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Goodbye Jesus

Ex-russian Orthodox Christian


Guest Gaia

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Hello, I'm back...

 

Due to me reading fervently the book mentioned in my signature, the crossing from THAT world to the real, sane world of non-Christianity is almost complete for me.

 

Before I continue, I may not have as much bitterness as many of you, because I actually kind of liked being a Christian. I think to Russians, their "faith" is almost inseparable from their nationality, at least that's how I felt. From childhood, I "felt" I was born to be an Orthodox Christian. I loved the churches with their scent of incense and the beautiful icons (albeit gloomy!), and I loved the feel of the Bible, even though it was hard to read it.

 

A few years ago, I met some extremely kind Catholic people who turned my life around to the better, and this propelled me to be "spiritual" more intensely than I did as a kid. They encouraged me to pray the Rosary, to accept Mary, and to love Jesus. I liked these things. But there were symptoms that blocked my spiritual growth: I scrutinized the Rosary prayer and couldn't understand why it had to mention the word "sinner" so many times... it felt so... oppressing. I felt a special connection to Mother Mary, but found her washed out "whiteness" and cleanliness, repulsive. And I kind of liked Jesus, but felt it would be phony of me to praise him every single day.

 

To make the story short, the bridge had been burned when I thought about the fact that the word "pagan" in Russian is a curse word. I have never thought about this before, and I am sure most Russians don't stop to think about that. But I now find it disturbing.

 

I find all abrahamic religions UNHEALTHY to every single aspect of human existence.

 

Thanks for reading and for being here....

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Welcome Gaia,

 

Do you think that Russians take their religion seriously enough to think about any of it? In my experience living in Russia going on 4 years now, only a handful of babushki take the religion seriously, while most approach their religion as if it were nothing more than a superficial superstition.

 

If they want something very badly, they light a candle. They put an icon on the dashboard of their car to keep them out of accidents. They might have an icon in their house to bless the house. After that, that's about it. They don't seem to give it much thought.

 

I have never seen a Russian attempt to proselitize and I have never seen a Russian worry about going to hell or getting forgiveness or anything so droll.

 

The most extreme I've seen is from my wife's old boss. When opening a new office, he brought the priests by to bless it with insense. Everyone stood off to the side and giggled while the ceremony took place.

 

I'm curious to hear your perspective as an insider. My observations are all from the outside looking in.

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Greetings.

 

Catholicism does just what you speak of. It brainwashes people, just as much as Evangelical Christianity. These branches teach you, that you're a sinner, who deserves death, or punishment. Which is why Catholic monks suffer under religious oppression, much like children in Jesus camp.

 

The Russian Orthodox Christians, however give you a choice. They give you the opportunity to choose, whether you're with them or not. Russian Orthodoxy at least has Jesus in the center of their stained glass windows. Unlike Catholics, who worship Mary.

 

And you're right to say, that Abrahamic faiths are unhealthy.

 

Islam, Christianity and Judaism are against human rights.

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Hello Gaia, and welcome!

 

 

A quote from your post: "I find all abrahamic religions UNHEALTHY to every single aspect of human existence."

 

I fully agree. For centuries, these religions have waged "spiritual" warfare on humanity and those who have resisted their dominance.

 

In the last 2,000 years, Judaism has become much more benign than Christianity and Islam, but it is the mother (or is that the father?) of the three.

 

Christianity and Islam, more than any other religions, have attempted to shove their doctrines down people's throats. Doubtless there have been other pushy faiths over the centuries, but the Abrahamic religions have been like a malignant cancer that humanity needs to eliminate before it can advance and realize its potential.

 

One can only hope that reason — and scores of people like us joining its call — will help serve as the chemotherapy to make humanity well again!

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Guest Zenobia

Zdravstvuite, Gaia!

 

I especially enjoyed your post because I lived in Russia for two years. I was sent there as part of a Church mission, believe it or not, back in the early 90's. The Russians I met back then were not very religious, it was still the Soviet Union while I was living there. In fact, Leningrad changed to St Petersburg while I was there!

 

I've always been interested in learning more about Russian paganism (I did not know this was a curse word - I did not learn much "mut" while I was there). What would be the correct way to refer to someone who is pagan or wiccan in Russian, without offending someone?

 

In the community where I live there are about 25,000 Russian-speaking people, mostly Ukrainian. Most of them are Baptists or Pentecostals. Some have told me they had to leave Russia because of religious persecution by the Russian Orthadox Church, not the Soviet Government. I found that ironic, to say the least... Anyway, ufortunately I do not have many opportunities to speak Russian even though there are so many who speak it here. They are the "born again" types - and there's nothing quite like hearing "do you take Jesus to be your personal savior?" in Russian!!

 

Anyway, congratulations on your "exodus"... I enjoyed hearing it. I just posted my own testimony today as well.

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I asked my wife and she informs me that язычник is not an offensive term in Russian.

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Guest Zenobia
I asked my wife and she informs me that Ñзычник is not an offensive term in Russian.

