Role Of The Unanswered Question

[R. S. Martin]

Been talking in another thread about the stories of Cain. Where did he get his wives? According to Genesis, the only people who existed were Adam, Eve, and himself. He had killed Abel. Also, why did God have to protect Cain from getting killed when he exiled him for killing Abel?

 

When I asked my mother about this she would only sigh and try to distract me from my questions, as though that would make them go away. All it did was teach me to keep my questions to myself. There were so many others in the Bible. And then there's the one about how do we know the Bible is true? And how do we know that God himself exists?

Those are just some of the more obvious ones that most people here have asked.

 

Christians insist we must have faith and that faith is not logical. Granted. But all the same this lack of logic, and outright contradiction of logic, does seem lead to deconversion in a very large number of cases.

 

I think the case is greatly exacerbated because of the teaching that the Bible is inerrant and infallible and inspired by God himself. Then they use the Bible to prove the Bible. That's like hanging a chain onto itself by its own links with nothing to hang it on or support it.

 

Oh! but you daren't question GOD!!!!! Yeah right. The Bible tells us all we need to know for salvation. Really???? It requires me to lie, while at the same time forbidding me to do so. That is not exactly salvation in my mind. So how is this supposed to work?

 

Oh now I get it. I have to take it in faith. That is code for: There is no answer.

 

Since there is no answer I am obligated to deconvert.

 

Christians don't like it but that's just the way it works. They don't answer questions with logic; we deconvert.

[florduh]

I used to question the hell out of my pastor (pun intended). He was quite the scholar, but had the blind spot. Genesis was one marathon session we had. I give him credit for taking so much time with me, but his final reply was always, "doubt your doubts."

 

I heard that moronic phrase once too often. The rest is history.

 

- Chris

[upstarter]

Doubt your doubts??? Wow, that's new one. I thought I had heard all the trite xtian throwaway lines.

 

Anyway, to the OP... yes, I also deconverted because of the unanswered questions. Not only because they were unanswered but because I was told pointblank, not to ask them. Asking them distracted others from their own belief. My questions were "disruptive". Yep, damned right! They disrupted my spiritual path right out the door.

 

What I continue to find impossible to fathom is why all xtians (okay why all intelligent xtians) aren't asking the same questions? My sister for one. I want to shake her. Why isn't she asking these questions? How can they just step over them? It's just unfathomable to me.

 

Heather

[Legion]

I used to question the hell out of my pastor (pun intended). He was quite the scholar, but had the blind spot. Genesis was one marathon session we had. I give him credit for taking so much time with me, but his final reply was always, "doubt your doubts."

Chris I don't know if I've ever heard such a succinct formula for denial before. Doubt your doubts. Yeah man.

[Deva]

Yeah, "doubt your doubts" that's a good one. It sounds like something a fundy pastor or brain dead priest would say. What an idiot.

[chefranden]

As for me, without a doubt I doubt doubting my doubts.

 

Edit: I can't help it. Doubt is with out a doubt a goofy looking word. Dought, there that looks better.

[R. S. Martin]

Doesn't that thing about doubting your doubt come from some philosopher or other--Nieztche (sp?) maybe? I know...he would have meant it in a totally different context...but the words or the concept look sort of familiar to me.

[florduh]

The quote is from an F.F. Bosworth, but I don't know the context. I think its entirety is something like, "Believe your beliefs, doubt your doubts."

 

-Chris

[Guest eejay]

Doubt your doubts??? Wow, that's new one. I thought I had heard all the trite xtian throwaway lines.

 

Anyway, to the OP... yes, I also deconverted because of the unanswered questions. Not only because they were unanswered but because I was told pointblank, not to ask them. Asking them distracted others from their own belief. My questions were "disruptive". Yep, damned right! They disrupted my spiritual path right out the door.

 

What I continue to find impossible to fathom is why all xtians (okay why all intelligent xtians) aren't asking the same questions? My sister for one. I want to shake her. Why isn't she asking these questions? How can they just step over them? It's just unfathomable to me.

 

Heather

I don't understand it either. I mean I know some people whom I consider a lot smarter than I, and they continue to believe stuff I couldn't as a child. That 'why' is also an unanswered question. Your sister, my sister, my catholic friend and many others....why?

[Abiyoyo]

 

 

Gen 5:1-2

1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

(KJV)

 

 

Gen 5:1-2

1 This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God.

2 He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created.

(NKJ)

 

 

Gen 5:1-2

1 This is the written account of Adam's line. When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God.

2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And when they were created, he called them "man."

(NIV)

 

Man, mankind, species, human race; or Adam the person? If God made them male and female then that would imply that more than one.

[Piprus]

 

 

Gen 5:1-2

1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

(KJV)

 

 

Gen 5:1-2

1 This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God.

2 He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created.

(NKJ)

 

 

Gen 5:1-2

1 This is the written account of Adam's line. When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God.

2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And when they were created, he called them "man."

