spent waiting, instead of living.

 

Are we destined to be stuck forever? Till death do us part? Why does one hold on to a lost dream, while the other is ready to start living again?

 

Opinions change, points of view change, not just for one, but both. Each, in time, evolve and become different then they were years ago. Dreams change, visions change, beliefs change. But life goes on. Why do people stagnate in relationships? Why do we become trapped in a world of our own creations?

 

Why do I write crap like this in the middle of the night?

 

Because love is like crack. You keep wanting to experience that first high but you can't.

[Dhampir]

Well said. I concur.

[SWIM]

Because love is like crack. You keep wanting to experience that first high but you can't.

 

 

I can agree with this, and a lot said above. However, as one pointed out, there are reasons, 2 of them, that make it NOT a waste of past years. Also, I guess it is in a way like a drug. But chasing the dragon of love has long since failed, at least for one of us.

 

Seems there are a lot here that can relate, of that I am thankful. Everyone here has helped me in so many ways, the humor, the conflicts we share, not just with the people that stumble in here from the old religion, but in life issues as well, these things help me cope. Coping has become a nessecity to keep my sanity.

 

I think though, that the jones for the old passion is not a shared feeling. I think I've already kicked that, it's the other one that refuses to pull the needle out.

 

I face some challenges in the future, and due to circumstances beyond my control, it appears that it will be a slower process then I am comfortable with.

 

For me, it came down to suicide, homicide, or divorce. So the equation was a simple one. I wanted to leave and knew that one of us would end up dead if I didn't (most likely me).

 

Gwen, fortunately I have never been violent to that level for either myself or her. Though in the past, those thoughts have wandered through my mind, the first two are not options, the later however has been obvious for a long time. I am thankful that I have friends like you folks to at the very least, lend an understanding ear.

 

Thanks again folks.

 

 

I'll be OK I think.

[ogilvy]

I often wonder why people stay together. Kids are grown, or in some cases, no kids at all. The years pass, the two of you change, drift apart. Funny how people cling and stay together, even when they both have changed so dramatically over time.

 

One likes to laugh, the other always sad. One hates music, or only listens to it on rare occasions, the other thrives on it. Even watching movies, the meaning of the story seems different for both...

 

Yet when one wakes up, and wants out, the other resists. Even though intimacy is a thing of the past. "I love you"'s are robotic-like spoken, with no meaning. Alcohol once used for social pleasures become a daily dose of medicine. Medicine itself, intended to help one's aliments, become more for the mind then the body. Everyday becomes another day past, and your life is spent waiting, instead of living.

 

Are we destined to be stuck forever? Till death do us part? Why does one hold on to a lost dream, while the other is ready to start living again?

 

Opinions change, points of view change, not just for one, but both. Each, in time, evolve and become different then they were years ago. Dreams change, visions change, beliefs change. But life goes on. Why do people stagnate in relationships? Why do we become trapped in a world of our own creations?

 

Why do I write crap like this in the middle of the night?

i'm definitely not an expert on marriage, having been out of it for a long time. but looking around at other people i sometimes see lovely old couples, and even middle aged, holding hands as they go down the street. maybe they are still in love, which would be nice. i hear that it takes a lot of work to make a good marriage, a lot of tolerance. i myself didnt have what it takes to do that. i do find as i get older, that those people who i've known well for a long time, come to mean more, just because i have known them a long itme. i guess that would mean even more if it was one's partner. i sometimes think marriage is like a partnership, a bit like a business partnership. the people work together for mutual support, which is great, and that bond remains even when age and loss of looks comes. in fact, it probably gets stronger with time. anyway these are the thoughts of someone who prefers to go alone, but can't help sometimes envying those who have whatever it takes to remain loyal for a lifetime.

[godlessgrrl]

I suppose I have a "don't waste your time" bias because, for me, my first marriage really was a waste of time. I never should have gotten involved in the first place, and I regret every moment of the relationship to this day. It was an utter disaster. Leaving was the best thing I could have done, for both of us.

 

So take it as read that I'm looking at the whole thing through the very biased lens of my own experience.

 

When it comes down to it, things like figuring out how you value your marriage and in what ways is going to come down to you. Mine was indeed a waste, but maybe yours wasn't. Even if it needs to end. And figuring out when and how it needs to end is tricky (and often painful) under the best of circumstances.

 

In any case, hang in there and do whatever you need to do to figure it all out. It'll be hard, but it'll be ok in the end.

[Guest Net Eng]

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Are we destined to be stuck forever? Till death do us part? Why does one hold on to a lost dream, while the other is ready to start living again?

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Why do I write crap like this in the middle of the night?

 

To give you perspective I have been married for 24 years (all to the same person).

 

I concur with Skip here. If you want out then make that decision and then do so quickly. No need for long drawn out discussions or "cry-fests".

 

I do believe that people can change over time. Not just the letting down of our guard, but real change.

 

You write this in the middle of the night because that is when your guard is down and you're being honest with yourself.