 

Thank you! What an interesting word. Derived from the word "language" or "tongue," yes?

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Yes, it is derived from the word tongue, but it means a practitioner of old religion.

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I asked my wife and she informs me that Ñзычник is not an offensive term in Russian.

 

I was referring to the word 'паган' (literal translation - "pagan")

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Again, referred to my wife, who says she has never heard the word паган in Russian. :shrug:

 

Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but it might not be well known if it does.

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Welcome Gaia,

 

Do you think that Russians take their religion seriously enough to think about any of it? In my experience living in Russia going on 4 years now, only a handful of babushki take the religion seriously, while most approach their religion as if it were nothing more than a superficial superstition.

 

If they want something very badly, they light a candle. They put an icon on the dashboard of their car to keep them out of accidents. They might have an icon in their house to bless the house. After that, that's about it. They don't seem to give it much thought.

 

I have never seen a Russian attempt to proselitize and I have never seen a Russian worry about going to hell or getting forgiveness or anything so droll.

 

The most extreme I've seen is from my wife's old boss. When opening a new office, he brought the priests by to bless it with insense. Everyone stood off to the side and giggled while the ceremony took place.

 

I'm curious to hear your perspective as an insider. My observations are all from the outside looking in.

 

Hi Vigile.

Thank you for sharing that.

You revealed some things that I never thought about. You are probably right... It's much more mellow than Catholicism, for example.

I left Russia as a teen, so I didn't get a chance to explore the Russian Orthodox religion from an adult point of view. After I left, I didn't observe it much or anything... then I adopted some Catholic beliefs. So as you see, I don't have much of a perspective to give.

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Again, referred to my wife, who says she has never heard the word паган in Russian. :shrug:

 

Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but it might not be well known if it does.

 

That's a bit strange :) It is well known - it's a word as well known as the word "fool" or "stupid". You say "паган" instead of "fool" if you want to imply someone is a horrible excuse of a human being.

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Well, I guess I can't speak for why my wife doesn't know this word. She's a native Russian speaker and we both live in Russia. Are you sure you are not thinking of the word ДУРАК?

 

Maybe it's a generational thing. My wife is 37 so she probably doesn't know new slang kids are using today.

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Guest Zenobia
Well, I guess I can't speak for why my wife doesn't know this word. She's a native Russian speaker and we both live in Russia. Are you sure you are not thinking of the word ДУРÐК?

 

Maybe it's a generational thing. My wife is 37 so she probably doesn't know new slang kids are using today.

 

Sorry I don't know how to acess cyrillic font, but the word you used "durok" (or it's feminine form, dura) are well known to me. And now that Gaia wrote pagan in cyrillic I remember that word also. It would be considered much more offenseive that durok! I think the difference was in the pronounciation. If pronounced "PAY-gun" like it is in English, then no it doesn't sound familiar to me in Russian. But pronounced "pa-GAHN" in Russian - it makes sence :)

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I wonder if the word паган is used in Belarus or the Ukraine or elsewhere outside of mother Russia? My wife continues to scratch her head when I ask her about it. We live in Petersburg.

 

In order to type in Cyrillic I click Shift-Alt. But I am on a Russian keyboard with a Russian operating system. It probably won't work on yours unless you download some software.

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Guest Zenobia
I wonder if the word паган is used in Belarus or the Ukraine or elsewhere outside of mother Russia? My wife continues to scratch her head when I ask her about it. We live in Petersburg.

 

In order to type in Cyrillic I click Shift-Alt. But I am on a Russian keyboard with a Russian operating system. It probably won't work on yours unless you download some software.

 

I hope I can visit St Petersburg again... I would really like to see how it has changed in the last 15 years since I lived there. I probably wouldn't even recognize it! Is there still the main farmer's market - the "rynok" - to go shopping? I used to go there and haggle for my groceries and the Georgian mafia boys would always hit on me. Heh...

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Other than the prices, new restaurants, malls, and German cars that replaced the Ladas, it probably hasn't changed that much.

 

We still go to the Rynok and haggle. My wife gets tired of the Georgians who have no shame about hitting on the girls, but I think it's great fun.

 

We still go to the banya. We still drink a lot of beer and tell anecdoti. Russian's still have warm hearts and fun spirits. They still live for the day letting tomorrow take care of itself. Now, they just have more money to throw around while they do it.

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Guest Zenobia
We still go to the banya. We still drink a lot of beer and tell anecdoti. Russian's still have warm hearts and fun spirits. They still live for the day letting tomorrow take care of itself. Now, they just have more money to throw around while they do it.

 

Ooooh the BANYA.... I have fond memories of the dacha and the banya... not such fond memories of the ladas ;-)

 

Warm hearts and fun spirits.... yes, I miss the Russian spirit very, very much.

 

Did you ever watch a TV show called "Naidi Menya"? It was a "dating game show" that played on kanal 6 - while the lenteleradiokomitet was still in charge and the station broadcast nationwide. Believe it or not, I was a consultant on that TV show during my time there. Heh...