(NIV)

 

Man, mankind, species, human race; or Adam the person? If God made them male and female then that would imply that more than one.

And what does this ancient fable have to do with anything?

[Grandpa Harley]

Something that is neglected is that ALL the text has multiple meanings... the nature of Hebrew, and later Aramaic, was that one work had many shades of meaning, thus the translators have chosen the meaning that suits their pay masters best...

 

And you're asking Yoyo for some sort of meaning from his eisegetic view of text? Bad move... he makes it up as he goes along, doesn't add anything new and basically gets pissy if you point out Genesis supports incest, male-female rape and child molestation, while also handing out nasty genocides of new borns. but then, he is an idiot...

[R. S. Martin]

 

 

Gen 5:1-2

1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

(KJV)

 

 

Gen 5:1-2

1 This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God.

2 He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created.

(NKJ)

 

 

Gen 5:1-2

1 This is the written account of Adam's line. When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God.

2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And when they were created, he called them "man."

(NIV)

 

Man, mankind, species, human race; or Adam the person? If God made them male and female then that would imply that more than one.

And what does this ancient fable have to do with anything?

 

Excellent question, Piprus. As for the plural, Adam and Eve=two people=plural. That works for the old KJV and Martin Luther German bibles with which I grew up and read as a child. That is the why of the "made he them."

 

This does not account for the many people "out there" where Cain was being exiled to who would kill him. Nor does it provide anyone for him to marry. All it provides is parents for him. He did marry two wives. And, according to the fable, God did provide protection for him, because his grandson or whoever, claimed a double portion of protection--bragged about it to his own wives in his own day. The world got populated way, Way, WAY too fast.

 

I know. My father was the oldest of six kids. I was his oldest. We lived close to his parents. I watched his sibs get married. Then I watched them have kids. I watched the branches of the family spread out. I know how families grow and how the world gets populated one generation at a time.

 

I also saw where his sibs got their mates--it was from OTHER families in the community because there were other families. Now for Cain there were no other families because Adam and Eve was all there were. He had to wait for his mom to have a baby sister for him and then he had to wait for her to grow up.

 

That is not the way the story goes, YoYo, nor are you making allowances for that. You're looking at minor details of words and letters, which are questionable whether these exact words and letters appeared in the original myths. Even if they did, you're avoiding the Big Questions of theology that counted for anything so far as I was concerned. These little inconsistencies in Genesis were just the starting point of the argument for this thread and had nothing to do with my deconversion.

 

Your post does serve as an excellent example of how obsessed some Christians are with explaining away the minor inconsistencies that they never see the Big Issues. They swallow elephants (camels) but strain at tiny fruit flies (gnats). That way they can delude themselves into thinking they answered the questions and that it's our fault that we deconverted when in fact it's not. The religion, and its adherents make claims that raise questions they never answer.

 

These Unanswered Questions remain a major cause for deconversion. You just can't get around that, YoYo. Take it or leave, that's the way the world turns.

[R. S. Martin]

Something that is neglected is that ALL the text has multiple meanings... the nature of Hebrew, and later Aramaic, was that one work had many shades of meaning, thus the translators have chosen the meaning that suits their pay masters best...

 

And you're asking Yoyo for some sort of meaning from his eisegetic view of text? Bad move... he makes it up as he goes along, doesn't add anything new and basically gets pissy if you point out Genesis supports incest, male-female rape and child molestation, while also handing out nasty genocides of new borns. but then, he is an idiot...

 

I figure YoYo has enough getting his/her head around the simple literal meaning of the KJV English text. That's why I didn't bother going into it any deeper. Besides I don't read Hebrew or Aramic. If I did, I would have looked up a few things. Besides, the point of the thread is unanswered questions are a lead cause of deconversion. YoYo seems to think an explanation of the early chapters of Genesis would fix things. Not so.

[Grandpa Harley]

One of the big unanswered questions for me is why we're told that Jesus meant things that couldn't be communicated or even thought in his native tongue... thus my comment is apposite... IMO

[Piprus]

Grandpa wrote:

Bad move... he makes it up as he goes along, doesn't add anything new and basically gets pissy if you point out Genesis supports incest, male-female rape and child molestation, while also handing out nasty genocides of new borns. but then, he is an idiot...

Perhaps so...Open-ended questions posed to christians only invite further convolutions of drivel, in most cases...

[chefranden]

YoYo,

 

I guess I haven't heard that one before. That is probably because if creation happened like you are suggesting, you spoil the forbidden fruit bit. If the forbidden fruit bit is spoiled then the need for a savior is spoiled. If the need for a savior is spoiled, then you don't have a religion. At best you will have to convert to Judaism in order to salvage some of it.

[R. S. Martin]

I don't claim to have the insights of a Grandpa Harley, but Chef, I think that is a smart move.