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I haven't seen a dating show like that, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I don't watch much Russian tv. Very cool that you were working for the station though. Were you living in Moskva or Peterburg?

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Guest Zenobia
I haven't seen a dating show like that, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I don't watch much Russian tv. very cool that you were working for the station though. Were you living in Moskva or Peterburg?

 

LOL Neither - I was living in Leningrad.

 

Actually, it changed to St. Petersburg while I was there. This was 1991-1993. I'm not sure if they kept airing Naidi Menya after that... It was a lot of fun. They wanted me to help introduce some "Western" concepts to the show. This was during Perestroika and Glasnost... Before I worked on the show, it was a more serious, Soviet-era program. They would actually hire a psychiatrist to talk to the "contestants" prior to the live show, and warn them that this was the most important day in their lives and that they would meet their lifetime mate, etc. So the contestants would be really rattled when they came on. The shows went something like this:

 

Girl: "Bachelor number one - what is the first thing you think of in morning?"

Boy: "I think of Perestroika. I think of becoming a better Soviet man."

 

So I tried to introduce the concept of "humor." I am not saying Russians have no sense of humor - I am saying SOVIETS had no sense of humor, at least not on this show. So I had a big discussion with the producer. Her name was Klara Mikhailovna Fatova. And she seriously weighed like 400 pounds. We never told her what her last name meant in English. LOl... So I was very humble when I approached her, because she was one of those Elitist Soviet types. The conversation went kind of like this:

 

"Klara Mikhailovna, I was thinking perhaps if some of the questions were humorous, people might respond to the show better..."

"Zenobia (not my real name, but for the sake of the story), you know nothing of Soviet life. Our life is very difficult and tragic..."

"Yes, Klara Mikhailovna, you are right as always. But this is why I think humor might help. It might ease the pain of life.."

"Zenobia, you know nothing of Soviet life."

 

Fortunately, Klara Mikhailovna left the show in a big huff not long after that. So it was turned over to a 22-year-old producer in the newly formed Advertisement Department (where I worked as a consultant) and together we did a complete overhauling of the show. I wrote funny questions in Russian - which they translated into much better Russian (LOL) and the show went something like this:

 

Girl: "Bachelor number one, what is the first thing you think of in the morning?"

Boy: "I think of urinating!"

 

This was hugely successful and the shows ratings jumped up 200%. Last I heard the show was still airing in 1997. Anyway... it was a lot of fun working on the show.

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Girl: "Bachelor number one - what is the first thing you think of in morning?"

Boy: "I think of Perestroika. I think of becoming a better Soviet man."

 

That's hilarious. Now, it would probably go something like this: Bleen! Devushka, mozhna piva!

 

That was just a joke. Seriously, television is a mix of old Soviet era singers. You probably know Alla Pygochova. She's like a music mafia maven who controls the entire music scene. It's flashy, gawdy, and sounds like Swedish music from the 1980s (they love Abba). And, then there is the MTV-type shows that cater to the younger generation. It's very western. I'd say in the style of Big Brother/Temptation Island.

 

MTV also has a nightly striptease gameshow where strippers compete before a panel of judges something like American Idol. It gets pretty down and dirty. No one today would, I think, say "you know nothing of Soviet life," as they are too busy getting what would appear to Americans as hedonistic.

 

And she seriously weighed like 400 pounds

 

I've seen only one person that large since I've been here so she was truly cursed by that name I guess.

 

My wife says she remembers the show but she isn't sure if it's still airing.

 

Programing is pretty sporatic. A series or a show will be on for a few weeks and then disappear only to be replaced with something else. You can't really set your schedule by the tv.

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BTW, Zenobia, you might enjoy this site: http://www.exile.ru/

 

It's pretty harsh at times, but it gives a good view of Russian life today.

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Guest Zenobia

Vigile... LOL, you crack me up.

 

That's hilarious. Now, it would probably go something like this: Bleen! Devushka, mozhna piva!

 

Or they would call the show something like "Voidi Menya" lol... just kidding...

 

Yes I have heard of Alla Pygochova. You know when I lived there I sang a song for Igor Azarov. Don't know if you have heard of him, but he was pretty big back I the early 90's. We had to sneak onto the Soviet Army base to record it. I swear, he snuck me onto the base so that he could use the redArmy Choir's recording equipment. LOL. then they found out I was american and the conversation went kind of like this:

 

Army officer: "Kto ona?"

Igor: "Ona amerikanka."

Army officer: "SCHTO??"

 

But he didn't do anything about it since he was the one that let me in :funny:

 

Anyway the song was written i English and was pretty Barbara Streisand-ish. It was called "Another Woman" and it premiered live on one of the New Year's special programs of Naidi Menya.

 

It would be interesting to watch Russian TV. I've seen the stripping Anchor lady... it'spretty funny. The strip-tease show sounds hillarious.

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